Political un-rest and rally

[BaaBaa.]

Well I'm doing the run Tomorrow so if I haven't replied by Sunday then all is not well.

It's all done and dusted now as far as you're concerned.

I wouldn't even bother changing your plans.

[PeteC]

Well I'm doing the run Tomorrow so if I haven't replied by Sunday then all is not well.It's all done and dusted now as far as you're concerned.I wouldn't even bother changing your plans.

I don't think anyone coming here to any destination except the deep south will have problems. We're taking a 3 day break due to the school holiday today at http://www.cabbagesandcondoms.co.th/ and I've never seen this town so empty. The only farangs are the residents cruising around on their motorbikes and a hand full of Russians. Even the highways are empty. The usually busy channel between Pattaya and Koh Larn was completely void of any ferries all afternoon and evening yesterday. I think we're in a good window before any protests start again to enjoy a relatively 'tourist free' Thailand. Pete

[Takiap]

No doubt half of Bangkok will be down in Hua Hin though. I don't think they'll miss it for the world...lol.

[Takiap]

Just thought I'd mention this as I found it quite refreshing................The other evening I popped down to the local tin shack shop to buy a beer or two, and of course I decided to have a tin while I was there. As always, the TV was on and there were a variety of Thais watching. When I say variety, I mean the shop owners were there who are from down south, relatively well off people, and also very well educated. There were also several construction site workers from Isaan, who I assume would be very poor and probably not very well educated. In other words, they are, I would imagine typically "red shirt" supporters. What I'm getting at here is that there were a mixed bunch there that night. On TV they were showing those wonderfully stupid Farang who got involved in the trouble. The most interesting bit was the "Aussie military man", who was trying his best to look like he was for real while standing up on the stage. At this point I started looking at the Thais who were all watching this, and what struck me was that they were all in fits of laughter at him. I asked what's up and they just said crazy man. Basically, each and every one of the Thais that were there that night saw the Aussie military man as being nothing more than a joke, someone not even worthy of being taken seriously.

I now think it's safe to assume that even the politicians won't tar us all with the same brush. In the eyes of the Thais, these Farang who got involved are nothing more than trouble making comedians.

In my opinion, I don't think they influenced any Thai people into doing anything, so yes, the government are acting a little childish in a way by saying that Brit instigated the carry on at Central World. Even so, he deserves whatever punishment he gets simply for being so bloody stupid. I mean, even if you only have an IQ of 2, surely you know when to mind your own business. If this was China, he would more than likely get a bullet. Hell, traveling in Asia is not the same as traveling in Europe.

Thank goodness I just end up getting sleepy when I drink.

[HHADFan]

... On TV they were showing those wonderfully stupid Farang who got involved in the trouble. The most interesting bit was the "Aussie military man", who was trying his best to look like he was for real while standing up on the stage. At this point I started looking at the Thais who were all watching this, and what struck me was that they were all in fits of laughter at him....

Thank goodness I just end up getting sleepy when I drink.

He's showing himself to be a brilliant legal strategist as well:

BANGKOK: An Australian arrested over the Red Shirt protest, Conor Purcell, has refused to accept the authority of the Thai legal system, berating a judge in a Bangkok court.

Dressed in orange prison-issue shirt and shorts, barefoot and shackled in leg-irons, a furious Mr Purcell was led in to Pathumwan Municipal Court in Bangkok yesterday, protesting that he was being unlawfully held.

Visibly angry at his detention, Mr Purcell, 29, a former soldier, refused to stand when told and then yelled at the judge that he would not accept the court's right to try him. ''Nobody in this country has authority over me,'' he said.

He brushed aside a representative from the Australian embassy who was asking him to be quiet and continued his tirade, shaking and pointing at the judge. ''I'm not under Thai law. I'm only obeying international law. I'm head of the red gang,'' he yelled.

Jeff Savage, a British man also arrested for his role in the protest, sitting next to Mr Purcell in court, burst into tears.


Link here: http://www.smh.com.au/world/australian- ... -whrn.html

[STEVE G]

He's showing himself to be a brilliant legal strategist as well:

Maybe he is; he'll have a good case for an insanity plea the way he's going!

