100's of Foetuses found in Bangkok Wat

[Jaime]

BBC article here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11769269

[PeteC]

I know. I couldn't bring myself to comment on it when I read it inthe BKK Post this morning. More here. Pete

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... ple-morgue

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Un ... 42379.html

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2010/11 ... 42428.html

[PeteC]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... on-clinics

[pharvey]

Not exactly the cheeriest of news Abortion is an extremely difficult subject anywhere let alone in somewhere like Thailand with the strong religious views.

I also seem to remember reading some time ago of something similar in Thailand (possibly Bangkok) of where numerous foetuses were found in jars, but preserved in Formaldehyde. Whether or not this would be related to illegal abortions or not is another issue.

[margaretcarnes]

I'm afraid that unless Thailands abortion laws are changed, (probably never) this will inevitably continue to happen. You have to wonder whether the mothers who aborted suffered injury as well, which makes the whole thing even worse IMO.
We only have to go back to about the 60's - can't remember exactly when UK law was changed - and it was happening in the UK too. There the foetuses often ended up down the toilet. Remember the movie 'Alfie'? Or women tried to self abort. Hot baths, gin and knitting needles.
I guess that in this case in Bangkok someone has at least tried to put the unborn babes to rest with Buddha, pending the result of investigations of course. All very sad.

[PeteC]

This gets more bizarre and sad as the days go by. Pete

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2010/11 ... 42573.html

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... -at-temple

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... us-scandal

[Takiap]

Not exactly the cheeriest of news Abortion is an extremely difficult subject anywhere let alone in somewhere like Thailand with the strong religious views.

Judging from how often this happens, perhaps their religious views aren't as strong as we would like to believe.

Now, I ain't no preacher, and neither am I a woman, but I do know a woman can get an abortion long before it gets to a stage where there's a body to dump. I personally know of two women in Thailand who went for an abortion, and in both cases it was nothing more than an induced period as such. Is it really necessary to wait so long before deciding you don't want the child after all?

[Takiap]

In one article there is mention of some abortions being done eight months into the pregnancy. That is NOT abortion - it's MURDER, and I can only hope those responsible rot in hell.

[Nereus]

In one article there is mention of some abortions being done eight months into the pregnancy. That is NOT abortion - it's MURDER, and I can only hope those responsible rot in hell.

Abortion is always going to be an emotive issue, influenced by an individuals upbringing and beliefs.
But it has to be asked just how many more "foetus`s" survived and were then killed.

Quote " Ms Lanjakorn said she began the abortion service in August. She performed abortions because she needed money to take care of eight children who survived abortions.
The children are now aged from 12 months to 8 years."

No matter what you views, beliefs or religion is, yes, that is murder.

[margaretcarnes]

In one article there is mention of some abortions being done eight months into the pregnancy. That is NOT abortion - it's MURDER, and I can only hope those responsible rot in hell.

The problem is in determining at what stage in a pregnancy the foetus is viable. At 8 months yes - certainly - and perhaps those were either exceptions or there was something seriously wrong with the babys. Or maybe it's just TIT and money talks.

Whatever - unless Thailands' stance on abortion DOES change there can be no hope of controlling time limits as other countries do. Even then medical opinion still varies on what is right.

[Vital Spark]

Abortion is legal in Thailand (but they don't want anyone to know ).

The PDA run clinics in most provinces and provide safe and inexpensive abortions for those who want them. It's an NGO, so it's out of the government's hands, but they (the government) know that they provide a much needed service in a developing country.

There's no need for any woman to go to a 'backstreet' clinic, but I guess, because the PDA cannot actually advertise that they do abortions, some of the women think that the dangerous and in their minds illegal way is the only option.

VS

[Nereus]

Abortion is legal in Thailand (but they don't want anyone to know ).

The PDA run clinics in most provinces and provide safe and inexpensive abortions for those who want them. It's an NGO, so it's out of the government's hands, but they (the government) know that they provide a much needed service in a developing country.

There's no need for any woman to go to a 'backstreet' clinic, but I guess, because the PDA cannot actually advertise that they do abortions, some of the women think that the dangerous and in their minds illegal way is the only option.

