Political un-rest and rally

[sandman67]

Sarge

I agree with what you are saying - I just dont think Thailand is suited to democracy at all. Not now, and not for at least one generation even if drastic changes were made today.

Whilst Thailand as a country is steeped in modernety and the western way, its social culture is still a creaky dusty remenant of the 1900s - full of Pu Yai scum expecting all and sundry to kow tow and grovel in the dust...every level of society repeating that attitude up and down. A laughable education system that turns men into empty headed drones and engenders the worship of false idols (and I aint talking Buddha here).

There is much to admire in Thai culture, but theres also a lot that deserves contempt. The culture of lying to save face and avoiding taking responsibility. The widespread acceptance of corruption, theft and fraud as a normal part of life. The empty persuit of material wealth and status symbols. The lack of pride in a job well done. The ideas that plagarism and conformity come before free thought and innovation. The total lack of any sense of public duty and responsibility. And most of all those three words that maintain this pathetic state of stupidity

MAI PEN RAI

when that is the national motto its no wonder the result is a nation of serfs who worship thier so called betters when they deign to throw them scraps, incapable of wondering why they eat pig whiskers while the fat cats gobble up all the pork.

and like you I agree it is impossible to hold a decent debate in a country where free speech is an empy phrase.

[Bamboo Grove]

Being non-elected doesn't mean it can't be a good thing for a country. I remember well the situation in the early 90's (I was in Thailand at that time) and the very popular prime minister Anand Panyarachun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anand_Panyarachun.) I can't remember many people compaining that he wasn't elected by popular vote. Still he did great things for the country.

What I mean is, that this situation isn't just a matter of having elections or not. I'm not taking any sides either. Both sides do great harm to the country and people.

[sargeant]

democray doesnt happen with one bound ask iraq and afghanistan it takes many steps

I am not so stupid as to think the red shirts are a panacea for all things but at least if they can get all people to accept the ballot box (one small step) and all people equal under the law (a very difficult step) and an impartial legal system (god knows how big a step that would have to take)

or only one of those steps this time it is better for the Thais than sitting on their arses taking the crap handed down to them

just watched France 24 police raided a hotel to arrest 5 five red shirt leaders one was filmed escaping down a rope from his balconey the other 4 four just plain old fashioned escaped

strikes me they are not as uneducated or stupid as some people think rice farmers are

[sargeant]

Sorry sense of humour warning

could it be the red shirt leaders in the hotel were tipped off

20 odd heavily armed police officers whistling the theme tune to Dixon of Dock Green may have been a give away

[JD]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... le1536363/

Excerpts from the above link.

Thailand's political crisis took a surreal twist Friday when an anti-government protest leader (Arisman Pongruangrong) scaled down a hotel facade with a rope to evade arrest and drove off with two police officers taken hostage by his supporters.

A spokesman from national police headquarters confirmed that a police colonel and a police major general were being held by Mr. Arisman's supporters.

“This is a war between the government and the Red Shirts,” Mr. Arisman said. “Our next strategy will be to hunt down Suthep Thaugsuban and Abhisit Vejjajiva.”

Less than 30 minutes before the hotel drama, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban had announced on national television that a unit of special forces had encircled the SC Park Hotel in downtown Bangkok where Mr. Arisman and other Red Shirt protest leaders were staying.

[caller]

The 'rope trick' is pretty much front page news here. What's evident is that no one person is in charge, the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing and where's the PM gone?

Can't mention the aussie documentary too much, 'cept its reported in the news here (beeb) that the Thais have made a formal complaint and have stated it may damage relationships between the two Countries. I bet thats got the aussies a-trembling! Besides, I thought the Phuket air-crash had achieved that? Free speech, eh? Not a concept understood in LOS.

[STEVE G]

I was passed by several hundred of the Thai army heading in the direction of Bangkok an hour or so ago so I hope that nothing drastic is happening as the authorities don't seen very good at sorting this problem out.

