What would you do- your suggestions ?

[kendo]

Ask him to e-mail you the accounts from last year also remind him that any so called association is supposed to have an AGM and the books should be transparent for all members to see.

He sounds like a bully to me how can your water bills be estimated when your not even living there his useage must be far higher than yours.

I think you should take photos of his handy bit of plumbing and also keep a diary of every little run in you have with him just incase things get really serious you will have some hard evidence, i advised another member to put covert CCTV on there house and for them things could have been a lot different know but enough of that.

I also think a few words in his shell from a high ranking copper along the lines of " if you are causing problems on this soi, i can make you a bigger one"

Just my opinion Sam i dont like bully's but love to see them come crumbling down to earth.

Kendo.

[Takiap]

The best advice I can give is for you to come around and tamper with my water meter, etc. because that way you'll find out first hand what I would do

Let's just say there's no way I would ever consider being manipulated by some idiot on a power trip. No' I don't like stoking fires and for the most part I simply let things go but having said that, there are certain things you can't simply take without putting up a fight.

Good luck anyway
S

[malcolminthemiddle]

A few questions for Sam.

You say that the two wells were handed over by the developer last August and are equally owned by all 19 house holds.

1. Is there any written record of the handover from the developer to the residents and if so does this record describe exactly what is being handed over such as common areas, wells etc and to who? Who signed on behalf of the residents? A copy of the hand over without disclosing confidential information would be helpful.
2. Where exactly within the development are the wells and pump(s) located and who owns the land on which the wells have been drilled and the pump(s) sit.
3. Can you describe the water supply system and how the water is supplied to each house hold after leaving the well. For example does the piping feed from the wells cross any private land before reaching any residence?
4. What is your relationship with the developer contractual or otherwise? Could the developer be called upon to mediate? It was the developer who handed over the wells on the belief (may well be a condition of hand over) that the wells would be available to all residents. It may also be the case that the unilateral action of the “treasurer” has placed the developer in breach of a contractual obligation to provide water to your house?

[malcolminthemiddle]

But why don't developers themselves make some kind of provision for a legal management company, as they do in places like Condo Chain?

Hi Mags, Malcolm posted about the 'Homeowners Association'. The situation is that a law was introduced way back when allowing the residents to form their own association after more than 50% of the properties are sold, or after 3 years, whichever is earlier. The developer can not prevent this and is even bound by the association's rules and pay fees for his unsold plots.
It was introduced to actually protect the consumers and give them the right to manage the estate, prior to this Thai developers (maybe farang one's too!?) were setting up the management company, over-charging and under-servicing. In this case it has not been set-up correctly.

SJ

SJ

Could you kindly direct me to a source confirming the 3 year option? I wasn't aware of that.

Many thanks.

[Super Joe]

Hi Malcolm,

I read it in an article published by Werachon Law Office in the Pattaya newspaper (can't provide link), here's an extract of the article:

How to set up the Juristic Person Homeowners Association?
In the beginning, the developer will be responsible for the management of the community in the project. In this connection, buyers will be asked to pay for two or three years of the maintenance fees. After half of the houses in the project have been sold, the owners can join together to register the Nitibukon Moobaan Jadsan of Juristic Person Homeowners Association. After the Juristic Person Homeowners Association has been set up, even the developer will have to pay for the common maintenance fees for the unsold houses in the project. This is the reason why some unethical developers will not happy if the homeowners try to set up the juristic person association.

SJ

[margaretcarnes]

Hmmmm - thanks SJ for an interesting point on the Associations settup. Malcolminthemiddle queries it though - and reading the legal interpretation which you have kindly posted I can see why.
It really looks as if homeowners can be allowed to pay into a management assn. straight away BUT by paying 2 or 3 years up front. Then becoming a true juristic assn. after 50% of the properties are sold.
Am I interpreting this correctly? If so, despite any intent to protect the buyers, it seems possible that if the 50% sales aren't achieved theres a potential 'black hole of cash' situation?
Just a thought.

[Super Joe]

Hi Mags,
It's an article written by a Thai lawyer, so maybe not as crystal clear as we may have wrote it. There's no requirement for the residents to pay 2 or 3 years upfront in advance but just for that period of time if they have not formed their own association for whatever reason.
I've read that after that period the developer can continue if they want him to, or he has to pass it over to a.n.other Juristic body/management company if he does not want to continue, but he can't just abandon it.

SJ

[malcolminthemiddle]

My understanding is the payment of maintenance fees to the developer in advance is unrelated to the establishment of an Homeowners Association.

[thaiorchid]

