Anyone who has spent any time in Thailand with their eyes open knows who is exploiting whom. Of course lots of the girls get as hard as hell and extract money from lots of sponsors. When the brief fling is over the thai girl goes back to the internet and texts and the grinding poverty of a families never ending demands, a country without a health service provision, no pension, a life of STDs and possibly aids and all the attendant pleasures of being groped in public by a physically repulsive octogenarian. She walks hand in hand, french kisses and caresses on the street, hating every minute of it and is despised for it...............and made aware of that by every ordinary Thai who comes into contact with her. And the punter? He goes back to his house worth a thai kings ransom in his home country, tells himself that he can still pull. That Thai girls like older men (checkout their posters in their rooms...........all boy bands) that his paunch is because of the weight of his genitals. He has his pension, a health service a comfortable life and home and all the young Thai pussy he can eat.
They are prostitutes.
They do it for a variety of reasons, sometimes its the glamour of city life and the alternative of hard dirty farm work, they love their friends in the bars, but mostly its because with their level of education and the families bills they have no other option. All the guys who tell themselves its the girls who have the power should ask themselves how they would have fancied being groped in public by an 80 year old woman when they were 17. The girls find it physically distressing most of the time and certainly dont enjoy the sex however much they might fake it for a bigger tip.
I can see what the woman falang was getting at and I can see what some of the guys are saying, the truth is for lots of girls the nature of the "relationship" is a grey area, but don't lets pretend that the girls have the power. Give them the money that the average falang has and they would quit the life straight away and get a Thai boyfriend most probably. They do it because they feel they have no choice. The one with the chequebook has the power and given that the girl has the beauty, the youth and often the brains if not the education, what else can the average punter offer if not money.
If you need to use prostitutes give it a name and recognise it for what it is. the girls deserve at least that honesty and respect.
Who is exploiting who
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Wanderlust
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A definition of exploitation - an act that exploits or victimizes someone (treats them unfairly).
roberto - although what you say is correct to a certain extent, a lot is not (for example I don't think that even 2% of farang punters seen with bar girls are octogenarians) and you try to imply that it is the farang that is exploiting the girls, whereas your own post reveals that it is the girls' very own families that are the exploiters -
I've already mentioned it, but what is your particular objection to older men (who may have been widowed or even left by their wives for a younger man) having a 'fling' with some pretty young thing, and possibly even settling with her, even if she was a prostitute? If anything, I imagine it is likely to be a far more successful 'relationship' than one involving a younger man as both parties will be more flexible and realistic.
I am also intrigued by your insights into the Thai girls' mindset -
roberto - although what you say is correct to a certain extent, a lot is not (for example I don't think that even 2% of farang punters seen with bar girls are octogenarians) and you try to imply that it is the farang that is exploiting the girls, whereas your own post reveals that it is the girls' very own families that are the exploiters -
- and you ignore totally the fact that prostitution is rife amongst Thai men with Thai girls. All of these girls could get jobs in a factory or such like regardless of their education, but the pay is terrible, and they would have to work 6 days a week and probably 10 hours a day. Not much choice I agree, but still a choice if the Thai society frowns so much on prostitution. The fact is that many Thai families, particularly in Isaan, will coerce their daughters to go on the game by making them feel guilty about providing for the family, despite the fact that the father and numerous brothers will just sit around drinking and gambling that money away.When the brief fling is over the thai girl goes back to the internet and texts and the grinding poverty of a families never ending demands
I've already mentioned it, but what is your particular objection to older men (who may have been widowed or even left by their wives for a younger man) having a 'fling' with some pretty young thing, and possibly even settling with her, even if she was a prostitute? If anything, I imagine it is likely to be a far more successful 'relationship' than one involving a younger man as both parties will be more flexible and realistic.
I am also intrigued by your insights into the Thai girls' mindset -
- how do you know this? I can imagine that this might be the case, but I suppose that you have conducted an intensive survey to state this fact? For what it's worth, my impression from the few conversations I have had or overheard on this subject is that most farangs treat the girls better in every way than their Thai counterparts, and particularly in bed. I am sure it is just as physically distressing, if not more so, to be slapped around by a drunk Thai husband/boyfriend as their form of foreplay before being unceremoniously mounted for a minute or two before the relief of him rolling off and starting to snore. Thai women are, in general, 'owned' and exploited by their families and spouses, and Thai society at large. This does not just apply to prostitutes either. Incidentally, when you say -The girls find it physically distressing most of the time and certainly dont enjoy the sex however much they might fake it for a bigger tip.
