Mr.Plum v Superjoe

[Arcadian]

There you are chaps, your very own thread, now slug it out on any topic you like.

[E-Dork]

You spelt Mr. Plum with the correct capitalization on letters though you relegate Joe to a measly small letter. Also you have chosen to use Mr. Plum's name first yet Super Joe has, I believe, been a member for a longer period of time. Does this mean that you are in favour of Mr. Plum?

I actually find their arguments good reading as they are both obviously smart people and the way they pick out faults in each others writing's also backing it up with evidence of why 'whatever' can't be true is quite interesting. One minute one of them posts something which you think completely sinks the others ship and then a reply comes which blows a torpedo right back at opponents ship.

The topics in question I have no interest in but merely read sometimes solely to watch the battle ensue.

Plum and Joe.... keep 'em coming.

[BaaBaa.]

they are both obviously smart people.

Have you ever seen Rain Man?

[MrPlum]

Plum and Joe.... keep 'em coming.

I'm surprised.

I can understand your appreciation of 'swordplay' but it's been done to death so much that I can't see how it can have any entertainment value. The attacks are predictable. Either SJ or the wannabes. Their responses are Pavlovian. Conditioned. Hence the references to dogs and puppies. They cannot respond to any of my posts (watch them do it with this one) without some comment on me or my many failings... the list of which would fill a book. (These are known as 'Ad Hominem' attacks). It's become routine. Embarrass them, they cannot stop. Complaining just encourages them. Ignore them and they will make outrageous distortions in order to force you out. They are like babies sucking on a mother's tit. Nourished by my 'anti-semitic' milk.

Mixed in with the conditioned response, are the emotional upheavals which reinforce their addiction. The highs and lows of success or failure fill their empty lives. Every biscuit dropped into their kennel is pounced on immediately. The puppies squeal or wag their tails furiously, even though they know that every 'opportunity' that presents itself, will be easily countered. Despite this they remain ever watchful and hopeful. It's no longer sport, it's become a little pathetic.

And while this goes on, I continue to post my 'heresy', knowing they are assisting me, by ensuring it remains on the front page far longer than it would have done had it been left well alone. Even when I point out the inherent stupidity, they still cannot stop. It's personal because they have made it personal. They made it personal the very first time they resorted to personal insult over argument. They can't argue the merits of the argument. They don't have the knowledge or even any genuine interest. It's always been secondary.

They hold onto their self-serving justification because at a more primal level, they've been challenged and humiliated. Bruised egos seek revenge. The battle to 'win' is now swirling in their psychological soup. Deep down they need to be abused because the only time they are noticed is when being abused. So, they seek out anyone who can give them a good virtual radishing. Some howl in agony and complain bitterly, imagining it will elicit sympathy. Even though they have been asked politely many times to refrain from provocations. Detached observers must look on in amazement. I know I do.

All message boards are like this. Cliques of dysfunctional characters form where they encourage and support each other. The weak unite to feel strong. It seeks a leader, an Alpha Male, who is elevated and who relishes his role. The 'clique' has a hive mind. It thinks alike and responds alike, convinces itself it is clever, picks on other members. Seeks to dominate the dialogue, tries to bring down those who rise to challenge them. They giggle and titter amongst themselves. Hurl abuse. They are valiant 'keyboard warriors'. Board owners tolerate them because they keep the forum active, even though the quality of their input may be poor. Advertisers don't mind since their activity keeps their name or product highlighted.

Arguments on here are nothing new. I've seen them, time and again, ever since online message boards existed. Usually I get bored with it quickly and move on. Since I live here, there's less motivation to move on and I have used these exchanges. On the rare occasion I've allowed myself to be provoked, it has been useful in teaching me how to remain calm in the face of the emotions of others. Anger, hatred, mockery and often out and out stupidity. I've also learned from being forced to research topics.

Having ticked my particular boxes, these attacks no longer serve any useful purpose. They are simply a ritual. Background noise. Defending against them is a mandatory requirement in order to post. Like TSA agents groping passengers, I'm groped by the forum's Quality Control Inspectors, who have decided what I can bring onto the board and what I can't.

Experience has shown me, the ONLY way to stop a 'hive' from mugging other's topics is to threaten to ban them, then to actually do it. It was just as true three years ago, as it is today. They then behave. Certainly, no amount of reason from me matters because, let's face it, this kind of behaviour is beyond reason.

And whether HHAD, or any other forum, the response is always the same...

'But it's you! It's you! It's you! You MADE me do it! You shouldn't have said... [insert weak justification here...]!

There's nothing new under the sun.

[matthew80]

Well said. Regardless of the merits or motivations concerning a topic, I respect eloquent, thoughtful writing. Everyone should keep in mind that we're all just small fish in a small fishbowl here, belching little bubbles in shallow waters.

