Scared of Doctors, or just you being you?

[PeteC]

I kamoy Ken's post from a different thread:

....I have always used Bangkok Pattaya Hospital for my annual medical check ups which I have every five or so years.....

Same with me and many other men I know concerning the 5+ years.

No problem going when you feel there is a problem, but I really resist in the strongest way when a doctor tells me at my age I should be admitted and undergo dozens of tests to see what they find, if anything.

If by the time you reach 55 and you don't know your own body and the signals it gives to you, no hope. However, many signs are simply aches and pains you acquire though aging. If something more than that you'll know it straight away and should get it checked out.

Of course there are the silent killers; blood pressure, cancer until the later stages etc. If you catch it early, great. If you don't, what quality of life do you want to have over a prolonged period of treatment, or a short period of being yourself and going out gracefully?

Not easy questions, but questions we'll all have to answer in our minds sooner or later. Pete

[Super Joe]

....I have always used Bangkok Pattaya Hospital for my annual medical check ups which I have every five or so years.....

Same with me and many other men I know concerning the 5+ years.

Couldn't agree more, me and missus have done one at Samitivej Hospital (Part of the Bangkok Hospital Group chain), first class facilities and doctors IMO, doctors and specialists have all trained and qualified in places like US, Aus, UK, Germany etc.

They do 3no. 'wellness packages' for men and women, the top one being a reasonable 13,000 Baht. Not sure about every 5 years, heard people say it should be about every 2 years, but I don't really know what's right.

Below is the Samitivej men's one, you get a 50 odd page booklet with all your results, and it CAN detect various cancers.
Examples:
1) My abdominal ultrasound test detected a potential lump on my kidney, but further tests (all done the same day, no coming back at a later date and worrying yourself to death) found it to be scar tissue rather than a lump.
2) Wife's wellness test detected 2no. lumps in her, but again luckily both tested ok.
Basically what I'm saying is their wellness checks can possibly save your life, they don't just get you to run on a treadmill and look in your ears for bees-wax. All the equipment was Siemens or GEC and all new state-of-the-art, I kid you not. One of the tests is your Uric Acid level's (Gout), could make the difference and prevent you from developing pain crippling gout in later years.

Thank god these people are currently building a hospital in Hua Hin (see other thread).



The other main advantage I find with 'Samitivej Sukhumvit Hospital' is it's a lot closer to Soi Cowboy than the others ...... location, location, location. There's nothing like being given the all clear for the past 4 decades, only to risk it all again over the next 4 hours

SJ

[Super Joe]

No problem going when you feel there is a problem, but I really resist in the strongest way when a doctor tells me at my age I should be admitted and undergo dozens of tests to see what they find, if anything.

If by the time you reach 55 and you don't know your own body and the signals it gives to you, no hope. However, many signs are simply aches and pains you acquire though aging. If something more than that you'll know it straight away and should get it checked out.

Of course there are the silent killers; blood pressure, cancer until the later stages etc. If you catch it early, great. If you don't, what quality of life do you want to have over a prolonged period of treatment, or a short period of being yourself and going out gracefully?

Not easy questions, but questions we'll all have to answer in our minds sooner or later. Pete

Not sure I agree about the knowing your own body and feeling the symptoms Pete, but your comment about the 'silent killers' is key and sure you have to draw a line somewhere under what tests they're suggesting you undertake. Used the BHG a lot now, did the full baby process with them so have had about 15 visits, honestly never felt at any time they were recommending anything that wasn't needed from a revenue building point of view.

One of the Samitivej hosptals (I'm beginnning to sound like I work for their PR department now) has an extensive cancer department, which can potentially save lives through early detection: http://www.samitivejhospitals.com/Medic ... rviceId=78

and here's some info on their 'Internal Medicine' services, which could be beneficial with early detection etc, gotta be a better option than chowing down on some stinging nettles coated in urine from a buffalo suffering with galloping-knob-rot: http://www.samitivejhospitals.com/Medic ... viceId=132

The Bangkok Hospital Group are one of these medical tourism thingymajigs, people fly in from all around Asia to use their facilities. Reckon we're fortunate to be thousand's of miles from the 'developed West', but have affordable world class medical facilities a few hours drive away. Just a pity we've only a 50/50 chance of surviving the road trip getting there

Good thread Pete

SJ

[Chas]

One of the silent killers that you need to have checked out around age 55 if not earlier and at least every five years after that is colon cancer.

No symptoms until too late.