- I think you'll find that the girls would rather just be called girls or women, or more correctly 'pu ying'.If you need to use prostitutes give it a name and recognise it for what it is. the girls deserve at least that honesty and respect.
Great post Wanderlust.
For me, the only people doing the real 'exploiting' is the family and/or Thai boyfriend that pressures her to earn like this and then live off the proceeds. Parasites, springs to mind.
It's worth noting that many many of the girls and the farang's are not trying to 'use' or 'exploit' each other, but the opposite in fact, they're looking for a husband/wife to settle down with.
Then there's the one's who are 'using' each other, the girls who are not interested in the farang, only his money, (maybe they have a Thai boyfriend or whatever), and the farang who's over on holiday and/or married and only wants to get his end away. In this case, can't see either side is 'exploiting' the other, merely just a mutual 'using' of what each has to offer. Can't see anything wrong with that, everyone's a winner. I'm sure 90% of the farangs treat the girls well and with respect, the same definately can't be said for Thai geezers.
Oh, and as for octogenarians, when I find out what that means, I'll be sure to comment
Burger
For me, the only people doing the real 'exploiting' is the family and/or Thai boyfriend that pressures her to earn like this and then live off the proceeds. Parasites, springs to mind.
It's worth noting that many many of the girls and the farang's are not trying to 'use' or 'exploit' each other, but the opposite in fact, they're looking for a husband/wife to settle down with.
Then there's the one's who are 'using' each other, the girls who are not interested in the farang, only his money, (maybe they have a Thai boyfriend or whatever), and the farang who's over on holiday and/or married and only wants to get his end away. In this case, can't see either side is 'exploiting' the other, merely just a mutual 'using' of what each has to offer. Can't see anything wrong with that, everyone's a winner. I'm sure 90% of the farangs treat the girls well and with respect, the same definately can't be said for Thai geezers.
Oh, and as for octogenarians, when I find out what that means, I'll be sure to comment
Burger
'
My, my, my! First post and so proliferately precious precociously prejudicial preconceptions.
Octogenarian, I suspect, is a type of cephalopod. Like some sort of squid or sumthin.
In this context surely an octopussy?
My, my, my! First post and so proliferately precious precociously prejudicial preconceptions.
Octogenarian, I suspect, is a type of cephalopod. Like some sort of squid or sumthin.
In this context surely an octopussy?
"There's no plausible or convincing reason, certainly no evidential one, to believe that there is such an entity (= deity) and that all observable phenomena, including the cosmological ones... are explicable without the hypothesis; you don't need the assumption."
Why not Steve?STEVE G wrote: two years after the relationship ends I'm not still paying 50 pounds an hour for a solicitor!
I do like these exploited farangs.
Keep up your volume of postings and get into the night crawlers section.
We might learn something.
I intend to live forever - so far so good.
Everyone seems to be experts on the subject but we can only judge by our own experiences. Those that comment that the girls are exploited by farangs, that they hate what they are doing, and would rather have a proper job, have either had a really bad experience or have never been with a bar girl.
Personally I have always treated girls with respect and done my best to give them a good time too. I dont know whether I actually succeeded or not but they always left with a nice smile and asked to see me again.
And for me the sex was great. The more you put in the more you get out of it...if you see what I mean.
Personally I have always treated girls with respect and done my best to give them a good time too. I dont know whether I actually succeeded or not but they always left with a nice smile and asked to see me again.
And for me the sex was great. The more you put in the more you get out of it...if you see what I mean.
Pommy
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Guess
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It is difficult to add to the response to the posting by Roberto as it has been so elequently answered to by the wishful traveller and the meat pate with the astute peice of of highlighting by the Celtic rider.
However I will stick my oar in. The posting came across to me as a streotyping characterisation of certain way of life from an outside perspective. I have lived in the area where these girls were brought up and seen many examples and heard many opinions of reasons for girls deciding to adopt a way of life that seems alien to westerners, despite the fact they (Westerners) support it. I have also been in two separate environments where girls from the North East have travelled to to seek the only employment that they believe is open to them.