[Super Joe]

They can't argue the merits of the argument. They don't have the knowledge or even any genuine interest. It's always been secondary.

Ofcourse, as MrP has been increasingly called out for his 'views', his posts have become ever more personal (see this one for example), gone has gone attempt at debate, in has come puppies, poodles & personal insults. This has come about primarily after he lost the mis-use of the edit facility to remove whole tracts of anti-Jewish sentiment. People can judge for themselves, this thread typifies MrP's antics of late ... start a thread lambasting 'financial terrorism' caused by Jewish 'usury', ask a million questions, then simply ignore the inconvenient truths.
You decide: Islamic Banking

They cannot respond to any of my posts (watch them do it with this one) without some comment on me or my many failings... the list of which would fill a book. (These are known as 'Ad Hominem' attacks).

Post about people insulting you... in a post full of insults. Cool trick MrP
.
You set the tone for yourself unfortunately MrP, this is the reason so many posters respond to you the way though do. Your condescending, superior-than-all tone was there from the get-go, with your constant references to HHAD members getting 'back to our football and pints', 'back to our fish & chips' etc, which prompted posters to comment such things as: "Mr.P, I don't buy into your self-appointed quasi-intellectual status"

And here are the sort of statements by you which invited the inevietable responses, you started off bragging to us about how it's all 'fun' to you, and how good you were at it due to your 'Navy conditioning'. But now you relentlessly complain about it as you do not seem unable to cope with it:

- I enjoy debating these topics and invariably argue the case for the contrary opinion. Not because I necessarily believe it. But for the fun of it.
- My delivery may be a bit too rich for your tastes but that is your problem not mine. If you are scared by my posts, get a teddy.
- What is wrong with you? Every time you venture an opinion, you show how little you know
- You have shown repeatedly that you have no idea what you are talking about due to your ignorance.
- Those, with the kind of mindset being displayed here, are, to put it mildly 'screwed'.
- same f**kers cheering as Iraqi children are dismembered are using abortion to pretend they are protective of life. Is that you *hhad member*
- Our happy band of HHAD faithful … they can only swallow the official line like robots, they are incapable of doing anything else.

You've made your bed.....

I continue to post my 'heresy', knowing they are assisting me, by ensuring it remains on the front page far longer than it would have done had it been left well alone.

'you can't stop me, you can't stop me'... is MrP's rallying cry ... 'we're not trying to stop you, we're busily exposing you' ... the pack bark. There's clearly two separate conversations going on here (), and we all know you can't change such extreme bigotry, you simply expose it for what it is. This was rather succinctly summed up by one poster last year, when he wrote ... "PLUM you have placed yourself in the stocks with your racist homophobic posts".


As regular contributors to the Current Affairs section know, this really needs no further explanation. But after 2,000 Jewish-related posts (incl. well over 100 Hitler/Holocaust apologies) in such a short space of time, I personally feel you deserve more for your efforts, my friend. Therefore, I am hereby honoured to present you with my top 10 verdicts on your posting history. A director's 'un-edited' cut, so to speak. These are all made by 10 completely different posters, and we wish to thank you for your invaluable material that was so crucial in making this condemnation possible. In short, your personal downfall would not have been possible without you. In no praticular order:

Poster #1 There is no use trying to discuss anything with such a bigoted, racist, homophobic, extremist view
.
Poster #2 I loath bigots, which you are and that is plain from most of your posts. A man who seems to hate the Jews. the anti semite you really are
.
Poster #3 Mr.P, I will leave you to your bigotry. Hitler could be quite convincing as well. But by now, we all know where you're coming from
.
Poster #4 exactly the same argument used by Hitler to justify their actions...it makes you look like a racist fool. Now we all have your measure
.
Poster #5 Every thread is forced into a one sided trawl of the bowels of the internet to back up your, bigoted and racist opinion
.
Poster #6 Another tapestry of lies. Joos, Nazies, blah blah, anything to get attention ... please respond and give my life some meaning
.
Poster #7 Mr. P, I have made my opposition clear on many threads. Its this kind of misrepresentation of the facts which makes you dangerous
.
Poster #8 Plum, why try and turn this into an anti Jewish thing when the OP is nothing of the sort?
.
Poster #9 born through your obvious hatred of the jews.
.
Poster #10 I'm sure that sentiment would have been a big hit in Nazi Germany...call it what you like, this thread stinks for what it is. My family is Jewish and I take great exception to this ranting in what has now become a bully pulpit for some truly ugly opinions and accusations

That last one is a pretty damning verdict of the person you are MrP, one of the forums more easy going members, asking for you to tone down your 'ugly opinions', and you didn't even have the decency to acknowledge, or respond to him.


