UK Pensioners in Thailand miss inflation adjustment

[bapak]

There is a long article in today's Bangkok Post Business Section - "UK Pensioners in Thailand miss inflation adjustment" - To long to post here. If you do not have access to the Bangkok Post, email me at bapakdon at gmail.com and I will send you a PDF copy. Please put "UK Pensioners" in the subject line of your email.

[Lev]

Why not make it easy for everyone and just post the link to the article?

http://bangkokpost.com/business/economi ... adjustment

[PJG]

It has been the case for some time that if you retire abroad your UK old age pension remains at the level it was you when retired abroad. There are some exceptions to this where the UK has some sort of pension arrangement with the country you retire to.

At the moment if you retire to Thailand and declare the fact the pension is frozen at the retirement date. I believe the only way to get the inflation linked increases is to retire but not officially to Thailand.In this instance I am talking about the UK state retirement pension not a private pension.

I believe that there are moves afoot for this to be changed.

[bapak]

Why not make it easy for everyone and just post the link to the article?

http://bangkokpost.com/business/economi ... adjustment

Thanks, Lev, for relieving me of the burden. Bapak

[Governor]

At the moment if you retire to Thailand and declare the fact the pension is frozen at the retirement date. I believe the only way to get the inflation linked increases is to retire but not officially to Thailand.

I believe that there are moves afoot for this to be changed.

Not declaring you have retired to Thailand could land you in serious travel if caught, and a number of people have been.

The "moves afoot" have been going on for years without success, a case was recently rejected in The House of Lords with a further case being heard in The European Court of Human Rights, a result there is expected in March or April 2010.

Bizarrely increases are paid to pensioners in The Philippines but not Thailand, The USA but not Canada.

I wouldn't hold your breath for any government to increase pensions, it would cost too much money which they simply don't have, they are too busy paying out child support to the children of immigrant workers from the EU whose children remain in their own countries.

Also the plight of us hard done pensioners is of no concern for the majority of UK residents, so an uplift would hardly be a vote winner.

[margaretcarnes]

With one exception here Governor!
As you know I was hoping for the law to be changed with regard to ALL UK pensioners abroad. Sadly it drags on. Equality it seems applies only within this dark, damp and dreary isle.

(Well, it IS November )

[Governor]

Mags

You might be in that dark, damp and dreary isle that many call home, but at least you will be able to enjoy a traditional Christmas, assuming you are there then, I on the other hand will have to make do with sitting on the beach worrying about my pension.

In a previous life I recall dealing with a number of ex-pats who were thought to be leaving Zimbabwe, for a number of reasons, ministers were worried that there would be an influx to the UK, even Prince Charles became involved. In the end those that did leave Zimbabwe didn't return to the UK but left for neighbouring states, the consensus seemed to be, and was actually said to me, "why would we want to go to mud island". Pretty much off topic, but it has always stuck in my mind.

[caller]

Govener, But on the other hand, many from South Africa have made the UK their home.

But you are right about UK pensioners abroad, out of sight, out of mind, apart from abuse and future plans will put an end to that.

But I share your view, we pay Poles working in the UK, child benefit for their sprogs living in Poland. If working in Poland, they would only qualify for a quarter of what they can claim here, so why don't we pay the rate paid in Poland? EU law determining that we have to pay anything in the first place.

Of course, as is stated elsewhere, the Brits can go and work there, but as salaries are less than what is on offer in the UK, as is the payment of child benefit, its no surprise that Poles prefer to come to the UK instead, so the UK pays approx 52 million sterling in child benefit to Polish kids, of Polish offspring, living is Poland (conservative costs).

How many of you with British offspring living in LOS can claim the same?

Bitchy, I know.

[margaretcarnes]

Just to add to Governors' post about the recent court case (and yes Gov - I feel for you on that beach. But will get by with my Lidl goose at Chrissy and think of you all!)
Anyway - the following update from October issue of Welfare Rights Bulletin, by the Child Poverty Action Group:

'Pension Uprating Chalenge. The challenge to the 'freezing' of state retirement pensions paid to claimants living in certain other countries continues. In November 2008, in the decision in Carson and Ors v The United Kingdom (2008) ECHR 1194, the European Court of Human Rights held that the position under which claimants living in countries with which the UK had no reciprocal agreements had their retirement pension 'frozen' at the rate it was at when they left the UK, was not unlawful. However on 2 September the Court held a further hearing of the case by the Grand Chamber.
The decision is awaited.'

As you say it could be months yet before another decision. I'm loath to pre judge the outcome. On the plus side at least the case has been re-opened, but realistically the ECHR will probably only be concerned about it's own backyard, ie European countries. But to be truly equal they should surely consider how other EU countries themselves treat their own pensioners abroad? And apply the most common of the (no doubt various) regulations on this.
So it drags on.

[PET]

Mags you have made a very good point and one that I had not considered before ie How do other EU countries treat pension payments when their citizens are living in such countries as Thailand.

It would be very interesting to hear from such members on this point, or from others who have the answers?

[pitsch]

Switzerland is no EU-country, but inflation adjustements are given to the pensioner for government and private pensions. Also no tax is deducted from the pension.

[K2OWN]

Same Old Same Old Rip Off Britain

[Governor]

Interesting to learn that Switzerland uplifts the pensions, any others?

Of course my meagre Civil Service Pension receives an uplift, though not next year, but not the state pension - though I don't get that for a few years yet.

I still pay UK tax on my Civil Service Pension and will of course on my State Pension.

Not even a Lidl goose for me Mags, will have to do with turkey breast in my halogen oven and some home made bread sauce.

[Norseman]

I've never heard anything else that all the Nordic countries are uplifting the pensions to keep up with the normal wage increases in the society.
At least this is the way it is in Norway, and it doesn't matter where you live.
And we do pay taxes as a pensioner, and we're good at it!!

If UK pensions are kept at the same level for years to come I guess you can say you soon will go bankrupt and it can't be true?

[Governor]

If UK pensions are kept at the same level for years to come I guess you can say you soon will go bankrupt and it can't be true?

Not sure if we would go bankrupt as we have the option of returning to The UK, receiving the full pension entitlement and all the other allowances such as the heating allowance and generally being a burden on the state.