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Second language
Second language
A case for assuring expat children born here learn both Thai as well as a parent's native language. Pete
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Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
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GLCQuantum
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As long as the child has enough contact with English from the parent(s) when their at home there should be no problem for the child to be confident in both Thai and English (or any other langauge).
I've seen some hilarious situations where the father has been telling me how poor his kids English is and how frustrating it is for him. On a friendly visit to the guys house after work I see the guy sitting outside with a bottle of beer paying little to no attention of his 4 year old running about. On the odd occasion he would speak it would be broken English to his wife!!
Hmmmm. I can't see why his kid isn't picking up his language. Just can't put my finger on it.
I've seen some hilarious situations where the father has been telling me how poor his kids English is and how frustrating it is for him. On a friendly visit to the guys house after work I see the guy sitting outside with a bottle of beer paying little to no attention of his 4 year old running about. On the odd occasion he would speak it would be broken English to his wife!!
Hmmmm. I can't see why his kid isn't picking up his language. Just can't put my finger on it.
Spot on, you have to immerse them in both from day one so that they actually don't realise they are speaking two separate languages. The number of guys that still use Tinglish to both their kids and partners is quite shocking - they're learning this!GLCQuantum wrote: On a friendly visit to the guys house after work I see the guy sitting outside with a bottle of beer paying little to no attention of his 4 year old running about. On the odd occasion he would speak it would be broken English to his wife!!
Hmmmm. I can't see why his kid isn't picking up his language. Just can't put my finger on it.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Farang school teachers out there.
I know many farangs who teach with a minimal knowledge in Thai. Does your Thai improve through your teching English to Thai kids?
I know many farangs who teach with a minimal knowledge in Thai. Does your Thai improve through your teching English to Thai kids?
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
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Vital Spark
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Some parents I know are unbelievably stupid. A colleague of mine has recently had a baby girl and his Thai wife speaks fluent English. He said that they would both speak to her in English – not Thai. ‘How is she going to learn Thai?’ I ask. ‘Oh, she’ll learn it at school.’ His excuse is that he doesn’t want her to grow up thinking that she should speak Thai to a Thai and English to a farang. This kid is really going to struggle in kindergarden.
Another friend (an English teacher) speaks to his son purely in Thai. His Thai wife left him and he was literally left ‘holding the baby’. He spends his spare time earning extra money teaching Thai kids English, and his son is bottom of the class in English at school.
Richard - I have never (and will never) speak Thai to my students. We communicate just fine, and when they’re struggling a bit there’s usually a friend who can help them out. I always make sure that they say it in English (not their friend) and they then tend to remember it (mostly...). What really makes my blood boil is English teachers trying to ‘impress’ students with their knowledge of Thai or speaking to them in Tinglish ‘You no come class, I no have homework you.’ Grrrrrrr....
Oh, and I do improve my Thai grammar by reading their written English.
VS
This kid is really going to struggle in kindergarden.Another friend (an English teacher) speaks to his son purely in Thai. His Thai wife left him and he was literally left ‘holding the baby’. He spends his spare time earning extra money teaching Thai kids English, and his son is bottom of the class in English at school.
Richard - I have never (and will never) speak Thai to my students. We communicate just fine, and when they’re struggling a bit there’s usually a friend who can help them out. I always make sure that they say it in English (not their friend) and they then tend to remember it (mostly...). What really makes my blood boil is English teachers trying to ‘impress’ students with their knowledge of Thai or speaking to them in Tinglish ‘You no come class, I no have homework you.’ Grrrrrrr....
Oh, and I do improve my Thai grammar by reading their written English.
VS
"Properly trained, man can be a dog's best friend"
Thanks VS
I have trouble learning second languages as I was brought up to believe the world spoke English.
I also have a hearing problem and therefore cannot always get the tonal differences right
Further more when I am in the sticks they dont want to talk Thai or Lao but English
Resigned to English or Tinglish
Your comment about speaking poor Thia to impress rings true and that is scary. It means we are always on the backfoot because we are trying to impress but acting like a clown in their eyes
I have trouble learning second languages as I was brought up to believe the world spoke English.
