Life in Isaan

[Spitfire]

Agree, but this is not a red/yellow issue, it's practice is rampant everywhere, not just in Isaan, bet if you went to small rice farming villages near Chumphon etc it would be the same practice. The levels of corruption in the countryside are just as all encompassing as anywhere else and in these areas there is absolutely no/zero/dick/sweet FA accountability for any of these local businessmen or quasi-feudal state officials that are all in bed together.

As JD said, it's the collectors (first purchasers) and the millers that deserve the flak, along with officialdom for allowing it to be practiced in an overtly cynical fashion.

Rice simply passes through too many hands/middlemen before it gets to the general public customers and the government is unable, or more likely unwilling, to change it to the benefit of the farmer as too many vested interests are involved and local petty governors wine and dine with these business people and often owe their positions to these lot as they (business people) can generate blocks of votes when local elections happen every four years. These governors leave their positions stinking rich, opening personal businesses and biulding huge houses after 'robbing the kitty' to a greedy extent.

It's true, the average farmer is preyed on by the set-up/system in the countryside too, not just by city types, they find contempt for their plight everywhere and in so many.

Selfishness rules here in the Thai system and there's no religion, that's just for face these days, only the that matters the baht sign. It's not a 'Red' or 'Yellow' problem/issue, that's misdirection, the problem or issue is the system and its shortcomings in a modern informed world and its flaws are just going to become more apparent as time goes on.

A lot of change is needed here and its urgency is going to multiply quickly with the longer that nothing is done.

Sorry to be negative.......again.

[Big Boy]

The levels of corruption in the countryside are just as all encompassing as anywhere else and in these areas there is absolutely no/zero/dick/sweet FA accountability for any of these local businessmen or quasi-feudal state officials that are all in bed together.

Why use the word 'corruption'? Is there evidence of corruption, or is it easy to use the word because TIT? Surely each businessman in the chain is simply making his bit of profit. They all play a part in the process, and they all have to live.

A brewery brews a bottle of beer for a hell of a lot less money than the bar sells it for. Is this classed as making a profit, or corruption?

This problem isn't restricted to Thailand either. In Europe farmers are being forced to produce a pint of milk at a loss because of the buying power of the supermarkets - you still don't see a poor farmer though.

[PeteC]

JD is right. All rice are sold locally, mostly either in 50 kilo bags or 100 kilo bags.
The prices are set by the government and varies every month based on demand and supply. I.E. Standard and normal business regulations.

So, to interject this comment into SF's post and BB's reply, can one say that when the government pushes the price down due to market factors, the middlemen are taking their same cut regardless of the fluctuation and balancing that by further cutting the farmers share?

If so, I wouldn't be surprised. The low man is usually out, everywhere. Pete

[Spitfire]

Why use the word 'corruption'? Is there evidence of corruption, or is it easy to use the word because TIT?

Is that a rhetorical question?

There couldn't possibly be any of that now, could there?

What was I thinking?

[Big Boy]

Why use the word 'corruption'? Is there evidence of corruption, or is it easy to use the word because TIT?

Is that a rhetorical question?

There couldn't possibly be any of that now, could there?

What was I thinking?

Not having a go at you personally, it's just that I've seen the word used increasingly - often incorrectly. The problem I've got is that people start to assume everything is corrupt - sound business practice goes into disrepute.

[sargeant]

Norseman wrote

The prices are set by the government and varies every month based on demand and supply.

NMan i am not saying you are wrong i just do not understand every month
As far as i know rice is harvested once a year

JD remember i was quoting the new york spot price for rice and working it back and still noone has said how much a rice farmer gets per tonne or kilo

guilty mlud i was generalising about yellow shirts but the point i was making was there are middlemen and the elite creaming of the very much larger %age of the final price and the rice farmer who takes ALL the risk gets a pittance in comparison
almost every business i can think of the businessman that takes the risk gets the reward in the rice/agriculture business its arse about face.

[Spitfire]

Fair play BB, also not having a pop at you either, and don't want to sound nitpicky but that word generally goes for immoral, illegal or dishonest behaviour, especially from people in positions of power.

Get ready for retirement.

[Norseman]

As far as i know rice is harvested once a year

To be honest Sarge; I believe you don't know much about rice production.
Rice is produced up to three times pr year depending on what kind of rice you're talking about and the supply of water.
Some farmers produce once a year while others twice a year but again it's a matter of water supply.

