Injury Pensions in UK and incapacity benefits
Injury Pensions in UK and incapacity benefits
There is a rumour going round that in order to receive injury pensions or incapacity benefits signing on monthly in the UK is now required. Is this true or not.
Hornets nest
Ok lets play devils advocate and ask why should someone need to be in The UK to claim incapacity benefits.
If someone genuinely cannot work because of their incapacity, why shouldn't they at least enjoy their life in Thailand and draw the benefits they are entitled to from their own National Insurance contributions, providing there were safeguards in place.
If they were living here they would be responsible for their own health care and wouldn't be a burden on their local NHS trust. I am sure someone will shoot me down in flames, but lets have a debate.
Mags will have a view.
If someone genuinely cannot work because of their incapacity, why shouldn't they at least enjoy their life in Thailand and draw the benefits they are entitled to from their own National Insurance contributions, providing there were safeguards in place.
If they were living here they would be responsible for their own health care and wouldn't be a burden on their local NHS trust. I am sure someone will shoot me down in flames, but lets have a debate.
Mags will have a view.
To be entitled to incapacity benefit you have to score a total of 15 points from either one particular Descriptor or a combined total of 15 points from a combination thereof.
Speech
Descriptor Points
a Cannot speak 15
b Speech cannot be understood by family or friends 15
c Speech cannot be understood by strangers 15
d Strangers have great difficulty understanding speech 10
e Strangers have some difficulty understanding speech 8
f No problem with speech 0
Given the above Descriptor I'm sure most ex-pats qualify for benefit whilst in Thailand
Reading some of the other Descriptors is better than an episode of "Fools and Horses".
Speech
Descriptor Points
a Cannot speak 15
b Speech cannot be understood by family or friends 15
c Speech cannot be understood by strangers 15
d Strangers have great difficulty understanding speech 10
e Strangers have some difficulty understanding speech 8
f No problem with speech 0
Given the above Descriptor I'm sure most ex-pats qualify for benefit whilst in Thailand
Reading some of the other Descriptors is better than an episode of "Fools and Horses".
It's not only that, I believe that nice Mr Brown is introducing a 'Get the lazy gits back to work' policy. That means that if you have a bad back, they'll find you work that doesn't involve straining your back. If you've got a bad leg, they'll find you work that doesn't involve walking etc etc etc.
Your lazy days are numbered
Your lazy days are numbered
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd 
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
I feel quite strongley about this, i have a poor eductation but in Southampton i have never been unemployed, i worked as a chain boy on buildings sites (Hythe marina) and later i was i drivers mate in a small haulage and removals company, i worked very hard and gained a lot of respect, at 21 my boss paid for my class one .
From there i was very privlaged to drive juggernuts at 21 years old the normal standard is 25 years old because of insurence.
I done that for three years before going into the docks and from there i have done allmost 15 years and 12 of them driving the fast's cranes in the U.K and our newest cranes in the U.K.
If i can come from basic beginings any one can, and one thing i am very proud of is i have never been on the dole,and i have made far more than my mate Paul who is my Nat West bank manager.
I have mates with kids and other issues, on the sick and they have more money than me on a Friday night, working the social without a care in the world, and yes it does piss me right off.
Kendo.
From there i was very privlaged to drive juggernuts at 21 years old the normal standard is 25 years old because of insurence.
I done that for three years before going into the docks and from there i have done allmost 15 years and 12 of them driving the fast's cranes in the U.K and our newest cranes in the U.K.
If i can come from basic beginings any one can, and one thing i am very proud of is i have never been on the dole,and i have made far more than my mate Paul who is my Nat West bank manager.
I have mates with kids and other issues, on the sick and they have more money than me on a Friday night, working the social without a care in the world, and yes it does piss me right off.
Kendo.
Last edited by kendo on Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Is Bangkok a place or a nasty injury.......Eric Morcombe.
Proud to be a Southampton FC Fan.
Proud to be a Southampton FC Fan.
Well, its a little disappointing that some assume that everyone in receipt of such benefits is some sort of scam artist! I don't believe that the case.
Many genuine folk who have worked hard all their lives do fall on hard times and rely on such payments.
On saying that, the Thatcher Govt. did use it as an alternative to folk claiming as unemployed, to keep the numbers down. But that was a long time ago.