Sam.
Had originally decided not to get further involved in this mess, but your "genuine question" part melted my heart of stone. As I mentioned in my first post, I do not know if you are the good guy or not ? But let us presume that you are.
Where to go from here? As I guess you have realized the courtroute is both a waste of money and time, and would probably make future neighbour relations even worse. And the stupid (and very english) suggestions about playing hardball and or bring along a bat, well I hope you are to smart for that.
The guys in uniform then. Half of this country is in uniform often without any power or influence whatsoever. So unless you are a personal friend of the chief of police in HH, forget it!! Quite interessting to see a few posters suggesting teamoney, so curruption is OK, if it is working for you ?
Municipality water ? The problem is -apart from your neighbour- YOU DO NOT EXIST !! Takes a little explanation:
For the last couple of weeks workers from tessabahn has been cutting cement in soi 56 and soi 41, for new waterpipes. Both sois have perfectly working municipality water for at least 10 years, never any shortages or problems. The new pipes were for nice red fireposts. Asking my thai wife, why the money "wasted" here, were not spent on supplying some of the waterless projects with nam-papa. The answer was very simple: No one lives there. In most projects the plots are either own by proxycompanies or are leased, meaning no BLUE BOOKS (houseregistretion). So on the map on the mayors wall your project is still a pinapplefield. And pinapples cannot vote. Where do you think your local MP would spend his budget ?
Abdullahstreet or Hyde Park ? This is not even a antifarang thing. All staff from Isaan working and living here, they can not use the free healthcare, they can not vote here, in both cases they have to go back home to Surin, Buriram or Roi Et, Because they do not have an adress here.
So I do not agree with SJ s :The watercompany refuse to serve developments saying it would be to much of a drain of their mains. Why should they supply tapwater to a field ?
What I am trying to say with all this, we have to remember, we are the Abdullahs and Mohammeds in this country, and infighting does most certainly not help us.
So I agree with WL, you need to extend to olivebranch (even if you have to swallow). The first step IMO would be to join the association pay their fees in advance covering the time until you are in HH next time. Just tell you have reconsidered and realized it is a good thing that the permanent residents take care of your development. Being a member will put you on the mailinglist, and you can find out if the assosiation is registrered or not.
At X-mas when I suppose most people are in their houses you can go forward and call a meeting to decide how the committee working on everybodys behalf should be chosen, and who they responsible to. Even if you really dislike Mr treasurer, sit down and listen to him with an open mind. Look forward.
It is now 1:36 AM and my english is getting worse and worse.
So goodnight and good luck.

[Super Joe]

So I do not agree with SJ s :The watercompany refuse to serve developments saying it would be to much of a drain of their mains. Why should they supply tapwater to a field ?

The electricity company, TOT, TT&T and cable TV provide permanent supplies to these 'fields' okay
In fact it was the opposite of what you say, they DID connect a tap and temporary water meter to it but ONLY when it was a field, ie: at the very start of the development for construction works, that's standard practice. The electric company does the same until such time as the project is ready for the permanent electric installation.
We've built 3 projects there, my friend 2, a big developer has over 100 units well underway, plus there's a few other new projects dotted around the immediate area, and we all got the same answer. I was standing there when they said it to my wife, and have had to put in 5no. wells so far.
If you know the area it's where the Queen owns untold Rai's of land which she subsidises for the local farmers to use, near the new house she is having built on way to Black Mountain. The subsidised farm land has miles of modern irrigation pipework that has to be supplied, plus the local Poo Yai Bahn and other officials there have strict responsibilities for the management of the general area due to Royaly, plus it's located on one of the higher points of Hua Hin

I do believe though that even if the water was strong enough they would still have said no, let the farangs pay and supply their own well water for a development. They made us put a new 6m wide concrete road on the old government owned 4.5m wide dirt track, ie: outside of our land. And run a 24inch concrete drain, again on the government road over half a kilometer to the local klong. They just do what they want and you follow if you want building permits and other certification.
It's not down in town where the supply is stronger with larger pipes, it's outside the Tessabahn area and under the Opordor.

Cheers,

SJ

[bozzman101]

lets here from the other side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
no mention of the meeting requested by sam when 8 residents attended called by her in her house after trying to explain how the water fills from house to house
this your irate husband could not understand
no mention of you leaving the meeting going into a bed room and not coming back out at that stage your husband was foaming at the mouth shouting i dont want to be a member of the coummity we all left then
he wanted keys for the boxes of the pumps so he could turn them on willy nilly!!!
he bent the doors on the boxes no other person living here has done this!!!! all meeetings have been recorded the puya bann has been in formed in thai of whats is going on here
this is just a brief outline

[stgrhe]

It is always very interesting to hear both sides in a dispute. People blaming others on forums have, IMO, often very difficulty in seeing things objectively.

Why not involve a neutral and trusted umpire to whom both side's version of the story could be addressed and try to solve the issue that way. Disputes are always better solved amicably.

[richard]

Hear Hear STG

Maybe get some of the other residents involved too

[Treasurer]

SAM - Complaining about something you don't like, or you think is unfair is one thing but doing it and getting the facts completely wrong is unforgiveable.
First you were included in membership of the association along with everyone else. It was your husband who put a spanner in the works, first by breaking into locked control boxes, then by threatening me with physical violence and finally by stating in no uncertain terms, in front of witnesses, that he/you wanted nothing at all to do with our ***** association. All members were informed of these facts at the time and agreed by a large majority to accept your wishes not to be involved.
Further;
1. Our association is headed by a Thai person. But, not yet registered as we have in the past had no reason to do so. That may have to change.
2. All suggestions/recommendations are reviewed by a committee of members who are resident in Thailand and then put to all members for endorsement/rejection.
3. Only proposals, agreed by a majority of members are implemented.
4. The roads etc. have not been handed over to the Tessabahn, nor are they likely to be in the foreseeable future.
The association now includes all homes on our little estate (village) except for yourselves, and I continue to receive the support of all the members. You are told in every message that you receive from me that I am acting on behalf of the members and not acting on my own behalf. You, however, for what ever reason, choose to make this a personal vendetta. I do hope that you seriously think about what you are doing and listen to reason. I, on my part, will continue to serve the association and represent their wishes for so long as I have the support of the majority of owners.
For your information, our water rates are amongst the lowest in the area and our ability to provide a constant supply one of the best. And, yes we have installed water meters, in order that costs for water usage more fairly matches individual usage. What is your problem with that?

[Super Joe]

4. The roads etc. have not been handed over to the Tessabahn, nor are they likely to be in the foreseeable future.

The roads were transfered to the Tessabahn at the land office about 2 years ago.

SJ