I also have a hearing problem and therefore cannot always get the tonal differences right
Further more when I am in the sticks they dont want to talk Thai or Lao but English
Resigned to English or Tinglish
Your comment about speaking poor Thia to impress rings true and that is scary. It means we are always on the backfoot because we are trying to impress but acting like a clown in their eyes
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
Hi All,
I live in Sydney Australia, my wife speaks to my daughter in Thai and I speak English, my daughter is only 12 weeks old but we interact with her as much as possible for her development in both languages.
I want to ask anyone of their experience/opinion raising half-Thai/Western kids, o/s or in Thailand and their level of development and recommendations regarding schooling. I am unsure if its best to send my daughter to school here in Aus or to an International School in Thailand where she can learn both languages properly.
My intention is for my daughter to be able to read, write and speak both languages fluently.
I live in Sydney Australia, my wife speaks to my daughter in Thai and I speak English, my daughter is only 12 weeks old but we interact with her as much as possible for her development in both languages.
I want to ask anyone of their experience/opinion raising half-Thai/Western kids, o/s or in Thailand and their level of development and recommendations regarding schooling. I am unsure if its best to send my daughter to school here in Aus or to an International School in Thailand where she can learn both languages properly.
My intention is for my daughter to be able to read, write and speak both languages fluently.
Not an easy question Cozza. I've raised two half Thai kids in the USA and am raising one here now who is 4.5. The first two was a different era and mentality and being young and foolish, my wife and I put little emphasis on teaching them Thai. Subsequently, as adults they now know little native Thai, only Thai from courses they've taken as adults.
Thinking back, which may be the same as now, unless their Mother took full control to speak Thai to them everyday and subsequently taught them to read/write Thai when the time came they would have had no other support. There was no Thai community, no Thai friends, no bilingual nursery or schools. It was full absorption into American English speaking society. As we've mentioned on here before, you only have about their first 7 years until their on-board automatic language learning computer turns off. After that a language has to be taught as a second language.
Turning the switch to over here now, it's not cheap. A good international school you'll be paying a minimum of about $6,000 USD per year all in for the early years, nursery, kindergarten years. It goes up from there as they get to Primary and Secondary. Once again the Mother is still left with the primary job of teaching Thai in the home, supplemented a bit by available Thai courses in school and after school, and their exposure to the Thai community. It's easier here but not a slam dunk. You still have to work at the Thai side as all of their instruction daily is in English, they tend to watch English TV and converse in English if they have classmates as neighbors.
Our little one is only getting about an hour per week in formal Thai instruction in school and this will stay about the same for the next four years of classes, through grade 4. Next year we're going to have to put her in an after school program daily so she catches up with where a Thai 5 year old should be concerning reading and writing. Speaking is coming along naturally on it's own.
Now, there's also the option of Thai private schools which are less expensive than International schools, I would say about half the cost. The shoe is on the other foot now though (yours) as they do get English instruction but only a few hours a week. All their activities, TV, communication tends to be mainly in Thai. You'll have to force English in your Thai home and probably put her into supplemental English courses when she reaches the first grade level.
It's really not easy regardless of which way you do it and where you do it.
A really important thing, perhaps more so than learning two languages, is what do you want for her future? Will she do her university studies and make a life for herself in the west or here in Thailand? If you and your wife are in a position to make that choice and the answer is in the West, then I would educate her in Australia and let her learn Thai there the best she can. The opposite, if you and your wife foresee that she'll have a good future and adult life here in Thailand.
Most certainly you can do it the other way around and both ways. It just seems better to me that if you can make a life choice early, it's better for the child in the long term. Pete
Thinking back, which may be the same as now, unless their Mother took full control to speak Thai to them everyday and subsequently taught them to read/write Thai when the time came they would have had no other support. There was no Thai community, no Thai friends, no bilingual nursery or schools. It was full absorption into American English speaking society. As we've mentioned on here before, you only have about their first 7 years until their on-board automatic language learning computer turns off. After that a language has to be taught as a second language.
Turning the switch to over here now, it's not cheap. A good international school you'll be paying a minimum of about $6,000 USD per year all in for the early years, nursery, kindergarten years. It goes up from there as they get to Primary and Secondary. Once again the Mother is still left with the primary job of teaching Thai in the home, supplemented a bit by available Thai courses in school and after school, and their exposure to the Thai community. It's easier here but not a slam dunk. You still have to work at the Thai side as all of their instruction daily is in English, they tend to watch English TV and converse in English if they have classmates as neighbors.