Colonoscopy is the procedure usually used. It is both painless and thorough. (I have had at least a half dozen of these both here and in the states and I usually sleep through the whole thing.) They will even give you a copy of the tour on CD if you ask for it. Worst part is drinking the flushing liquid.

This checkup can mean the difference between life and death.

[richard]

Had a colonoscopy at the Bumrungrad 5 years ago. Resisted several times but finally went for it. Very reassuring when you are cleared and guided through your video.

no pain and didnt think they had done it until they showed me the video

[hhfarang]

I had one when I turned 50 (as recommended) and it hurt like hell! I thought the guy was cutting my guts out. He gave me somethng to make me woozy before but I was awake and in severe pain during the procedure.

It was clean though, no polyps so it's been ten years and I haven't had another one. If I do it again I'll have them put me to sleep!

[margaretcarnes]

Here in the UK there is still no routine screening for testicular cancer. Unlike the automatic 3 yearly calls to mammogram for women of a certain age - there's finally talk of doing the same for men and their private bits!
They have to want to go though. At the moment this is a depressing subject for me, as a good friends hubby is due to have an op to remove bladder and prostate, following other smaller ops over a few years. He has already waited since September for a date. Over 3 months of stress, weakness, fatigue, bleeding, and now back pain, and will of course end up at best with a bag for life! (excuse the pun) and probably needing a lot of care.
So much for our wonderful NHS. In LOS you have access to some excellent preventative medicine. OK - at a cost. But please use it guys.

[migrant]

If I do it again I'll have them put me to sleep!

I had my first 2 years ago, asleep, and like Richard, I woke up not even aware it was done.

The prep work is the worst (read cleanse)

[Super Joe]

I had one when I turned 50 (as recommended) and it hurt like hell! I thought the guy was cutting my guts out. He gave me somethng to make me woozy before but I was awake and in severe pain during the procedure.

It was clean though, no polyps so it's been ten years and I haven't had another one. If I do it again I'll have them put me to sleep!

There's a new technique now 'Virtual CT Colonoscopy' (computerised tomography), no camera insertion, no sedation, much quicker and you get up and walk out to carry on normal daily routine. There's advantages and disadvantages with it which people need to weigh up such as x-ray radiation, although this is 'alleged' by medical profession to be in harmless range. Others disagree.

Bangkok hospitals do it for 9,000 Baht, is that about half the cost of the traditional method ? Not sure, never done one but read it's 24,000'ish Baht.

SJ

[JoeDoc]

Here in the UK there is still no routine screening for testicular cancer. Unlike the automatic 3 yearly calls to mammogram for women of a certain age - there's finally talk of doing the same for men and their private bits!
They have to want to go though. At the moment this is a depressing subject for me, as a good friends hubby is due to have an op to remove bladder and prostate, following other smaller ops over a few years. He has already waited since September for a date. Over 3 months of stress, weakness, fatigue, bleeding, and now back pain, and will of course end up at best with a bag for life! (excuse the pun) and probably needing a lot of care.
So much for our wonderful NHS. In LOS you have access to some excellent preventative medicine. OK - at a cost. But please use it guys.

There are recent studies which claim any benefit of early tumor detection using mammograms in young women is offset by the potential risk of radiation-induced cancer. I've read mammograms actually cause cancer. Apparently, if a woman starts using mammograms at an early age it may be sadly ironic that a mammogram detects cancer later down the line that was actually caused by the mammogram. Anyone wishing to research this further only need to google 'mammograms cause cancer'.

[margaretcarnes]

Yes I can understand those concerns JoeDoc. If xrays were totally safe the technicians wouldn't scurry away and hide behind screens! But we do only get routine mammograms offered 'from a certain age'.
On the other hand we never seem to question - or doubt - the now routine use of dental xrays, which puzzles me. Change dentist - get full xrays done again. I think overall any xrays are a necessary evil. For routine, usually age determined, checks people do have a choice. The problem at the moment is that men aren't offered that choice by the NHS.

[Super Joe]

Yes I can understand those concerns JoeDoc. If xrays were totally safe the technicians wouldn't scurry away and hide behind screens! But we do only get routine mammograms offered 'from a certain age'.
On the other hand we never seem to question - or doubt - the now routine use of dental xrays, which puzzles me. Change dentist - get full xrays done again. I think overall any xrays are a necessary evil. For routine, usually age determined, checks people do have a choice. The problem at the moment is that men aren't offered that choice by the NHS.