[cozza]

He's showing himself to be a brilliant legal strategist as well:

Maybe he is; he'll have a good case for an insanity plea the way he's going!

Yea...maybe he get a lobotomy...

[pharvey]

[quote="Takiap"]If this was China, he would more than likely get a bullet.quote]

If it was China, it would never have got to the stage of setting up a camp let alone threatening to.... AND torching half the bloody city.

[kendo]

These pair of fools can go and have a cuddle with the big tiger how dare they give farangs a bad image there's enough of that anyway.
Kendo.

[sargeant]

When people post words to the effect “Sarge you know it all” it invariably really means ---Sarge you don’t know shit
Let me say that with my 28 years of experience of Thailand I would probably feel I was gilding the lily by saying I think I know 50% it’s probably less but I do think it is a lot more than those with a lot less experience (I went on holiday once and read the tourist brochure twice)who always seem to be the ones sarcastically posting “Sarge you know it all”.
So here is my CV/resume’

1981 met first Thai wife a stripper in Germany decided to marry the wench as night club visits too expensive. Marriage cheaper (har dee har har got that wrong)
1982 sightseeing tour of the Falklands interrupted marriage plans
1983 travelled to Thailand for wedding (first time in Thailand) got married in Charlie’s tour office Sukhumvit road pissed outofmy brain living in a slum in Sumri BKK
1983-1986 army 2 years 1 year in Germany as civvy 1 year in welsh sweat shop
UP TO THIS POINT I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT Thai Politics
1986-dec 30th 1997 joined British Airways as baggage handler moved up to Supervisor Aircraft services.
Second day there was brought by a friend the Bangkok Post, The Nation and the 2 Thai language newspapers from the cleaners who remove the old newspapers and replace them on all flights. I received those editions virtually every day for THIRTEEN YEARS.
My first Thai wife took them to the Thai temple in Wimbledon where I met and spoke to Thai exiles mostly from the 1973 &1976 uprisings in BKK who enlightened me on Thai politics (realizing they had axes to grind)
One of the perks of working for an Airline is staff travel and I took good advantage of it visiting Thailand at least once mostly twice and on one occasion three times a year.
1992 was one occasion that coincided with my FIRST coup de Tat in May that year couldn’t go any bluddy where stuck in new bungalow at Don Muang airport.
I also in this time read many books on Thai history plus some political papers anything I could get my hands on

The above was all BEFORE I came here to live permanently

16 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE only to learn how little I knew

Jan 12th 1998 arrived Don Muang airport to start a new life in Thailand
Bought 2 million Bt beach property and got ripped of for it
Lost bungalow at Don Muang.
Spent 3 months living in the Tin shacks with GF to see what it was all about and to understand where GF was coming from (har dee har har still got no idea where she is coming from)
I chose where I live now deliberately because there are NO farangs in my street or the 2 that have lived here did not last long
I therefore spend most of my time listening to Thais, mostly working class Thais and Tin Shack people who have become close and firm friends
and understand this I poot Thai nit noy cowjai mak in other words I don’t speak much Thai but I understand most

My EXPERIENCE and knowledge of the Thai system comes from the Thais themselves it comes from hands on, it is also gleaned by long term trusted relationships where the unspoken can be spoken albeit in hushed whispers

So if you can top that feel free to say “Sarge you don’t know shit” but publish your own resume/CV if you want me to listen
If you cannot top it just accept we have a difference of opinion

And if at any time I point out you are factually wrong don’t act like a 6 month old baby girl and spout “Sarge you know it all” because I don’t

[kendo]

Sarge glad your back very interesting post good on ya!

[Ellycat]

Well Ms Ellycat, they are probably being over dramatic about it now, usually they like to 'ham it up' etc for effect but it shouldn't be a drama now.

Hua Hin is fine, and there's no problem at the airport either. If you are just flying in and then taking a taxi to HH then I can't see any dramas. Do what is best for your pocket regarding the flight situation. Even if you want to go to BBK for a bit then it's only the curfew at night that's a drama, but it'll be over in a few days so no worries.

Enjoy

Thanks, Spitfire. Keep the beer chilled for when I arrive.

[Ellycat]

Well I'm doing the run Tomorrow so if I haven't replied by Sunday then all is not well.

It's all done and dusted now as far as you're concerned.