[cozza]

I agree 100% about being above the law, I have seen lives lost and nothing can be done for justice. I do not think even 1% that the reds and Thaksin will change anything, how long did Thaksin have to stamp it all out? Thaksin had his chance and failed, he also had no global financial crisis, he had a booming world economy and so did PPP. The talk about these poor rice farmers only hope is just brainwashing. Like I said its about power grabbing. Thaksin had business dealings with certain future leader, I wonder why? The guy has more money than anyone in Thailand, if he's truly innocent, why not fight it? Surely he could even bribe the corrupt judges that werent thrown out.

The talk of Democracy makes me laugh...seriously, how many times have I heard from the Reds claims they want true democracy so they can have freedom. The picket signs saying only Thaksin can help them...please.

Democracy is 2 vs 1, majority rules, minority gets stuffed...the Democracy cr@p is the western propoganda from the last 50 years, fighting communism & socialism.

Thailand doesnt need Democracy, it needs to get rid of the corruption, for a start.

You give a poor rice farmer 100 baht they buy Lao Khao, you give a Thai politician 100,000, what do they buy? My wifes fathers brother is in politics in Cha Am. He has built roads, created rubbish bin collections and other community projects. His opposition is a crook, yet he keeps getting elected and taking the credit. This is democracy.

This may irk some, but what does a poor rice farmer know about business outside of their rice field, outside of their village? Why are these areas so undeveloped compared to some comparable other parts of Thailand? Simple, their leaders do not care about them.

There are so many social issues in Thailand, but for the time being, what it needs is a stable government, with elections that come when they are due.

[cozza]

Sorry, I thought I should add...

The yellows version of democracy is a far cry from the truth too, they are just as bad.

I think Abhisit deserves a full term and I say long live the king!

[sargeant]

Steve I think they are expecting a large influx of red shirt supporters starting tommorrow

[hhfarang]

I was passed by several hundred of the Thai army heading in the direction of Bangkok an hour or so ago so I hope that nothing drastic is happening

Steve, this may have something to do with what you saw...

Thai army says planning operation to clear protesters

by Thanaporn Promyamyai

BANGKOK (AFP): -- Thailand's embattled prime minister put his army chief in charge of security in the capital Friday after a bungled raid on a hotel where leaders of the Red Shirt protest movement were holed up.

Authorities are turning up the heat again on anti-government demonstrators after a lull in tensions between the two sides, whose standoff descended into the country's deadliest civil unrest in two decades last weekend.

The military said it was planning another operation to disperse the thousands of protesters from Bangkok's commercial district but the timing had not yet been decided.

"There will be an effort to retake the area. We can't allow protests there because it damages the country," army spokesman Sunsern Kaewkumnerd told reporters.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said that he was replacing his deputy as head of security operations in the capital, giving army chief Anupong Paojinda broader powers to tackle "terrorism".

"The government reassures you that we will restore normalcy," he said in a nationally televised address.
Experts said the move suggested the authorities might be preparing another crackdown, following last Saturday's bloody clashes that left 23 people dead.

It also came after commandos earlier Friday stormed a Bangkok hotel where leaders of the Red Shirt protest movement were hiding, but the mission ended in dramatic failure after the suspects managed to flee.

"They tried to arrest the co-leaders of the Red Shirts and they were unable to do so. I think that was another humiliation," said Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a fellow at the Institute for Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.

"When you let the military control a situation it hardly ever ends nice and peacefully. There's a possibility it might turn nasty."
One leading Red Shirt climbed down an electric cable from the third floor of the hotel in Bangkok's northern outskirts before being rushed away by jubilant supporters, despite the presence of dozens of riot police nearby.

The operation "was not a success but the government will carry on", Abhisit said.
The setback to the authorities came almost a week after the army tried in vain to clear an area of the capital of anti-government demonstrators, triggering the country's deadliest civil unrest in 18 years.

"Police kicked the door open and threw smoke and stun grenades into the room, but luckily I ran to the window and used an electric cord to climb down," said one of the Red Shirt leaders who fled the hotel, Arisman Pongruangrong.

"Now our mission is to hunt down Abhisit and (deputy PM) Suthep. Our patience is at its limit," he said at the main rally stage in the commercial district in the heart of the Thai capital.

