Tea Money is not corruption... apparently

[Jaime]

Or so this blog from The Nation would have you believe:

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/print.php?id=3252

I love the example cited for the policeman. I'm sure that the victims of the road traffic accident 5 minutes later were pleased that the policeman's son got a nice birthday cake...

[MrPlum]

There is a mythology that goes 'The Police are there to serve the public'. Many westerners have been taught this and I'm amazed they still believe it. It's not true, no matter what country you are in. The Police are there to stop the poor stealing from the rich and hanging them from the nearest branch. Their primary function is to control you and collect taxes, which they extract for a myriad of petty 'offences'. In many countries militarized Police are a tool of State repression. Real crimes are not addressed since they provide a justification for the state to increase its power. They are also not addressed because the State is the biggest thief of them all.

It's daft to get upset at a 200thb fine when the money powers are stiffing us for millions with a usurious money system that is utterly counterfeit. Every time a bank produces money out of thin air you are being defrauded. Every time you are forced to pay your 'taxes' (or go to jail) you are the subject of a crime. Governments can print their own money with zero interest if they wanted. Instead, a bunch of thieves has forced a system upon you, which robs you every day and you are so blind to the theft that instead of going after them with a pitchfork, you focus on some minor irritation which, let's face it, happens rarely.

In the UK every single man and woman in the country is now liable for government debt of 76,000 UKP EACH. In the U.S. trillions can never be paid off. Bankers may not be hiding behind bushes at the side of the road to rob you but they are doing it on a scale which makes Police fines look like peanuts.

If the Police were really there to 'protect and serve', every single last thieving banker and politician would be breaking rocks.

'Tea money' IMHO is the wrong issue to get upset about.

[MrPlum]

It's not Thailand but here's an example of motoring 'offences' being used to balance state budgets... http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r ... Collectors

Now I know they wouldn't get fined if there wasn't an 'offence' committed but when the aim is revenue collection and not traffic safety, it's hard not to see it as highway robbery.

[Spitfire]

'Tea money' is merely a euphemism.

I suppose 'bribe' or 'corruption' is the dysphemism.

[miked]

Mr Plum wrote
Every time a bank produces money out of thin air you are being defrauded.


it had to happen eventually, at last we agree on something.!!
miked

[Terry]

So........

Let's try 'extortion', 'blackmail', 'protection' - it's all the same shite to me

[sandman67]

MrP is correct. 30 years ago Id have torn a stripe off him. Post the Thatcher years and Miners Strike that all changed. Ask a senior officer now and they will tell you that the Police are no longer public servants...an honest (retired) one will anyway. Thats why its hard to find a good copper now...all young idiots in paramilitary gear. The years of the friendly common sense village beat bobby are long long gone. It started with the the cars, and ended with the Miners and Race Riots.

Thats also why no-one likes or trusts em any more. When I was a kid Id look forward to Saturday afternoon visits by Sgt Murphy the senior beat copper who always called in on my gran and grandad to see everything was OK in the street and have a cuppa. Hed tell us stories of what was happening, and ask if any of the oldies needed a look in. A bag of mint imperials in his pocket an an big friendly grin were his main tools of business. A proper old school beat copper through and through. The riots saw his career over, as he said he was getting too old for all that.The sarge even gave me his old dinner suit when I grew up more so I could go to formal school bashes without hiiring one. Hes probably a big reason I stayed on the narrow and went into the Civil Service.

Now Id run a mile if I saw a copper coming.

Corruption is corruption no matter how you dress it up. As Barry says, shall we instead refer to it as what it is...extortion, blackmail and protection money?

[STEVE G]

It is a big problem in many asian countries that the average policemans salary is so low that they're forced to be corrupt to actually make a living wage.
This also has the effect of only encouraging corrupt people to join the force as you really wouldn't bother otherwise.

[Korkenzieher]

There is an issue there raised by Plum which I think is correct, and vastly misunderstood by the public at large that generally tends to support the extension of the penal code. And that is that the development of criminal law has moved from protection of the weak into a system which exists simply to support a burgeoning judiciary. Target driven policing (yes, Thatcher!) is, in my opinion, largely to blame but there isn't much doubt in my mind that victimless crime exists largely for the purpose of criminalising the population at large, so that everyone has something to hide, and is therefore less likely to rock the boat. We would (certainly in the UK) get rid of a lot of bad feeling towards the police and authority in general by adopting the Spanish approach with at least civil code crime, in that in order for there to be a crime, there must be a victim - meaning someone has to formally make claim.

[caller]

victimless crime

What's a victimless crime?

Just curious.

[STEVE G]

All police forces basically target motorists as easy targets in that for some reason when people get into a car they start breaking rules.
I've been working in Europe since 2001 without having a car and I don't give the police a second thought as I really don't do anything that would give them reason to have anything to do with me and I certainly have nothing to hide.
As for the Thai police, I've been led to understand that you have to pay a back-hander to get a position in the police academy to join in the first place, so there isn't much chance of recruiting anyone who is against corruption!

[STEVE G]

victimless crime

What's a victimless crime?

Just curious.

If you get stopped for drink-driving without having caused a problem, it could be argued that there is no victim even though you're guilty of a crime under UK law.
I'm not supporting drink-driving, but it does appear to me to be a victimless crime.

[caller]

victimless crime

What's a victimless crime?

Just curious.

If you get stopped for drink-driving without having caused a problem, it could be argued that there is no victim even though you're guilty of a crime under UK law.
I'm not supporting drink-driving, but it does appear to me to be a victimless crime.

But surely that's a 'preventitive offence' to stop folk being killed or maimed by drunk-drivers, if the law wasn't there, things would get out of hand, which is why it was introduced. Fines generally aren't that heavy, minimum 12 months loss of licence is. I don't think it's a law most rationale folk would argue against? And now they're finally getting around to targeting drug-drivers who seemingly are now more prevalent than the drinkers (and yes, there but for the grace of God, go I - occasionally).

[Korkenzieher]

In UK law, you were originally supposed to have committed a cautionable driving offence before you could be stopped and breathalysed. I think that would cover most circumstances. It could be argued that random testing reduces the incidence of driving under the influence, but the problem is that the 'grey areas' are being pushed further in the direction of the erosion of civil liberty. The arguments on speed cameras are a very good area to look at that - in only 6% of all accidents is speed considered to have been an issue, and even then not necessarily the main contributing factor. There is an outcry about cameras being installed, and then there is an outcry about taking them away. There will always be antagonists on either side of an argument, but when 94% of accidents are nothing to do with speeding - perhaps tailgating or even alcohol are more influential - then the rationale is lost and people lose faith in the system.

North Yorkshire has no speed cameras. None. Are it's traffic figures the worst in the land? No. And that includes some of the most dangerous country roads anywhere, some of the fastest and least well maintained sections of the A1 (bare junctions onto side roads with almost no slip-road, unmarked crossings for the same through the central reservation etc. etc.). There just is simply no way to draw a direct relationship here between the erosion of common sense and liberty on the one side, and the protection of society on the other. There's plenty of other examples - look at the farce in Cumbria with Squrrels as an example.

[STEVE G]

Yes, I'm certainly not condoning drink-driving, it was just an example of a victimless crime.