I wouldn't even bother changing your plans.

Which one is the quickest and cheapest run, BaaBaa?

[pharvey]

Appologies for the length of the post, this was a piece by Robert Woodrow that I received by email - hence couldn't provide a link. Makes interesting reading though.....


The Down-Trodden Rural Poor of Thailand

It's not quite what you think

Here's what you need to know about the rural have-nots of Thailand. They are the richest poor people in the Third World. And they owe none of their affluence to Thaksin Shinawatra.

Fugitive former Prime Minster Thaksin, a billionaire wanted in connection with corruption and tax-evasion on a staggeringly egregious scale, has done a remarkable job of convincing the world that he is the champion of the rural poor in Thailand, and that such prosperity as the farmer enjoys is in some way due to him. Yet all of "his" programs have been in place for decades. His well-financed public-relations machine merely invented catchy new terms for them.

In Europe and North America, farmers tend to be affluent. A comparison is therefore not at all meaningful. But take a village carpenter in Thailand's northeast and compare him with a wood-worker in a small town in Iowa. To the American, the Thai seems impoverished, his house appalling basic, his expectations in life distressingly limited. But the Thai carpenter probably lives on family land rent-free, pays nothing to moderate the climate, produces his own vegetables, chickens, eggs and pork, and rides his own motor-cycle to his jobs. He's seen the American lifestyle on TV, and it's so far beyond the range of his experience, he doesn't feel deprived or envious.

Every village in Thailand was on the electricity grid long before Thaksin came on the scene, and virtually every village family has a refrigerator, electric rice-cooker, TV, radio and a couple of oscillating fans. Almost all rural households have a motorcycle, though it may be old and battered. In every village several families own pickup trucks. Animals are no longer used for farm work except in extremely remote corners of the kingdom. If farmers don't have a mini-tractor of their own, they rent or borrow one from a neighbor.

The "landless peasant" class exists, but is very small when compared with the Philippines, India and much of South America. The rich absentee farm landlord is almost unknown. Most farming families tend a small plot of land they own outright, mortgage-free (due to unscrupulous practices in the past, an outdated, paternalistic law prevents them putting up land as security with money-lenders, though they may borrow on anticipated harvests.) They sell a small cash crop through a co-operative. Their grown-up or adolescent children supplement the family income from jobs they hold in the cities.

Thailand, like the U.S., has a fallen-through-the-cracks underclass. While statistics*, as everywhere, have to be taken with a large measure of skepticism, officially 10% of the population is below the poverty line (12% in the U.S., 14% in Britain, 36% in Bangladesh). Of course, that means the poverty line for Thailand and no international comparisons are invoked. Poverty doesn't necessarily mean doing without TV or not being able to lean a beat-up old 100 c.c. Honda Dream by the door.

Unemployment in Thailand is 1.4% -- among the lowest in the world. Here it has to be cautioned that employment statistics are notoriously unreliable. Even in advanced countries, economists cannot agree whether to include the under-employed and those not actively seeking work. But unskilled work, if not well-paid, is not hard to find. My Bangkok apartment building has had a "security guard wanted" sign out for weeks.

During the dry season, many farmers supplement their income with construction work in the cities. But some prefer to do without extra luxuries and live the slow-paced, well-fed rural life. Two or three years ago, I found it impossible for several weeks to find a plumber to put in a new bathroom. Many "peasants" have become self-employed entrepreneurs and done well for themselves. Thaksin's policies had no discernible impact on the labor force.

There is no population pressure in Thailand, since each female, on average, gives birth to 1.6 children in her lifetime. That is well below replacement level, so the population will in time shrink unless immigration is vigorously promoted. Reduction in family size was achieved through education and the perceived economic benefits of smaller families, the same way it was reduced in Europe and Japan. This got started in the 1960s.

Wealth distribution in Thailand is no more extreme than in most industrialised countries. The poorest 10% of the people of Thailand own 2.6% of the nation's wealth. The richest 10% own 33.7%. In the U.S., the comparable figures are 2% and 30%, in the U.K. 2.1% and 28.5%. These statistics may not be wholly reliable, but distribution of wealth is unquestionably much more equitable than in China, India, Brazil or South Africa. Even isolated Thai villages, especially in the central plains, would seem very prosperous to rural Pakistanis and positively utopian to most Nigerians. Thaksin's much-vaunted "village revolving development funds" financing local enterprise had their antecedents in the 1970s.