From the conversations I gather that, with the aid of mass-editing MrP believed we wouldn't notice
The proof of the plum-pudding, as they say, is in the eating, regurgitating & deep-cleansing

SJ

[richard]

Oh what fun

I feel like a spectator in a gladiatorial arena watching a good joust to the death. Maybe a Jew vs a Roman Mr. P do you have a roman nose by chance??

Play on. The crowds are loving it

[poosmate]

'we're not trying to stop you, we're busily exposing you' ...

Not quite the same as debating
A debate can be interesting if both sides have flexible views and are prepared to change their opinions. A debate can be enjoyable if the subject is controversial or topical. Debating becomes impossible with someone who does not accept anything unless it is a reply he agrees with and complies to his debate rules.Debating is not usually the same subjects constantly being regurgitated.
If anyone should suggest plum may be wrong and that his twisted interpretations, he has spent hours trying to prise from the internet archives may well have been invented only for other gullible crackpots to believe he then starts his predictable put downs.Along with cries of I was not really serious and trying to back peddle if anyone should credibly disprove his subject.
Or his best defence to posters with an opinion he does not agree with or when he does not want to lose face - The now famous ignore feature or as it is should be known The shits - sticking head in the sand.
Plum gave me the shits

[MrPlum]

I feel like a spectator in a gladiatorial arena watching a good joust to the death.

It matters not since I've already run him through with my shiny sword 'Ignorim'. The last few posts he's been flailing at windmills. Don Quixote would be proud.

You may be 'loving it' but I'm bored. The exchanges too predictable. The tactics tediously the same.

1. Guilt by Association. I make a claim. Alex Jones has also made the claim. Alex Jones is viewed negatively, thus the claim is viewed negatively.

2. Hypocrisy. I claim the health system is corrupt. I've used the health system therefore I'm a 'hypocrite'. This may be so but it does not negate the claim. The system can still be corrupt.

3. Cowardice. The attacker does not create topics of his own. It's easier and far more fun to attack others. Like the schoolyard bully, he waits, eyes searching left and right, ears cocked. Suddenly he spots one. His ears prick up, a howl of triumph and he takes off after the rabbit. This places the victim constantly on the defensive. A paid advertiser, one wonders how much protection this affords him, which he surely wouldn't use to seek advantage? Perish the thought. The Alpha male can abuse and humiliate to his heart's content, knowing sanctions will not follow. Thus, unsuspecting female members are mugged with relish.

4. The Search Engine. His favourite tool. He dives in with vigor and gay abandon and bursts to the surface clutching a string of sausages. "Ya See!? Ya See wot 'e said in 1952!' The only problem is 'he' has said something different since, which you do not discover until he calmly points it out.

5. Links. Whenever a source is offered it's smeared immediately. The author is doing it obviously for the money and the whole site can be dismissed because, well, it sells soap. This ignored the fact that every slimy politician, corporate CEO and Israeli shill is also doing it for the money but those links are apparently kosher. (I think he's the latter btw). A classic was the Cancer Society graph thrust into my face with mad triumph. 'Ya see ya lying scrote' is the message. And yet it took 2 minutes to discover the numbers have been manipulated. THIS the best our Witchfinder-General could muster?

6. The Obsessive. He's clearly obsessed. So am I to a certain extent but I'm quite comfortable with it. Mine is an obsession underpinned by love for my fellow man. While his appears to be underpinned by hatred of it. This time though the obsession is pushed to the limit. A final desperate, relentless drive to 'get him' at any cost. Face streaming with blood, flanks foaming with lather, he won't stop until his furry legs crumple with exhaustion. And then he stops. Blinking furiously he can barely believe it. The battered and humiliated pack rush to lick his wounds... K1 works furiously on his 'crown jewels'. He has triumphed! The howl echoes across the hillsides..... until.... reality re-enters and it crashes against the walls of his favourite bar, the 'Dog and Sausage'. The prey has slipped his clutches yet again. He will continue to post, without hindrance, this time. Because the Alpha Male will be ignored. He's had more than his 15 minutes of fame and no longer matters. How cruel are life's vicissitudes.

Not to worry. Fresh meat will be along to fill that gaping hole in his life. I guarantee he will provoke it.

7. Credibility. Why would anyone with such a good mind, undermine their own credibility by showing a lack of sympathy for others, admit to being 'immature', refuse to make any concession, offend others for sport and obviously relish being antagonistic. Why would anyone expend so much energy on one member, to the detriment of so many topics? Isn't this a tad selfish? In his efforts to bring me down, he has certainly inflicted a few wounds but at the cost of 'exposing' his own shortcomings. This runs both ways. I have too.

Is there a 'winner'?

I don't think so.

