Hua Hin property multiple listing service

[hhfarang]

Thank you guys, I'm getting more and more scared! It sure sounds like it's a "real estate zoo" out there in HH! In Hawaii we have bonded escrow companies handeling all transactions and neither the seller or the seller's agent get a penny before the transaction is closed! Escrow also pays the agent of the buyer before distributing the funds. (It's the same with new developments and developers too.)

Escrow... I doubt there is even a Thai word for that... over here "you ain't in Kansas ... er, Hawaii anymore"!

[crazy88]

TT are you saying that if i were to build you a property in Hawii that I would not receive a penny until the building is complete and signed over? Or once the formal contract is agreed and signed? If the latter then that is standard here. A reservation fee followed by first stage or full payment upon signing. If an agent sells for me they get paid in cash the day I receive funds. I personally think the idea of a "buyers broker" is a very good and proven system. however from experience here i can tell you that it would be initially hard to implement as all the buyers are used to not paying for the brokers services. Some commercial speculators will offer a finders fee but it is rare and confined to the foreign market. The commercial office of a friend used to ask for a refundable deposit upon purchase of 1000 us. They were dealing with multi million dollar hotels some of which they had the exclusive on so it weeded out the tire kickers. An agent here would struggle to get someone to put down 100 us as the client can just walk down the street and into another agency with the same stock. The majority of agents here simply drop the customer at the development and let the staff there make the sale. After commission is paid you never see them again in a professional capacity. They are ignoring some of the basic fundamentals for salespeople and so are their employers. These guys would not know what a bird dog was if it bit them on the nose. There are also a number of hard working professionals that go the distance with clients up to and beyond occupation of the property. If I were in unfamiliar territory I would happily pay a broker to act on my behalf and give me accurate information and advice.

Crazy 88

[TypicallyTropical]

Guru, if you buy a house or a condo from a developer in Hawaii, the developer doesn't get paid until the project is finished and you get clear title. Escrow will hold your money until the project is finished, if it is not than you get your money back. If you buy an existing property than escrow will hold the funds until all hurdles are cleared and disburse the funds only after the Bureau of Conveyences confirms the transfer of ownership. Buyer's Broker is your best friend here, they represent the Buyer and only the Buyer!

[BaaBaa.]

pennyflower,

You paid AU$5,000 to an agent because you were interested in a particular property and they promised to find one for you.

Did I read that right?

I think you did, mindblowing stuff.

[pennyflower]

Ozuncle
No . I had found a property that I was interested in, if I could not find the one I originally went to see.
I was told that before the agent would/could continue with any negotiations such as checking the title, getting a list of inclusions, termite inspecion advice etc. That would require this sum of money as show of good faith as many people waste
agents time while they are on holidays and they are not really interested in buying at all.
That is why I was insistant on it being a fully refundable sum.
Big joke as it turns out.
Time to look for better things.
Anyone know of any dog breeders in Cha Am HH area?
PK

[PeteC]

Penny, I'm going to start a new thread for you concerning your last question to keep this one on topic. Look for it in "ask the expats" Pete

[Super Joe]

I was told that before the agent would/could continue with any negotiations such as checking the title, getting a list of inclusions, termite inspecion advice etc. That would require this sum of money as show of good faith as many people waste agents time while they are on holidays and they are not really interested in buying at all.

Did it not strike you as odd that you had to pay A$5,000 before they would give you termite advice, or what was included in the property ?

What was your lawyer's advice regarding paying this money ? (yeah I know you didn't.)

If this is for real , then I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your situation.

SJ

[pennyflower]

Yep this is for real i have the documents to varify.
As far as I was cncerned I had not reach the solicitor stage.
As I had not found a property I nwas going to definately buy.
PK

[ozuncle]

[Super Joe]

Thank you guys, I'm getting more and more scared! It sure sounds like it's a "real estate zoo" out there in HH! In Hawaii we have bonded escrow companies handeling all transactions and neither the seller or the seller's agent get a penny before the transaction is closed! Escrow also pays the agent of the buyer before distributing the funds. (It's the same with new developments and developers too.)

Escrow... I doubt there is even a Thai word for that... over here "you ain't in Kansas ... er, Hawaii anymore"!