[sargeant]

but to be fair to me i did say

i just do not understand

now obviously as you know all about rice prices harvests etc maybe you could be so kind and supply me with the price paid to a thai farmer per tonne or kilo as i originally requested thai jasmin if poss but any grade would help in baht

[Spitfire]

At the risk of me sounding silly, but I think we've already posted it Sarge on the previous page.

[STEVE G]

Where there has been corruption (of the traditional kind) in paddy rice buying is with the various government price pledging schemes that have been brought in to try to help farmers over the years.
The government buyers are authorised to buy up certain amounts at a guaranteed price, but these contracts are often filled from storage, so the profit either goes to government officials or rice millers in league with them, instead of the farmer.

As for price of paddy rice, I think it's in the region of 7,000-9,000 bt a tonne depending on quality, but I'll ask my partner when I call later.

[PeteC]

Where there has been corruption (of the traditional kind) in paddy rice buying is with the various government price pledging schemes that have been brought in to try to help farmers over the years.
The government buyers are authorised to buy up certain amounts at a guaranteed price, but these contracts are often filled from storage, so the profit either goes to government officials or rice millers in league with them, instead of the farmer.

As for price of paddy rice, I think it's in the region of 7,000-9,000 bt a tonne depending on quality, but I'll ask my partner when I call later.

There's something here Steve that I remember from reading. The storage factor is an endless cycle and the price is pushed down as the rice becomes old and sub-quality upon export contract, then the new rice subsequently becomes old and the cycle repeats.

I've seen nothing yet that convinces me the farmers aren't getting it in the pants. Pete

[Spitfire]

The price moves around a lot due to time of year and availability, amongst other factors, but is usually advertised on a board/sign on the road outside the collection point. In December the price tends to go down as everyone has rice to sell, if you have rice to sell in May/June then at these times of the year the price is higher as fewer have spare rice to sell, apart from, as Norseman says, the ones that can grow rice more than once a year due to closely available water, ie the artificial canals that run through some people's land and not others.

Steve is right about the government schemes to apparently help the farmer that only benefit the purchasers who have stock and they fill out the forms to make extra for themselves instead passing it on to who it was supposed to help as there is no-one to answer to for these business people. That sort of behaviour certainly falls into the above description of corruption and also backs up the selfishness aspect of an earlier post by someone.

[hhfarang]

Reading this thread reminds me of the old saying I used to hear a lot growing up... "So what does that have to do with the price of rice in China?"

[kendo]

Hi Sarge,
I was in my wifes village for last years harvest, this is what i learned about the whole process with a little help from my friend Ludo the only other farang in the village.
The workers were paid 150 -175 baht a day for starting at 8.00am and finishing around 4.00pm
The seperating machine that cuts the straw off the skin covered rice cost 400 baht per session and a few bottles of chang.

At night it seemed to rain a little so that was really bad news as the farmer would have to purchase this green debris netting and roll it out to dry the rice on usually done on the roads as that is allways a hotter surfice, if they weigh rice in with a high moisture content they will get 2-3 baht less per kilo.

Around our area of Surin there are many rice mills and very well organized rice merchants with weigh bridges and testing equipment, when you weigh in you are directed to one side where a man at random will take samples from the middle of verious sacks using this metal probe it then gets put on to some digital scales and then into this clever machine that spins around and on compleation of its cycle will display a reading of its moisture content, these are two very important factors to how much you will be offered for your rice.

We found that the price displayed varyied by 2 baht so we went to one rice merchant, got offered 12 baht a kilo then went to another one a bit further away and got offered the same price so we excepted this, as the rice was a little moist.
I asked why this guy next to us only got offed 8 baht a kilo it turns out that his rice had been cut with a machine so was worth a lot less than hand cut rice.

My friend Ludo an ex bank manager buys as much rice as he can store, as 6 months later you will get 20 baht plus per kilo allmost double so you can just imagine these rice traders stock piling and making a killing on it, but i guess thats grass roots free economics.

As i understand that there is far less money to be made out of sugar cane, but the banks have special loans to encorage farmers to grow this.

One of the better one's to farm in Surin is eucalyptus for its oil and used for paper production in this part of Isaan fruit does not really grow hence why the majority still grow rice.

Kendo.