Land problems: advice needed

[Toonmad]

A year ago my wife and I bought a house and three rai of land here in the NE from the GM Bank. The house was derelict and the land was overgrown but the price was good and it had chanote papers.
We made the final payment last month but when we got the amphur to come and find or replace the markers we find that the land we bought is not the land we were shown. There is some overlap but the most of the house is now on land we don’t own.
The original owner who is still our neighbour swears he sold the plot of land we thought we bought. The village headman confirms his story. The original owner sold it to someone who worked at the local amphur office so it looks as though something fishy has gone on.
I have lived here a while but do not know enough about the legal system to fathom out what to do. Will the bank repay us the money, will they also pay us compensation for the money we spent on the house and the time we have put into the land? (I suspect not). Is it likely to take forever? What should our first steps be? All advice and suggestions gratefully received.

[Edited by mod: title changed and moved to property section]

[Super Joe]

A year ago my wife and I bought a house and three rai of land here in the NE from the GM Bank. The house was derelict and the land was overgrown but the price was good and it had chanote papers.
We made the final payment last month but when we got the amphur to come and find or replace the markers we find that the land we bought is not the land we were shown. There is some overlap but the most of the house is now on land we don’t own.
The original owner who is still our neighbour swears he sold the plot of land we thought we bought. The village headman confirms his story. The original owner sold it to someone who worked at the local amphur office so it looks as though something fishy has gone on.
I have lived here a while but do not know enough about the legal system to fathom out what to do. Will the bank repay us the money, will they also pay us compensation for the money we spent on the house and the time we have put into the land? (I suspect not). Is it likely to take forever? \
What should our first steps be? All advice and suggestions gratefully received.

To go and see a decent real estate lawyer IMO, when it comes to things like this I don't think there's anyone on the forums that can give you any worthwhile advice as to what the legal implications are, and likely outcome will be. Sorry to hear about your predicament.
Everyone buying property should see a lawyer at day 1, they should advise a land title search (8-10k Baht) where they check the land markers/posts on site and at the local land office, then this sort of thing can be avoided.

Good luck Toon,

SJ

[stgrhe]

Being in the NE I strongly recommend you to contact Sebastien Brousseau at Issan Lawyers in Nakhon Ratchasima. He is a French-Candaian lawyer and works together with some Thai lawyer.

I have used their service although I live in Hua Hin and they are both very good and have reasonable prices for their service.

Just google Issan Lawyers and you will find their website.

[STEVE G]

If no one is actually disputing your ownership of the land and the headman is on your side, I would try and sort things out locally first before getting lawyers involved.
If land around where you are is worth what it is where my partner lives, a couple of lawyers fees would buy you a lot of land.
If you've actually got the same area of land that you paid for, I don't think you would get far with the bank that sold it anyway.
Do you know who actually owns the rest of the land?
If it is a local and they are reasonable people I would consider making them an offer for it; presumably they didn't even know it was theirs anyway and would accept it as a bonus.
I bought some land adjoining our house to build a kitchen on for 17,000 bt off a neighbour.

[Toonmad]

We live near Nong Khai so a lawyer from there or perhaps Udon Thani, where the bank we bought from is situated, might be a better bet.
The land the house is on is now owned by our neighbour I presume, as he owned it before he thought he sold it to the amphur man. I now own two and a half rai of this neighbours land and we have been talking but cannot agree yet as to the best course of action.
Thanks to all for the advice given and to the mods for putting this in the correct forum.

[STEVE G]

If I understand you correctly and you have no dispute with the neighbour, but only with the demarcation of the land on the paperwork, perhaps it would be possible to exchange the two offending parts so you would both end up with what you're supposed to have.
I think you would have to effectively sell each other the parts on paper at the land office, so you would have to pay tax on a nominal value and for the administration, but it shouldn't be too expensive.
A local lawyer should be able to handle that sort of thing.

[Toonmad]

This is what we are trying to do. The stumbling block is the land I now own has chanote papers and the land that most of the house is on has no papers.

[Sydney Jed]

Definitely get a lawyer,as sounds too many complications are involved .I know some of the advice is basically pointing to 'placid arbitration',but if in say 3/4 years down the track some one disputes your ownership it'll be on again and you don't really want any doubts like that mulling in the back of your mind.Get it clarified el pronto and with a legal piece of paper with your name on it!Good luck!

[Khundon1975]

Toonmad

With the greatest respect to you both, why did you not walk the piece of land in question and inspect the markers, then check the ownership before you handed over the money?

If no markers were present, then I would have insisted that the "land owner" have them installed and registered at the land office, before I proceeded. This would (in most cases) avoid the problem you are now faced with.

Establishing exactly what you are buying, is a definite prerequisite when purchasing any land in Thailand.

Land acquisition in the LOS, is fraught with danger and this is the least anyone should do, before parting with any money.

I sincerely hope, that with some amicable negotiations with the parties concerned, you are able to resolve the matter to everyone's satisfaction.

Resorting to a lawyer, as you say, could be costly.

Good luck.