I don't totally believe that the Thais don't pigeon-hole us, although I do think that they sometimes have a problem.
Where we live, the fact that we teach at a university gives us some kind of status. The kids are told to give us a deep wai - because we're ajarns and, quite frankly, I find it embarrassing sometimes. I once had an old lady almost bent double as she walked by me (I was drinking beer and smoking - considered bad in Thai society). She felt it necessary to have her head lower than mine.
We used to stay in a hotel in Bangkok (Sukhumvit) that didn't have a restaurant. Mr.VS (who always gets up early) used to go just outside to a noodle/coffee stall for a cup of coffee. He was treated with indifference bordering on disdain. The hotel is in walking distance of Nana Plaza. When I finally arrived the coffee was served with a smile, and a totally different attitude.
This may be a delicate subject, because I know that most of the posters on this board are married to Thais, but do you notice that the general response from Thai people changes when you're with your wife? I'm wondering if some Thais haven't quite got to grips with a Falang/Thai relationship.
Just a thought...
VS
Understanding Thailand
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Vital Spark
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I'm a member of two travellers databases on the web who host people from all over the world free of charge. When I stayed in Bangkok, members would meet every now and again for a meal and socialize. I made the mistake of taking my Thai g/f to one of these meetings. Unfortunately there were two Thai couples at this meeting who, while friendly and open to everyone else, simply froze her out. She was subdued the whole evening and I didn't really twig what was going on. Once I did I was pretty upset. The whole point of the group was that it was open to all colours, creeds and incomes. There was a black lady, spanish, german, american and more, at the meeting and the Thais were quite happy to talk with them. But my g/f? Nope. In their eyes I guess she was either low caste or a prostitute.
I have been a member for many years and know the founders of the 'hospitalityclub', so wrote to them of this snubbing and also wrote to the Thai organizer telling them (politely) that if they dared treat her like that again, I would have them banned for acting contrary to the spirit and aims of the organization. The Thai organizer dodged the bullet by not replying and my g/f, in any event, refused to attend again. She knew her place.
I hate, in principle, the idea that anyone is less worthy than anyone else. Unless of course it's some tattoed knucklehead sticking a knife in my ribs or Bush & Cheney who epitomize evil or an unwashed wino with his hand out... or someone in the middle of a nervous breakdown. Or some evangelizing preacher who insists on trying to save my soul or a drunk at the bar... Errr... well. I guess we all have our prejudices after all.
Having a partner who is not acceptable to certain sections of society, when she has been quite wonderful to me, shows that people have different measures of someone's worth. In Thai society, like many societies unless you are educated and connected, you are of little value.
Having had plenty of experience mixing with both rich and poor, I have found the (decent) poor to be far better in almost every way than the self-important wealthy who are so up their own rears they miss out on what's really important in life. The wealthy will ask 'What do you do?' to see if you are suitable to be seen with. While, I've invariably found the poor only too happy to have you into their humble home for a cup of char. In LOS the latter are far more Buddhist in their actions, while the former, having escaped poverty, seem only too pleased to rub your nose in it.
As a businessman in LOS I was treated with great respect everywhere I went. As a guest of a senior policeman in Bangkok and Ching Mai, I was saluted everywhere I went. In general I'm treated with respect by Thais. Partly because I wear a shirt with a collar and partly because they hope to make a quick buck out of me and partly because I am respectful to them.
While some people are able to earn respect, from what I can see in Thailand, if your skin is dark, you are instantly 'Low-So' and if you are with a 'falang', automatically a prostitute. It's not a comfortable thought to realize both you and your partner are being labelled like this. I deal with this by simply seeing those who have such ideas as being the true barbarians.
The way that we see others is drummed into us at an early age. Children are not naturally prejudiced. It seems that in every society, though, the rich/poor divide is alive and well. Maybe because we are taught that material wealth is more important than spiritual wealth. I beg to differ.
Thais, outside Thailand, don't behave the same way they do inside Thailand.
I wonder whether the influence of foreigners, over time, will change Thai attitudes? Instead of constantly showing maids being abused (as if that's the way it's supposed to be) in their TV shows, we can give them Eastenders characters, constantly snarling at each other?
On a more positive note, if it wasn't for the way that Thai society was ordered, there would not be a steady supply of young females eager to be taken out of the poverty trap by foreign knights in shining armour, who don't give a monkey's about how we are supposed to behave.
I have been a member for many years and know the founders of the 'hospitalityclub', so wrote to them of this snubbing and also wrote to the Thai organizer telling them (politely) that if they dared treat her like that again, I would have them banned for acting contrary to the spirit and aims of the organization. The Thai organizer dodged the bullet by not replying and my g/f, in any event, refused to attend again. She knew her place.
I hate, in principle, the idea that anyone is less worthy than anyone else. Unless of course it's some tattoed knucklehead sticking a knife in my ribs or Bush & Cheney who epitomize evil or an unwashed wino with his hand out... or someone in the middle of a nervous breakdown. Or some evangelizing preacher who insists on trying to save my soul or a drunk at the bar... Errr... well. I guess we all have our prejudices after all.