All main roads in Thailand are paved (close to First-World standards), and most secondary roads are surfaced, as are a good many of the tracks that lead into remote villages, even in the poorer north and northeast parts of the country. It was like this when Thaksin was still a bankrupt ex-cop.

There are slums in Bangkok, but you have to go out of your way to find them. Since almost everyone is employed, squatters on state land in the cities often live there by choice because it is rent-free. You certainly do not have to go out of your way to see red-light districts. Incomes from the sex industry (obviously denied to those lacking looks and personally) exceed factory wages fivefold or more. The blind and maimed can apply for state aid, but street begging is often more lucrative. One sets one's own moral priorities.

There was care at government hospitals and health clinics long before Thaksin came along with his fancy $1 scheme. Treatment is not world-class but it is medical care nonetheless. People in need of operations get them for small fees, and if they have no money the charge is written off. No one is turned away from emergency rooms at government hospitals. Doctors who went through medical school on state scholarships owe as many years of modestly paid service in rural hospitals as they had in tuition.

Almost no Thais are unable read & write. Girls on average get 14 years of schooling and boys 13 years (note that girls are ahead). About 1.75 million post-secondary students (over 20% of their age group) are enrolled in universities (ranging from world-class to barely respectable), two-year colleges or vocational schools. Bright kids from poor families get government scholarships, so up-by-the-bootstraps success stories are so common as to be unremarkable. This high rate of upward social mobility goes back at least half a century.

Infant deaths per 1,000 live births in Thailand tallies 17, compared with 180 in Angola, 153 in Afghanistan and 6 in the U.S. Life-expectancy at birth is 73.1 years (78.1 in the U.S., 66.1 in Russia). HIV-positive people make up 1.4% of Thailand's population (0.6% in the U.S.)

With a population of 66 million, Thailand has 62 million registered cellphones and 7 million landlines. Service is as reliable as it is in Europe. One-fourth of the people regularly use the Internet. Thaksin's own company, which prospered prodigiously while he was prime minister, had one-third of the nation's mobile-phone customers. He sold the firm to an investment arm of the Singapore government (and paid no income tax).

Thailand routinely exports more than it imports. It is attractive for foreign direct investment. It therefore has enormous foreign reserves, and even though the country has few natural resources to sell abroad, its reserves, at $138 billion, are the 10th highest in the world. (Britain has $56 billion, Australia $45 billion). This means plenty of capital for employment-creating new manufacturing jobs, which entice rural folk seeking work in cities. The Thai currency is so strong that even recent political troubles have not budged it.

Contrary to a widespread perception, the country's main exports are not agricultural products, but cars & trucks, motorcycles & vehicle parts (made by foreign-owned subsidiary companies). Exported pick-up trucks, the biggest single-selling item, contain negligible imported parts. One Japanese manufacturer sources its world-wide production of one-ton pickups, including those sold in Japan, from its Thai factories. Machinery is another big export, as are components for computers and other electronic goods, textiles, garments & footwear, processed food and animal fodder. Way down the list of foreign-currency earners are rice, sugar and tourism.

Over the years the Thai government has routinely produced a trade surplus, a current-account surplus and (though not this year) a budget surplus.

Since 1960 (when Thaksin was 11) no "developing" country has exceeded Thailand in average annual per-capita GDP growth. The farmers are still poor by western standards, but they've had their share of this rising affluence, and they are better off than rural folk in any other nation on earth for which we reserve the term Third World. ✹

* All statistics quoted in this article were independently cross-referenced from at least three of these sources: UNICEF, UNDP, World Bank, Asian Devt. Bank, IMF, CIA, WHO, Bank of Thailand, Thai National Statistics Office. In no case is a figure quoted from purely Thai sources. In addition, plausibility comparisons were made with the statistics of a number of other countries.

[bapak]

Appologies for the length of the post, this was a piece by Robert Woodrow that I received by email - hence couldn't provide a link. Makes interesting reading though.....

The Down-Trodden Rural Poor of Thailand

May be long but well worth the space...