VS

That`a broad ambiguous statement, VS. As far as I know the law states that 3 conditions must exist: pregnancy as the the result of rape / incest, the mothers life is in danger if the pregnancy is not terminated, or the the foetus is found to be abnormal.
Seems to me if it was "legal" then there would be no demand for the type of clinics carrying it out.

edit to add the following:

Democrat MP mounts bid to legalise abortion

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... e-abortion
The grisly discovery of 2,002 foetuses at a Bangkok temple has revived campaigns to legalise abortion among legislators and women groups.


Sathit: Trying to convince the boss
Democrat MP for Rayong Sathit Pitutecha yesterday proposed that a bill on "consensual and necessary abortion" be drafted to give women more options when dealing with unwanted pregnancies.

Mr Sathit said he would begin drafting the bill and campaign for support in the hope of submitting it to the House during the next parliamentary session starting in February.

The proposed bill would call for the setting up of a committee to consider an abortion request from a pregnant woman or her guardians. An applicant with "necessary qualifications" would be allowed to end her pregnancy, he said.

The law permits an abortion if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, or if it endangers the mother's life.

The Democrat MP said the law should be broadened to include other cases including pregnancy among minors or pregnancies among women who have insufficient mental capacity to rear the baby.

Only registered clinics would be allowed to perform the abortions, Mr Sathit said.

Democrat leader and Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has insisted that there is no need for a change in the law to solve illegal abortions, as the law is based on Medical Council regulations which, in his view, are "good enough".

Mr Sathit said he was trying to convince the prime minister that relaxing the law would reduce fatalities and accidents among pregnant women who undertake unsafe illegal abortions.

It would also put an end to the illegal abortion business and reduce family problems.

"Let me make it clear that legalising abortion is not liberising abortion," Mr Sathit said.

"The bill will not make it easier for a mother to end her pregnancy. Each case must be considered carefully by a committee of experts and social workers."

Maytinee Bhongsvej, of the Association for the Promotion of the Status of Women (APSW), said social workers and women's aid groups had been pushing for an abortion law for more than two decades.

Ms Maytinee does not think the discovery of foetuses at Wat Phai Ngern Chotanaram will be a turning point.

"People's attitudes are the major obstacle. For Thai society, abortion is a sin," she said.

"But as a person working in this area, I think the bill will give mothers more options to deal with the problem of unwanted pregnancy."

The sensitivity of abortion law has resulted in the exclusion of clauses that set criteria for legal abortions from a bill on reproductive health which has gone to public hearings, she said.

The APSW-run emergency home for women receives an average of 140 women with unwanted pregnancies every year, she said.

The APSW and 44 other state and non-governmental organisations working on women's issues on Saturday issued a statement calling on the government to provide safe abortions for women to prevent them from using unsafe services at unhygienic, illegal premises.

"Abortion should be permitted if the woman has been raped, is younger than 15, and could be mentally and physically affected if the pregnancy is continued," they said.

Kanrawee Daoruang, coordinator of the Choice Group which helps women with unwanted pregnancies, said a 2005 Medical Council regulation on ending pregnancies allows doctors to perform abortions under certain conditions.

However, no doctor dares perform them under this regulation because they fear criminal action.

She said the government should provide facilities to care for women with unwanted pregnancies. "If a woman knows that she still has somewhere to go and someone to help take care of her and the baby, she might choose options other than aborting the baby."

2nd edit to add the following:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... et-exposed

Granny's dark secret exposed
The discovery of foetuses at a temple has a community in shock
Published: 22/11/2010 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News

[margaretcarnes]

My understanding of the criteria for legal abortion is the same as Nereus - perhaps the PDA clinics are only performing legal ones? Or somehow circumventing the law which seems strange even allowing for the TIT factor. Do you have any more info VS?
But that MP Sathit is taking a brave stance - will the Boss be turned? He has said not, and for a guy with the education Abhisit has had you would think he would at least have discussed some options before giving such a blunt 'no'.
Do Cabinet proposals have to go before some sort of council of monks? Just curious

[Vital Spark]

Mags: I do have more info., but I wouldn't like to publish it on a public forum which may jeopardise the work that this charity is doing.

As we all know, 'laws' in Thailand are bendy flexy.

VS

[Spitfire]

A difficult subject to comment on here, perhaps this speaks for some............



...........on many other subject too, ironically.