Tea Money is not corruption... apparently

[caller]

So the examples provided are speeeding offences and Gatso's, those big shiny yellow things that can be seen a mile off, where most slow down and having passed, speed up again. I don't like them, but they are a preventative and we have pretty safe driving in the UK and importantly, most cameras lack a vital ingrediant - film - and they are now being put into mothballs in lots of places and revenues raised from those that exceed the speed limit and get caught are massively down from their height of a few years ago.

As a victimless crime, it's a pretty limp example IMHO.

[sparrowman]

Up to you
If you don't want to pay tea money, don't pay it. Ask for an official ticket and go to the monkey house to pay double that which you would have paid the policeman or just hand over the baht, smile and drive on

[Jaime]

I have to say I'm disappointed that many of the responses to this thread focus on a presumed irritation at having to pay a 200 baht backhander. It's completely missing the point. Personally, I couldn't give a monkey's about the 200 baht - it's fairly irrelevant. I suspect that many others feel the same way.

Yes we know there are bent cops everywhere and we know that they enforce 'the system' as much as the laws but here in the UK I have NEVER been asked to pay a bribe after being stopped either as part of a routine check or after having been caught speeding. In Thailand it is commonplace and even anticipated/expected by motorists.

The premise of the article was that this blatant form of extortion is NOT a form of corruption. Whatever the reasons behind the practice of requesting tea money, I find that premise laughable - arrogant even.

As in other threads about education, if Thailand wants or expects to be measured against more developed countries this mindset has to change. It's one thing to ask for 200 baht because you aren't wearing a helmet, quite another to ask for 500 baht because you are driving whilst dangerously drunk and yet another when you have committed a serious crime but can simply buy your way out of justice. It's all 'tea money.'

Edit:

Re: Speeding.

Speeding may not be a factor in the frequency of accidents but it is definitely a factor in the relative severity of accidents. That is the point. Some stats copied from an online insurance website:

•20 mph - in a car accident involving a pedestrian at this speed there is a one in 40 chance the pedestrian will be killed.
•30 mph - in a car accident involving a pedestrian at this speed there is a one in five chance the pedestrian will be killed.
•35 mph - in a car accident involving a pedestrian at this speed there is a one in two chance the pedestrian will be killed.
•40 mph - in a car accident involving a pedestrian at this speed there is a nine in ten chance the pedestrian will be killed.

Anyway I digress - back to topic!

[Spitfire]

Speeding may not be a factor in the frequency of accidents...

Hi Jamie, never really have a quibble with any of your posts but that, speed, definitely is a factor in the frequency of accidents here in LOS along with a list of others like always wanting to be first and nothing short of harbouring indifference to everyone else on the road etc, the list goes on.

However, your analogy of speed intensifying accident outcome is totally justified.

However, sorry if I have misread or inferred anything incorrectly from your post or if you were not referring to Thailand.

[Jaime]

Yeah - maybe my post was misleading. What I meant to post was that I don't actually know if speed is a contributory factor (even though my instinct tells me it must be) in the frequency of accidents but that I do know that speed is definitely a factor in the severity of the outcome.

It was specifically in response to this post earlier in the thread:

The arguments on speed cameras are a very good area to look at that - in only 6% of all accidents is speed considered to have been an issue, and even then not necessarily the main contributing factor.

Anyway...

Back to tea money......

I have to say I'm disappointed that many of the responses to this thread focus on a presumed irritation at having to pay a 200 baht backhander. It's completely missing the point. Personally, I couldn't give a monkey's about the 200 baht - it's fairly irrelevant. I suspect that many others feel the same way.

Yes we know there are bent cops everywhere and we know that they enforce 'the system' as much as the laws but here in the UK I have NEVER been asked to pay a bribe after being stopped either as part of a routine check or after having been caught speeding. In Thailand it is commonplace and even anticipated/expected by motorists.

The premise of the article was that this blatant form of extortion is NOT a form of corruption. Whatever the reasons behind the practice of requesting tea money, I find that premise laughable - arrogant even.