What I believe is that for every girl/woman (or boy/man) involved in the seedier life of Thailand there will be a different story. The commonalities are few. One obvious common difference between here and the West (Including the middle East , North Africa and the Indian Sub-continent) is that the profession is acceptable among most social and ethnic backgounds (BTW this is not necessarily true in South Thailand). There fore girls can happily go about the lives in there chosen profession without having to hide in corners and lie to others.
To respond point by point:
Anyone who has spent any time in Thailand with their eyes open knows who is exploiting whom.
The please enlighten me because I do not.
..........the thai girl goes back to the internet and texts and the grinding poverty of a families never ending demands...
Internet??? Not a chance. Text maybe but undecipherable.
........a country without a health service provision, no pension.....
Thailand has a good health system and a low cost subsidised scheme that allows people with very low incomes tom visit a local doctor. Pension schemes areadily available her but most choose not to enrol.
.....and all the attendant pleasures of being groped in public by a physically repulsive octogenarian....
This is a gross exageration. There a very few farang Octogenarians in Thailand. The chosen life style of farangs tends not to lend itself to longevity of life. There some age differences greater than you would see in the street in the West but the prositution trade is mostly behind closed doors and only the girl or boy can gues at the age of theire customer.
......She walks hand in hand, french kisses and caresses on the street, hating every minute of it and is despised for it....
That sort of behaviour is taboo (calm down Jaime) in Thailand and protocol is usually adhered to. Who despises her for it? My opinion is that no Thai person would do anything that they hated. They can of course like all humans be capable of occasionally making folls of themselves in public usually fuled by alcohol.
They do it for a variety of reasons, sometimes its the glamour of city life and the alternative of hard dirty farm work, they love their friends in the bars, but mostly its because with their level of education and the families bills they have no other option.
I have to agree with most of that except it is an alternative to work, forget the hardy dirty farm bit. That is mostly uinavailable tom them as well. You have hit the nail on the head with the eduaction piece. The lack of education close many career doors. There are however many opportunities that do not require basic numary and literacy skills but when the salary is half or a quarter of that for prositution then the obvious choice is made. Try getting a cleaner or labourer (male or female) in Hua Hin.
Prostitutes are recognised in Thailand but the categorised names such as bar girl, massage parlour girl, street walker and many others are used rather than the generic word.
As for your viewpoint on Thai husbands, I am very interested in where you get the evidence. I have seen many cases of one sided abuse by both sexes in an all Thai relationship but it is certainly not the norm. I believe Thai marriages have a greter success than those in the West.
However I will stick my oar in. The posting came across to me as a streotyping characterisation of certain way of life from an outside perspective. I have lived in the area where these girls were brought up and seen many examples and heard many opinions of reasons for girls deciding to adopt a way of life that seems alien to westerners, despite the fact they (Westerners) support it. I have also been in two separate environments where girls from the North East have travelled to to seek the only employment that they believe is open to them.
What I believe is that for every girl/woman (or boy/man) involved in the seedier life of Thailand there will be a different story. The commonalities are few. One obvious common difference between here and the West (Including the middle East , North Africa and the Indian Sub-continent) is that the profession is acceptable among most social and ethnic backgounds (BTW this is not necessarily true in South Thailand). There fore girls can happily go about the lives in there chosen profession without having to hide in corners and lie to others.
To respond point by point:
Anyone who has spent any time in Thailand with their eyes open knows who is exploiting whom.
The please enlighten me because I do not.
..........the thai girl goes back to the internet and texts and the grinding poverty of a families never ending demands...
Internet??? Not a chance. Text maybe but undecipherable.
........a country without a health service provision, no pension.....
Thailand has a good health system and a low cost subsidised scheme that allows people with very low incomes tom visit a local doctor. Pension schemes areadily available her but most choose not to enrol.
.....and all the attendant pleasures of being groped in public by a physically repulsive octogenarian....
This is a gross exageration. There a very few farang Octogenarians in Thailand. The chosen life style of farangs tends not to lend itself to longevity of life. There some age differences greater than you would see in the street in the West but the prositution trade is mostly behind closed doors and only the girl or boy can gues at the age of theire customer.