Thailand recently introduced an Escrow Act, but it's not mandatory that buyer and seller enter into an agreement. Not sure it's currently used much, except some of the larger developers, but you would think other developers who could handle the cashflow implications would use it rather than loose a sale in the current climate: http://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax-flash-2008 ... -act.jhtml


Escrows haven't been problem free though, and if someone is determined enough to commit fraud etc ...

$37 Million Mortgage Fraud Scheme - At settlement time the conspirators imposed numerous fees for services which were not performed. Additionally, they transferred the sale proceeds out of the escrow accounts into their business and personal bank accounts.

Former owner of Title Services of Green Bay pleaded guilty to carrying out a scheme to defraud in which he diverted money from his business escrow account, intended to be used to pay closing costs on real estate transactions handled by his business. From 2002 to 2008, LaMarch diverted more than $1.5 million from the escrow account.

The FDIC has notified American Savings Bank customers with commercial real estate escrow accounts that if their accounts held more than $100,000, they would only recieve 75 cents on each dollar of the remainder. The FDIC spokesperson said the total loss to 8,600 depositors is $119 million.

SJ

[TypicallyTropical]

Escrows haven't been problem free though, and if someone is determined enough to commit fraud etc ...

$37 Million Mortgage Fraud Scheme - At settlement time the conspirators imposed numerous fees for services which were not performed. Additionally, they transferred the sale proceeds out of the escrow accounts into their business and personal bank accounts.

Former owner of Title Services of Green Bay pleaded guilty to carrying out a scheme to defraud in which he diverted money from his business escrow account, intended to be used to pay closing costs on real estate transactions handled by his business. From 2002 to 2008, LaMarch diverted more than $1.5 million from the escrow account.
SJ

There are bad apples in every basket, but I would never recommend to my clients to use just any escrow company. There are huge escrow companies doing business in every state of the US and some even do business overseas too, I wouldn't worry having my money deposited with them.

[Super Joe]

There are bad apples in every basket, but I would never recommend to my clients to use just any escrow company. There are huge escrow companies doing business in every state of the US and some even do business overseas too, I wouldn't worry having my money deposited with them.

Yes, totally agree with that TT. The thing with Thailand real estate is that it's still an immature market, none more so than Hua Hin. Suits me fine, the growth it's experienced since coming out of the 1997 Asian crash around 2000 has been massive and personally can only see Hua Hin continuing to grow, albeit at a slower rate over the next decase or so, once the recession / exchange rates improve. Pattaya's not a family/quiet retirees place, Samui & Phuket have limited land at sky high prices, Thai on farang crime gone through the roof in Phuket too over last year. Whereas from Cha Am through Hua Hin to Pranburi you're falling over affordable undeveloped land.

Sorry I'm waffling ..... but as it's still an emerging market, places like Hua Hin has seen developers, contractors, agents, lawyers, accountants, architects etc etc spring up all over the place, myself included. So not an easy thing to judge the best services as it would be 'back home', ie: Hawaii which you obviously know inside out judging by the organisation you've grown there.
   
There's been some tinkering with land ownership regulations, many people expect further developments there or with the land lease periods, not an issue if buying condos. The Escrow Act was only bought in two years back and isn't widely used yet, there's an article on them in this link you might find of interest: http://www.tillekeandgibbins.com/Public ... rw_act.pdf

Still it's dire right now, maybe the red shirts activities over the coming days will weaken the Baht

Cheers,

SJ

[TypicallyTropical]

Thanks Joe, obviously, I'm learning a lot about Thailand/Hua Hin and how the real estate business is done there. Needless to say, it's a totally new territory for me. I own three businesses (including a development company and a real estate company) for 20 years now in Hawaii and I belive in doing business the right way. I surround myself and do business with top-notch companies only. I use the best construction, mortgage, termite, escrow, title, inspection, etc., companies only. While this cost me more, it makes my life much easier.

I can't even imagine giving money just to anyone and hope a condo complex will be built and not the developer bailing with my (and the other's) money. There are risks in every business but that would fall under "gambling" in my dictionary. Anyway, this is a great web site with some very helpful people and thanks for all the imput!