Having a partner who is not acceptable to certain sections of society, when she has been quite wonderful to me, shows that people have different measures of someone's worth. In Thai society, like many societies unless you are educated and connected, you are of little value.
Having had plenty of experience mixing with both rich and poor, I have found the (decent) poor to be far better in almost every way than the self-important wealthy who are so up their own rears they miss out on what's really important in life. The wealthy will ask 'What do you do?' to see if you are suitable to be seen with. While, I've invariably found the poor only too happy to have you into their humble home for a cup of char. In LOS the latter are far more Buddhist in their actions, while the former, having escaped poverty, seem only too pleased to rub your nose in it.
As a businessman in LOS I was treated with great respect everywhere I went. As a guest of a senior policeman in Bangkok and Ching Mai, I was saluted everywhere I went. In general I'm treated with respect by Thais. Partly because I wear a shirt with a collar and partly because they hope to make a quick buck out of me and partly because I am respectful to them.
While some people are able to earn respect, from what I can see in Thailand, if your skin is dark, you are instantly 'Low-So' and if you are with a 'falang', automatically a prostitute. It's not a comfortable thought to realize both you and your partner are being labelled like this. I deal with this by simply seeing those who have such ideas as being the true barbarians.
The way that we see others is drummed into us at an early age. Children are not naturally prejudiced. It seems that in every society, though, the rich/poor divide is alive and well. Maybe because we are taught that material wealth is more important than spiritual wealth. I beg to differ.
Thais, outside Thailand, don't behave the same way they do inside Thailand.
I wonder whether the influence of foreigners, over time, will change Thai attitudes? Instead of constantly showing maids being abused (as if that's the way it's supposed to be) in their TV shows, we can give them Eastenders characters, constantly snarling at each other?
On a more positive note, if it wasn't for the way that Thai society was ordered, there would not be a steady supply of young females eager to be taken out of the poverty trap by foreign knights in shining armour, who don't give a monkey's about how we are supposed to behave.
"Let no one who has the slightest desire to live in peace and quietness be tempted, under any circumstances, to enter upon the chivalrous task of trying to correct a popular error."---William Thoms
Good post MrP, I also think TV is a massive problem here, especially as there are large swathes of society here that are only semi-educated or less, all looking for something to show them how it should be or how to behave or what it's like in the so-called "Hi-so" snooty society. Sometimes it really is unbelievable how shamelessly vicious it is. 
The TV perpetuates the status quo in an almost painfully blatant fashion. If find myself cringing when the wife watches a soap opera and I no longer comment on how flawed it is as she just screws her face up at me and gets the hump.
Surely it can't just be me that experiences that.
The TV perpetuates the status quo in an almost painfully blatant fashion. If find myself cringing when the wife watches a soap opera and I no longer comment on how flawed it is as she just screws her face up at me and gets the hump.
Surely it can't just be me that experiences that.
Resolve dissolves in alcohol
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margaretcarnes
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Understanding Thailand
Hi Faq2mfh - so where does that leave Thai/Farang kids?
With a problem maybe if they live in LOS. The flocking round to hold the baby thing though goes a little further than simply association with all things Thai Soap. Surely it's to do with the perceived higher status of pale skin, which we now know links with Sakdina. The TV celebs of course tend to need the desired pale skin, with the result, it is said, that half Thai people are used increasingly on TV.
Which kind of creates anomalies if you think about it. In order to acquire the pale skin there needs to be interbreeding by Westerners with those same 'lower caste' Thais who would never make it into the media themselves.
And the half Thai babies revered for their colour may well have one parent at least who is considered to be of a lower class.
Are these children suffering identity crises as they grow up in LOS? Are they victimised in some way at school? And if so, would they understand why, or talk about it?
As Steve G says the younger generation are nowhere near as bad. Hopefully schoolchildren are growing up with more liberal attitudes, but is Sakdina actually part of the teaching in schools? Judging by childrens' attitudes towards their teachers maybe there is more to it than just strict discipline.
With a problem maybe if they live in LOS. The flocking round to hold the baby thing though goes a little further than simply association with all things Thai Soap. Surely it's to do with the perceived higher status of pale skin, which we now know links with Sakdina. The TV celebs of course tend to need the desired pale skin, with the result, it is said, that half Thai people are used increasingly on TV.
Which kind of creates anomalies if you think about it. In order to acquire the pale skin there needs to be interbreeding by Westerners with those same 'lower caste' Thais who would never make it into the media themselves.
And the half Thai babies revered for their colour may well have one parent at least who is considered to be of a lower class.
Are these children suffering identity crises as they grow up in LOS? Are they victimised in some way at school? And if so, would they understand why, or talk about it?
As Steve G says the younger generation are nowhere near as bad. Hopefully schoolchildren are growing up with more liberal attitudes, but is Sakdina actually part of the teaching in schools? Judging by childrens' attitudes towards their teachers maybe there is more to it than just strict discipline.
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.