......She walks hand in hand, french kisses and caresses on the street, hating every minute of it and is despised for it....
That sort of behaviour is taboo (calm down Jaime) in Thailand and protocol is usually adhered to. Who despises her for it? My opinion is that no Thai person would do anything that they hated. They can of course like all humans be capable of occasionally making folls of themselves in public usually fuled by alcohol.
They do it for a variety of reasons, sometimes its the glamour of city life and the alternative of hard dirty farm work, they love their friends in the bars, but mostly its because with their level of education and the families bills they have no other option.
I have to agree with most of that except it is an alternative to work, forget the hardy dirty farm bit. That is mostly uinavailable tom them as well. You have hit the nail on the head with the eduaction piece. The lack of education close many career doors. There are however many opportunities that do not require basic numary and literacy skills but when the salary is half or a quarter of that for prositution then the obvious choice is made. Try getting a cleaner or labourer (male or female) in Hua Hin.
Prostitutes are recognised in Thailand but the categorised names such as bar girl, massage parlour girl, street walker and many others are used rather than the generic word.
As for your viewpoint on Thai husbands, I am very interested in where you get the evidence. I have seen many cases of one sided abuse by both sexes in an all Thai relationship but it is certainly not the norm. I believe Thai marriages have a greter success than those in the West.
[color=blue][size=134]Care in the community success story.[/size][/color]
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Wanderlust
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Guess, I think that this last point should be aimed at me rather than the original poster, as I was the one to refer to violence by Thai men in their relationships. I have no idea whether Thai marriages have a greater success rate than the West, but they couldn't be worse! I would imagine there is a greater stigma attached to getting divorced here though which would influence any comparison. I have seen more evidence of domestic violence in my 6 years in Thailand than I ever saw in the previous 30 years in the UK, but that means nothing; unfortunately this is a debate that cannot possibly be proven one way or another, as by it's very nature domestic violence tends to remain in the home and unreported(particularly so in Asia), and it may even go on in the happy relationships you are aware of. The role of women in Thai society in many ways is confusing and even contradictory to Western eyes; they are very often the prime earner, and also often in control of the family finances; however they will almost always be subservient to the men in the family, be they husbands, sons, brothers in law or whatever, and this extends to daughters being forced to work to 'look after' the family, even if there are several able bodied brothers that could earn money. It is a concept that is very hard for us Westerners to understand, but I believe that it has come about in part because of the historical large numerical difference of women to men in Thailand (and other parts of Asia). However I am sure there is some other reason for this situation to exist, and hopefully you or some other kind reader can enlighten me.As for your viewpoint on Thai husbands, I am very interested in where you get the evidence. I have seen many cases of one sided abuse by both sexes in an all Thai relationship but it is certainly not the norm. I believe Thai marriages have a greter success than those in the West.
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Guess
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I agree with both statements. As far as the second is concerned I have seen it documented in a diverse selection of literature.lomuamart wrote:Food for thought.
I've always had the impression that Thai society is traditionally matriarchal as far as money goes.
On Wanderlust's statement about the birth rate differential, my understanding is that many countries, especially in Buddhist Asia (but not China), have higher rate of female to male births. However I believe the rate only to be about 2% (i.e. 48% male and 52% female). Of course in a population in excess of 65 Million the number of extra females is something like 3 million people. Other factors that have to be considered are the seemingly high number of homosexual men but little evidence of similar numbers of Homosexual women. This of course hikes the number of free women even higher. This lends credence to the hypothosis that women are sent out to work because there are many (maybe 2 million) of working age that have no other responsibilities. I think that, as stated, the whole concept is very difficult for Westeners to comprehend.
As for your (Wanderlust) observation regarding domestic violence both here and in the West, I have not noticed. The only conclusion is that we grew up, and now live, in completely different environments. Seems a bit strange here as we both live in the same town. With the families I have been close to here in Thailand I have not seen any violence. In the UK it was all too common and almost always narcotic influenced. In my own family it just never happened and I believe if any member of the family was involved in either side of the domestic violence scenario then something would have been done fairly quickly.
[color=blue][size=134]Care in the community success story.[/size][/color]