The Reds, who began their mass rallies on March 12, say the area will be the scene of the "final round" in their fight to overthrow the government.

The turmoil has spooked investors, with Thai stocks plunging 3.25 percent on Friday as trading resumed after a three-day break for the Thai New Year. The market has tumbled almost seven percent over the past two trading days.

Arrest warrants have been issued for many of the Red Shirt leaders, including Arisman, who is accused of involvement in the storming of parliament earlier this month as well as an Asian summit in Pattaya last year.

The mostly poor and rural red-clad supporters of fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra say the government is illegitimate because it came to power in 2008 after a court ousted Thaksin's allies from power.

Two police officers were taken by the protesters from the hotel to the rally site and briefly interrogated by Red Shirts, but they later told reporters that they had not been taken hostage but wanted to ensure Arisman's safety.

Abhisit has blamed "terrorists" for inciting last weekend's violent street clashes, which sparked bloody gun battles in the heart of the capital.
The government, which imposed a state of emergency in Bangkok and surrounding areas a week ago, has accused Thaksin of stoking the unrest.

A legal aide announced Thaksin is to sue Thailand's Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya after the politician called him a "bloody terrorist".

"Dr Thaksin has assigned a team of lawyers to bring a libel case, both civil and criminal, against Mr. Kasit," Noppadon Pattama told AFP.

[sargeant]

from what i am seeing i think the weather will have a very major say in what happens
with luck all aggro on either side will be washed out and peace will reign

[sargeant]

Here is what I see as what is needed to start some dialogue both sides need to give and take but both sides must respect the wishes of the majority on all issues

1. Moderator edit - T&C's clearly state - Discussion on Thai monarchy is strictly forbidden. Political topics are permitted however they will be closely monitored.

2. The red shirts should in conjunction with the democrats agree that Thaksin Shinawatra will not receive amnesty but face his accusers and ALL charges in open court televised live to the nation and under a guarantee of impartial judges by whichever side wins the election. And also agree to abide by the verdicts and sentences of just law.
3. Both sides agree that the next parliament will be for 2 years only during which time
4. An all party commission will inspect and amend a new constitution to be completed in 2 years and presented as a referendum at the next election.
5. An all party commission will interview and interrogate all judges to ensure they are impartial, defrock those that are not and vet any new judges. This should be a permanent institution.
6. The election commission will instigate a computerised voter registration system with a central computer (in place within 6 months) that will ensure that everyone has one vote and only one vote and all people can register to vote where they live on their id card and not by tabien bahn.
7. the next 3 months will require the public to be educated to the changes as to registering
8. All voters would then have 6 months to reregister
9. The next 6 months after registration times are finished the electoral commission and an all party electoral committee will ensure that constituencies are as equally represented as possible and constituency boundaries changed to ensure it where necessary.
10. The final 3 months to be used to ensure the public know and are properly educated as to where they vote and above all educate them why.
11. An all party group propose laws on the media to ensure the public are given the truth and education and not propaganda and punishments to suit non compliance

Both sides must agree to abide by the results of any election

I can see many problems with the above but just hearing continual back and forth with only demands that wont be met and not hearing any positive moves forward made me write this. Number 1 and 2 will be difficult for either side but they both must bite the bullet

[Super Joe]

I was passed by several hundred of the Thai army heading in the direction of Bangkok an hour or so ago so I hope that nothing drastic is happening

Steve, this may have something to do with what you saw...

The military said it was planning another operation to disperse the thousands of protesters from Bangkok's commercial district but the timing had not yet been decided.
"There will be an effort to retake the area. We can't allow protests there because it damages the country," army spokesman Sunsern Kaewkumnerd told reporters.

And the recent taking to the streets of the so-called 'no colour shirts' may be playing a role here because if they and the red shirts cross paths it could be eventful ...

133827.jpg (48.37 KiB) Viewed 627 times

I think this lady has slightly misjudged the situation ...

no-shirts-no-problems.jpg (55.1 KiB) Viewed 627 times

SJ

[Takiap]

Well, that's my mind made up then.................I'm with that "no shirts" lady pictured above

BTW, good post Serge but I seriously doubt any of that will happen