Our little one is only getting about an hour per week in formal Thai instruction in school and this will stay about the same for the next four years of classes, through grade 4. Next year we're going to have to put her in an after school program daily so she catches up with where a Thai 5 year old should be concerning reading and writing. Speaking is coming along naturally on it's own.
Now, there's also the option of Thai private schools which are less expensive than International schools, I would say about half the cost. The shoe is on the other foot now though (yours) as they do get English instruction but only a few hours a week. All their activities, TV, communication tends to be mainly in Thai. You'll have to force English in your Thai home and probably put her into supplemental English courses when she reaches the first grade level.
It's really not easy regardless of which way you do it and where you do it.
A really important thing, perhaps more so than learning two languages, is what do you want for her future? Will she do her university studies and make a life for herself in the west or here in Thailand? If you and your wife are in a position to make that choice and the answer is in the West, then I would educate her in Australia and let her learn Thai there the best she can. The opposite, if you and your wife foresee that she'll have a good future and adult life here in Thailand.
Most certainly you can do it the other way around and both ways. It just seems better to me that if you can make a life choice early, it's better for the child in the long term. Pete
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Pete has written a lot of good points there. I have been through this with a step daughter, and now a Granddaughter. The step daughter went to a boarding School in Australia for her Secondary Schooling, and she really struggled for the first year or so. Not only with the language gap, but the entirely different approach and "teaching" methods between the two countries.cozza wrote:Hi All,
My intention is for my daughter to be able to read, write and speak both languages fluently.
The Granddaughter was going to a Montessori Pre-School in Bangkok until her Mother decided that she was not getting enough "Thai", and moved her away. She now attends an English Program Kindergarten in Bangkok, and to be honest, it is a shameful rip off on the part of the owners. They are not "teaching" her anything that she would not get at a Government Pre-school for very little cost. I intend to try and get her back to the Montessori School soon.
Most educators will tell you that a bi-lingual program does not achieve the results that you may expect, when compared to a "single" stream program; it becomes a compromise of both systems.
I believe that for a child to become "fluent" in both languages, they need to be immersed in the "total environment" in their formative years. With the best will in the world your Thai wife is going to have a big problem trying to teach your daughter Thai, when her environment is English based.
For me, I would not even consider trying to have her formal education in Thailand. Apart from the cost, you would be taking her away from a world class system in Australia, indeed a system that a lot of Thais try to send their own children too.
What I would try and do is have your daughter spend some time with her Thai family in Thailand while she is still young, ie, pre-school age.
Six months spent running around with other Thai kids, in a Thai environment will go much further than spending thousands of dollars on any "International" School.
It is a very difficult decision(s) to make, and you are right to ask questions about it while she is still young.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
Thanks for the info.
I am leaning towards early education in Aus and maybe holidays sent to Thailand with family to learn Thai, maybe in an "after hours" school.
I think learning Thai will not have as many advantages as English outside Thailand, so I think that I would rather the schooling be in English.
I am primarily worried about communication with Thai family as they're a tight knit bunch and really love my daughter and dont really want to take her away from having a big loving family. Maybe down the track when she is old enough to make her own decisions about uni and work, I wont really be able to control that so much and just want her to have the best options open for her.
My wife went to an expensive private school and a Catholic School and I dont think it really did her any good, she did English everyday and learnt nothing and I am not so sure about the curriculum either...
I am leaning towards early education in Aus and maybe holidays sent to Thailand with family to learn Thai, maybe in an "after hours" school.
I think learning Thai will not have as many advantages as English outside Thailand, so I think that I would rather the schooling be in English.
I am primarily worried about communication with Thai family as they're a tight knit bunch and really love my daughter and dont really want to take her away from having a big loving family. Maybe down the track when she is old enough to make her own decisions about uni and work, I wont really be able to control that so much and just want her to have the best options open for her.
My wife went to an expensive private school and a Catholic School and I dont think it really did her any good, she did English everyday and learnt nothing and I am not so sure about the curriculum either...
[quote="cozza"]Thanks for the info.
My wife went to an expensive private school and a Catholic School and I dont think it really did her any good, she did English everyday and learnt nothing and I am not so sure about the curriculum either...[ /quote]
Obviously not, if she married an Auzzie!