Now? A different group of scammers are milking the system. The bottom line is that it is too easy to get such benefits in the first place and ongoing, regular/annual tests are currently limited. From my experience and knowledge all such talk of getting tough is PR bullshit. I could give chapter and verse on many scams, but won't. Its just truly amazing how many folk in the UK are victims of torture, but live a good lifestyle, unavailable to many, courtesy of HMG.
Many genuine folk who have worked hard all their lives do fall on hard times and rely on such payments.
On saying that, the Thatcher Govt. did use it as an alternative to folk claiming as unemployed, to keep the numbers down. But that was a long time ago.
Now? A different group of scammers are milking the system. The bottom line is that it is too easy to get such benefits in the first place and ongoing, regular/annual tests are currently limited. From my experience and knowledge all such talk of getting tough is PR bullshit. I could give chapter and verse on many scams, but won't. Its just truly amazing how many folk in the UK are victims of torture, but live a good lifestyle, unavailable to many, courtesy of HMG.
Talk is cheap
You're probably right - I think I met him 18 months ago. However, there are a lot of scam artists out there.caller wrote:Well, its a little disappointing that some assume that everyone in receipt of such benefits is some sort of scam artist! I don't believe that the case.
Like Kendo, I was dragged up in the Swilly area of Plymouth. The only 2 people who went to work legally in my street were my father and I. This state of affairs was reflected in many parts of the estate. How many similar estates are there in the UK?
How many of these lazy gits have escaped to Thailand subsidised by my hard earned taxes?
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
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redzonerocker
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Re: Injury Pensions in UK and incapacity benefits
lets hope it's true & that there are more stringent medical checks introduced too.Colinbs wrote:There is a rumour going round that in order to receive injury pensions or incapacity benefits signing on monthly in the UK is now required. Is this true or not.
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
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margaretcarnes
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Injury Pensions in UK and Incapacity Benefit
OK Governor here we go (again!)
First - 'Injuries Benefit' I presume means Industrial Injuries Disability Benefit? Or IIDB. Which is a percentage rated compensatory benefit introduced long ago before people routinely claimed civil compensation.
It works by awarding a fixed percentage disability for each of a prescribed list of injuries. X percent for loss of an eye. X percent for loss of a leg etc. The total percentage has to reach 75 (then for some reason is rounded up to 80 percent) to qualify for full IIDB.
Apart from an initial medical assessment there is no need to satisfy further medical examinations once the benefit is awarded. Which makes sense - as people are unlikely to grow a new leg for example.
IMHO it is a very under publicised benefit, and the take up of claims is probably much less than it could be.
Incapacity Benefit on the other hand no longer exists for new claimants. Last November it changed to Employment and Support Allowance. So anyone claiming from November is on ESA. The Governments intent is to call every ESA claimant for a medical after 8 weeks. The medical is not the same as for the old Incapacity Benefit (IB) and sorry Nanyang - the 15 points and the descriptors are no longer the same.
The ESA medical aims to find out what work a person may be able to do. The old IB medical aimed to prove that they were fit for work.
Subtle difference - and one which I personally believe is sensible, and more in line with other EU countries. If it works!
And there lies a problem, because almost as soon as ESA was introduced we entered a recession.
As for monthly signing on for ESA claimants - not true. Perhaps more regular Jobcentre attendance for some, depending on how much help they are assessed as needing, but that would be with a Disability Employment Advisor (who will often discover that in fact the claimant needs extra benefits such as DLA, and refer them to me!)
Yes, ESA can be claimed while abroad, for a limited period. But the confusion arises because it is based on National Insurance contributions. IF the claimant doesn't qualify due to insufficient contributions, and IF they qualify for Income Support, they will receive Income Support instead (but subject to ESA medicals etc.) And Income Support cannot be claimed while abroad.
So - while there do seem to be a lot of 'fraudulent' claims it is important to remember that there are also people who cannot qualify for either ESA or for the substitute Income Support, despite being genuinely unfit for work. There are also people on long term sick who don't even receive all the benefits to which they are entitled.
Claims are also dependant upon the claimants GP continuing to sign them off sick, and yet the GPs opinion is largely disregarded by ESA medical examiners. (Who by the way don't even work for the DWP any more. The work is contracted out.)
The new ESA conditions and scaremongering have, I know, caused a great deal of distress to many genuinely ill people, but you'll just have to trust me on that.