8. The Final Act. All of this is bruising if you allow it. Words can be painful. Honour demands revenge. You can drive a knife into someone and withdraw it but it still leaves a scar. Some will never get over it and will nurse their grievances. Their fragile psychological flaws are right now raw and exposed. Their breathless little hearts all a flutter. It will take time before they are healed. But then it will only be a superficial healing because the next time they engage, thinking they are over it, they will discover they respond in the same way. This lack of awareness of their own nature spills over into a lack of awareness of life in general. They eat, they fart, they go through life in a semi-comatoze daze, destined to repeat the mistakes of the past. Dare to point this out and they rise up in indignation.

I could be anyone. It doesn't matter. The pack, like all packs, want a victim. Any victim. That's why it isn't really personal at all.

The real crime was to not follow the script. I was supposed to roll over and beg them to tickle my tummy.

(Yeah? Well 'f**k yew. I'm gonner get ya fer that!)

[poosmate]

plum:

Mine is an obsession underpinned by love for my fellow man

Except Jews of course and homosexuals and not forgetting ........................ Fill in the blank spaces -use another sheet if as I suspect there is not enough room

Love me love my dog...........

[MrPlum]

Boy oh boy. Look at those tails go.

[dozer]

I would say at this point Plum has his nose ahead, just

[Super Joe]

Mine is an obsession underpinned by love for my fellow man

You're not being quite straight with us, are you.....

I used to have sympathy with the Jewish people due to the 'holocaust'....I have since become resentful

Ya See wot 'e said in 1952!' The only problem is 'he' has said something different since, which you do not discover until he calmly points it out.

You're not being quite straight with us, are you.....

Israhell is a nation of cut-throats and thieves, filled with murderous East Russian Communist Jews. An army of Jewish 'opinion-formers' attack our religion, sexualize our young girls, promote homosexuality. The reality of Jewish racist-supremacist ideology. I think the Israeli issue is just a symptom of a wider Jewish question. What is it about this race of people that poverty, social discord, violence and crime seem to follow everything they do? At one time or another Jews have been kicked out of every country in Europe. They seem to hate everyone.

Credibility. Why would anyone with such a good mind, undermine their own credibility

Well we've seen posters' judgements on your credibility in the 10 quotes in my previous post. And it's hardly suprising with some of the stunts you pull, just last week your antics included:
a) adding your own words to a quote that you swore blind was, 'word for word' from a medical authority.
b) editing a post (that old chestnut) and claiming what you edited out was "fairly innocuous" only for the poster to reveal it was actually that you suggested they... "would like to shoot young children to help the Jewish cause"
As I said, you've caused your own downfall, it's nothing to do with anyone else. 

Thus, unsuspecting female members are mugged with relish.

Yes, you made this bizarre claim before. I suggested that it was another one of your 'made up' tales, created for effect, and asked you to provide some evidence. You failed too answer ofcourse, because none exists. And when you fail to provide substantiation this time, others can see your claims for what they are

SJ

[Super Joe]

A classic was the Cancer Society graph thrust into my face with mad triumph. 'Ya see ya lying scrote' is the message. And yet it took 2 minutes to discover the numbers have been manipulated. THIS the best our Witchfinder-General could muster?

Ofcourse the reality does not resemble this at all, a perfect example of the rubbish MrP would have his fellow posters believe. If he can pull the wool over your eyes he will. The truth is inconvenient to him.


What actually happened:
'Ya see ya lying scrote' is the message - What I really said was totally reasonable ... "Likewise, you still haven't been able to offer anything to the debate, (other than extremist 'misinformation'), to refute the data that shows how medical advances have made an impact and decreased the death rates" 

And yet it took 2 minutes - It was actually 3 days after I initially posted the graph, before he replied.

to discover the numbers have been manipulated - Nonsense, I posted a 10 year survival-rate graph from the UK, MrP posted an article criticising American Cancer Society's 5 year survival data.

THIS the best our Witchfinder-General could muster? - Rubbish, there was 4no. graphs and stacks of other data. Including details about how the research company in the OP had played a role in the medical advances that have led to 26,000 UK childhood cancer survivors, MrPlum ignored that point, and just lambasted them as 'pimping for funds'.


This is exactly the reason why his old posts need quoting again, to show up all the distortions, half-truths and dis-info.

SJ

[charlesh]

An interesting recent TV program entitled " A walk in the park" showed the slow annexation of East Jerusalem by Zionists through stealth. They seem to have sought via the reverse diaspora a lot of Yankie/Pommy/Oz "settlers" who are rather skilled spin doctors and explained that the bulldozing of Palestinian homes is good for tourism as they have been built illegally on "sacred sites" and that these sites need to be fully explored for the good of the nation, history and tourism!
They then turn the areas into walk paths strangely around the perimeter of their newly expanded zones and are reminiscent of "green zones"/buffer/DMZ's between them and the ever diminishing Palestinian territories.
The building of settler blocks without permits and the failure to execute demolition orders was also cited while a Palestinian house that had existed in the area for generations was being bulldozed!