Just another point here, particularly in view of your wife's education: as I wrote, my Granddaughter was taken out of a good English Pre-School because her Mother got it into her head that the child was not getting enough "Thai" education. For me that is completely wrong, but I will concede that if the child goes to an English main stream Pre-School, then it will be difficult for her to change to the Thai Government system when she starts Primary School. Both parents need to be sure that they agree on the long term course to be followed.
My wife went to an expensive private school and a Catholic School and I dont think it really did her any good, she did English everyday and learnt nothing and I am not so sure about the curriculum either...[ /quote]
Obviously not, if she married an Auzzie!
Just another point here, particularly in view of your wife's education: as I wrote, my Granddaughter was taken out of a good English Pre-School because her Mother got it into her head that the child was not getting enough "Thai" education. For me that is completely wrong, but I will concede that if the child goes to an English main stream Pre-School, then it will be difficult for her to change to the Thai Government system when she starts Primary School. Both parents need to be sure that they agree on the long term course to be followed.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
Thanks for opening this very interesting topic. I have thought long and hard about my family situation with a view to finding the best solution for all of us and I keep going round in circles!
However, I think for my family (wife and 2 young kids living here in Hua Hin), the early years are best spent here, and then after the kids are 10 they would be better off living in the UK and spending holidays in Thailand.
Some of my considerations have been:-
1. It's lovely here for young kids - Lots of outdoor wildlife and indoor resorts, it's safe and Thais love kids more than anywhere else I've lived.
2. What would I be sending them back to in the UK? - Not very safe for kids, cold polluted beaches and expensive kids pursuits.
3. We have much more quality time here as I don't need to work so hard. So we can do alot of home schooling, go out more, and still afford to send our children to a satisfactory bilingual school. Sending the kids to private school in the UK would strip us of all our assets before the kids had a chance to enjoy them.
Of course Australia isn't half as grim as England can be, but I believe the best education for ones children is to, try to lead by example, spend as much quality time as you can together, and try to afford to help them follow things they're interested in.
Think about when you were at school - the clever kids were clever before they came to school. I don't know any stupid kids who became clever at school...!! I'm sure your kids will learn to read and write and do mental arithmetic, if they're at all interested, no matter where they are!
However, I think for my family (wife and 2 young kids living here in Hua Hin), the early years are best spent here, and then after the kids are 10 they would be better off living in the UK and spending holidays in Thailand.
Some of my considerations have been:-
1. It's lovely here for young kids - Lots of outdoor wildlife and indoor resorts, it's safe and Thais love kids more than anywhere else I've lived.
2. What would I be sending them back to in the UK? - Not very safe for kids, cold polluted beaches and expensive kids pursuits.
3. We have much more quality time here as I don't need to work so hard. So we can do alot of home schooling, go out more, and still afford to send our children to a satisfactory bilingual school. Sending the kids to private school in the UK would strip us of all our assets before the kids had a chance to enjoy them.
Of course Australia isn't half as grim as England can be, but I believe the best education for ones children is to, try to lead by example, spend as much quality time as you can together, and try to afford to help them follow things they're interested in.
Think about when you were at school - the clever kids were clever before they came to school. I don't know any stupid kids who became clever at school...!! I'm sure your kids will learn to read and write and do mental arithmetic, if they're at all interested, no matter where they are!
Nereus,
My wife came here to Sydney as an o/s student first learning English and then did business admin at TAFE. She admits that the system here and learning in English will have obvious advantages so its not so much about 'Thai education' rather than just being able to read, write and speak.
bigideas,
I think its a tough decision when the social aspects are measured. I have a job here but socially things are better in Thailand and as you say clever kids are not taught to be clever at school.
I think all things have to be put on the table and measured properly to make this decision. I want as much advice as I can get especially from those with experience.
My wife came here to Sydney as an o/s student first learning English and then did business admin at TAFE. She admits that the system here and learning in English will have obvious advantages so its not so much about 'Thai education' rather than just being able to read, write and speak.
bigideas,
I think its a tough decision when the social aspects are measured. I have a job here but socially things are better in Thailand and as you say clever kids are not taught to be clever at school.
I think all things have to be put on the table and measured properly to make this decision. I want as much advice as I can get especially from those with experience.