Finally, in case anyone asks, the other main disability benefit (apart from DLA) has been stopped altogether. It was Severe Disablement Allowance. Existing claimants continue to be paid, but new claims can no longer be made. Considering that SDA was once the main support for people with illnesses and disabilites such as cerebral palsy, motor neurone disease, paraplegia etc it should be pretty clear where I stand on disability benefits!
But on the plus side the Government has finally agreed to allow SOME blind people to qualify for DLA High Rate Mobility - but only from 2011.
No doubt Thailand will then be swamped by blind people travelling on their extra 30 quid a week.
First - 'Injuries Benefit' I presume means Industrial Injuries Disability Benefit? Or IIDB. Which is a percentage rated compensatory benefit introduced long ago before people routinely claimed civil compensation.
It works by awarding a fixed percentage disability for each of a prescribed list of injuries. X percent for loss of an eye. X percent for loss of a leg etc. The total percentage has to reach 75 (then for some reason is rounded up to 80 percent) to qualify for full IIDB.
Apart from an initial medical assessment there is no need to satisfy further medical examinations once the benefit is awarded. Which makes sense - as people are unlikely to grow a new leg for example.
IMHO it is a very under publicised benefit, and the take up of claims is probably much less than it could be.
Incapacity Benefit on the other hand no longer exists for new claimants. Last November it changed to Employment and Support Allowance. So anyone claiming from November is on ESA. The Governments intent is to call every ESA claimant for a medical after 8 weeks. The medical is not the same as for the old Incapacity Benefit (IB) and sorry Nanyang - the 15 points and the descriptors are no longer the same.
The ESA medical aims to find out what work a person may be able to do. The old IB medical aimed to prove that they were fit for work.
Subtle difference - and one which I personally believe is sensible, and more in line with other EU countries. If it works!
And there lies a problem, because almost as soon as ESA was introduced we entered a recession.
As for monthly signing on for ESA claimants - not true. Perhaps more regular Jobcentre attendance for some, depending on how much help they are assessed as needing, but that would be with a Disability Employment Advisor (who will often discover that in fact the claimant needs extra benefits such as DLA, and refer them to me!)
Yes, ESA can be claimed while abroad, for a limited period. But the confusion arises because it is based on National Insurance contributions. IF the claimant doesn't qualify due to insufficient contributions, and IF they qualify for Income Support, they will receive Income Support instead (but subject to ESA medicals etc.) And Income Support cannot be claimed while abroad.
So - while there do seem to be a lot of 'fraudulent' claims it is important to remember that there are also people who cannot qualify for either ESA or for the substitute Income Support, despite being genuinely unfit for work. There are also people on long term sick who don't even receive all the benefits to which they are entitled.
Claims are also dependant upon the claimants GP continuing to sign them off sick, and yet the GPs opinion is largely disregarded by ESA medical examiners. (Who by the way don't even work for the DWP any more. The work is contracted out.)
The new ESA conditions and scaremongering have, I know, caused a great deal of distress to many genuinely ill people, but you'll just have to trust me on that.
Finally, in case anyone asks, the other main disability benefit (apart from DLA) has been stopped altogether. It was Severe Disablement Allowance. Existing claimants continue to be paid, but new claims can no longer be made. Considering that SDA was once the main support for people with illnesses and disabilites such as cerebral palsy, motor neurone disease, paraplegia etc it should be pretty clear where I stand on disability benefits!
But on the plus side the Government has finally agreed to allow SOME blind people to qualify for DLA High Rate Mobility - but only from 2011.
No doubt Thailand will then be swamped by blind people travelling on their extra 30 quid a week.
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
Very interesting post by Mags. Change any rule and x % are disqualified, another x % are in. The whole system needs a radical overhaul with simplified rules.
By the by, the benefit scammers in the UK are put in the shade by their US brethren. As in many things, what happens there is bigger and better than most. In many states, they've been using biometrics to deal with the issues since the early 90's at the latest. Can't imagine why we still haven't copied that?
By the by, the benefit scammers in the UK are put in the shade by their US brethren. As in many things, what happens there is bigger and better than most. In many states, they've been using biometrics to deal with the issues since the early 90's at the latest. Can't imagine why we still haven't copied that?
Talk is cheap