Re: Breast Cancer - a couple of years back the NHS introduced a new program to implement 'Digital Mammogram' units, the latest advanced technology in breast screening. Digital mammography replaces the x-ray film of conventional mammogram with digital images captured on a computer instead of an x-ray film. This new method drastically reduces the current 'varying disputed' danger levels of radiation.

Other advantages are claimed to be better detection of smaller lumps as they can zoom in and look at suspect areas from different angles, better and earlier detection in denser tits (particularly beneficial for the young) and exposure can be corrected which avoids the need for a further mammogram of suspect areas.

Digital mammogram units are already installed in certain hospitals and the NHS program aims to have at least one in every screening unit by 2010. Not sure how that's going or how readily they'll be be to the general public in the near term, but people are getting them done privately for around 200 Pounds, not too bad spread over 3 years and divided by 2no.

Digital Mammograms are available in the top Bangkok hospitals for just 5,500 Baht.

SJ

[MrPlum]

Well Man clinics are very profitable. The diagnosis industry was worth $50 billion in the U.S. alone last year and it's growing. The costs of the tests are only part of the revenue stream. Clearly they are going to capture more customers through expanded coverage.

This Times article from last year suggests there are few benefits to those who don't actually have any symptoms...
'Health ‘MoT’ tests are misleading and can be harmful, experts say'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 524821.ece

''Healthy people have nothing to gain from spending hundreds of pounds on blood tests and scans that purport to give an early warning of medical problems such as heart disease or cancer, the experts said.'

...while many tests included in commercial “well-man” and “well-woman” services have great diagnostic value for people with symptoms, they are clinically irrelevant for those who are well. The results often cause needless concern or false reassurance, and can lead to unnecessary procedures that can be invasive, painful and risky.'

How many people are using these checks to allow them to continue their unhealthy lifestyles? Prevention is better than cure but prevention isn't getting your blood pressure checked. Prevention is exercise, better nutrition and a reduction in stress. The reliance on tests and technology gives a false sense of security STOPPING people from doing what they know they should be doing.

In the UK the elderly don't want to visit hospitals because they know it's full of sick people. What's the likelihood of you going to hospital for a check up and picking up a hospital-borne infection?

For years we have been bombarded by medical TV shows, movies, infomercials masquerading as 'News', articles on health in every magazine and newspaper. Conditioned to the point where many are neurotic about their health. It could be argued that the industry is creating a need, in order to satisfy it.

According to this article, small hyperplastic polyps have not been shown to increase the risk of colorectal cancer and the risks of colonoscopy vs benefits cancel each other out.
'Surgical Removal Of Small Colon Polyps Is Costly And Unnecessary, Study Suggests'
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 111544.htm

Medline has this page on Garlic... http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... arlic.html
Despite the industry dodge of 'not enough studies have been done' there is enough support here for the cancer, cholesterol and blood pressure protective effects of raw Garlic to consider adding it to your daily regimen.

[lindosfan1]

Mrplum said
Medline has this page on Garlic... http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drug ... arlic.html
Despite the industry dodge of 'not enough studies have been done' there is enough support here for the cancer, cholesterol and blood pressure protective effects of raw Garlic to consider adding it to your daily regimen.[quote]
Mr plum medical checks are good. I had high cholesterol detected, took pills and diet advice problem cured
Some cancers at the early stages have no symptom by the time he symptom show it is to late
Your qualified answer to the problem eat raw garlic, is this part of the 95% of natural medicine being rubbish you were quoted as saying and never denied in another thread.
Well man/woman clinics are good. You are examined by a QUALIFIED doctor.
You state raw garlic better your having a laugh.

edited for spelling error

[Super Joe]

Well Man clinics are very profitable.

They're also very cheap for us here in Thailand, the grade A check-up at one of the top hospitals in Bangkok works out around 50 Baht per week for those undertaking them every 5 years.

...while many tests included in commercial "well-man" and "well-woman" services have great diagnostic value for people with symptoms, they are clinically irrelevant for those who are well.

To me this is the most pertinent part of that article. That these wellness checks are clinically irrelevant to those who are well is stating the obvious, but ofcourse we do not actually know for sure we are well or whether we have a silent killer developing inside of us. Just because you have no symptoms and feel as fit as a fiddle, does not neccessarily mean you do not have developing health problems.

We all know early detection can save lives, and we all know that having no symptoms does not mean we are neccessarily healthy. That's why some of us choose to have various checks and tests carried out, those who do not want them do not have to.

SJ