As in other threads about education, if Thailand wants or expects to be measured against more developed countries this mindset has to change. It's one thing to ask for 200 baht because you aren't wearing a helmet, quite another to ask for 500 baht because you are driving whilst dangerously drunk and yet another when you have committed a serious crime but can simply buy your way out of justice. It's all 'tea money.'

[STEVE G]

I have to say that the situation in Thailand does seem to have improved a little in that I drive a couple of thousand kilometers everytime I visit Thailand and I haven't been hassled by the police for a while now.
I've got no problems with sticking to the laws of the road but I used to get stopped all the time when driving on the Bangkok expressway for no reason whatsoever by police trying to extort money.
Once, to prove a point, I drove the whole way over the city at 80kmh and got stopped and accused of doing 120!

[MrPlum]

Once, to prove a point, I drove the whole way over the city at 80kmh and got stopped and accused of doing 120!

So you saved more money in fuel than you paid in fines. I hope you thanked the nice policeman.

[STEVE G]

Once, to prove a point, I drove the whole way over the city at 80kmh and got stopped and accused of doing 120!

So you saved more money in fuel than you paid in fines. I hope you thanked the nice policeman.

Actually my partner gave him an earful and then went to the police station to see the speed camera picture he swore they had.
When she asked to see the picture they laughed and told us to carry on with our journey.

[PeteC]

Time and time again, just about everyday, I see them only pulling over pick-up trucks. I have no idea why unless the truth or scam is that they're looking for contraband. They must know the average Thai in a pick up truck wont have more than a 100 Baht or so to hand over. Seems they should target the import cars, big sedans and suv's...but then again they may be scared those people have connections and/or would give them a chewing out. Remains mysterious to me. Pete

[margaretcarnes]

I agree with SM in principal that the days when police (in the UK) were respected are long gone. But the nature of crime has changed significantly since those days. 40/50 years ago Joe Public didn't often go around drugged out of their heads and armed. Nor did they get so hammered as to become a danger to themselves and others on the streets. Armed robberies were the stuff of train robbers and the East End - and rare.
While other countries such as Thailand must be seeing much the same changes and trends, there are still the common driving offences to deal with as well. In the West 'on the spot' fines serve to ease the burden on Police Stations and Courts, which is fair enough. In Thailand those on the spot fines turn into tea money. Either way cash changes hands. The only difference being that in Thailand it doesn't find it's way into public funds - instead it supplements low pay.

[Jaime]

In the West 'on the spot' fines serve to ease the burden on Police Stations and Courts, which is fair enough. In Thailand those on the spot fines turn into tea money. Either way cash changes hands. The only difference being that in Thailand it doesn't find it's way into public funds - instead it supplements low pay.

That isn't the point!

[Takiap]

Well, I know I have the wrong attitude, and forgive me for saying this, but I couldn't care less about who actually gets to keep the money when you pay a fine. In fact, I'd rather the policeman puts it in his pocket. He has more reason to steal from me that the state. Let's just say, you or I ain't gonna change nothing, and while I know it's wrong, I enjoy Thailand just the way it is.

Also, it's not an easy thing to change. For example.........

A bar must close at 01:00am, the owner pays the police and can then stay open as long they want. The police win, the bar owner wins, and the customers/tourists win. So, everyone wins apart from the state. In this case, it serves them right for having introduced a stupid law which the public in general don't support. By introducing a stupid law which the majority have not called for, they simply provide another opportunity for corruption.

And, if you are at all under the impression that you can buy your way out of justice when it involves a real crime, I wouldn't count on it if I was you. Maybe it does happen on occasions, but certainly not as often as what some say.

Lastly, as far as "tee money" is concerned.............as a Thai once explained to me, it's not a bribe, but instead, it's just a kind gesture

[OscarMike]

And, if you are at all under the impression that you can buy your way out of justice when it involves a real crime, I wouldn't count on it if I was you.

That is not always the case in sunny Hua Hin.