Working in Thailand for a UK company

[Pleng]

Hi There

I currently work for a small company in the UK who are involved in software development and technical support. All work is done from the office either on our local machines or logging in to and operating clients' machines (all also based in UK) remotely.

It has for a long time been my intention to move to Thailand and had presumed that I would end up teaching English; a job I previously did here in England for around 7 years (on and off). However my current employer has stated that they would be happy for me to continue working for them, in my current position, while living in Thailand - I can do everything I currently do from anywhere providing I have a broadband connection and a VOiP phone, and it enables them to extend the hours that they provide technical support to their clients.

This puts me in a bit of a strange situation when it comes to visas and work permits. I know that to partake in ANY work whilst staying in Thailand, even voluntarily, a work permit is required. However there is no entity in Thailand to actually apply for the permit.

Another option would be for my girlfriend set up a Thai company, for which I could presumably work (permit pending), and the Thai company could then bill my current employer for my services; but there are all kinds of reasons I would prefer to be earning a UK wage as opposed to earning my money for a Thai company.

Does anybody have any advice on what the options available to me are?

[Big Boy]

I can't help you with your question, but welcome to the Forum anyway.

I'm sure there'll be plenty of advice coming your way in the morning.

[pharvey]

Welcome Pleng - unfortunately I can't help out on this one either, but would certainly be interested in any solutions to the problem!! I'm in a similar position in that I can work from various locations and am certainly looking at HH as a base. Would be a welcome change to Chongqing!!

[MwD]

There are management companies out there, that tend to be based off-shore, who use local Thai employment agencies to sponsor you, provide work permit and salary administration.

They charge a monthly fee. Sometimes a fixed fee, or a % of your income. They also charge for obtaining a work permit, which can be quite expensive, 2000US...

I'm not sure how legal this is, since, technically speaking you're not actually working for a company here, all seems like smoke and mirrors to me.

I looked into setting up a company here to work remotely, but it seemed a lot of hassle, and again I questioned how legal it was...

My best advice would be to seek local employment here with an international company, although the work will be in Bangkok, since there is very little in Hua Hin.

PM me if you want further information.

[lomuamart]

Technically, you need a work permit. Simple as that unfortunately.

[Takiap]

I think, even if you spoke to the relative authorities over here, you'd get a dozen different answers. When I once discussed this sort of situation with an immigration official, he said it is okay because you're not actually working in the country. In other words, you're not working for a company in Thailand, and neither does that company have any offices in Thailand.

In fact, when they set up citywide WiFi, the mayor actually quoted your sort of situation as one of the reasons for doing so. Personally, I would advise you to contact a decent law firm in Bangkok for clarification.

[dtaai-maai]

I think, even if you spoke to the relative authorities over here, you'd get a dozen different answers.
Personally, I would advise you to contact a decent law firm in Bangkok for clarification.

I agree.
I'm sure there must be plenty of others in your position. Be patient, and have a good look around on the Net.

[johnnyk]

I met a guy who does translation for VW-Porsche-Audi, technical manuals, service bulletins etc the kind of things needing constant updates.
He works online in his apartment while they sleep in Stuttgart and the work is on the hard drive when they arrive in the morning. They pay him in euros to an offshore account which he accesses with his bank card. One day's work pays his monthly rent of 15K baht.
He works online up on the 10th floor and nobody knows he is doing it.

[chelsea]

I met a guy who does translation for VW-Porsche-Audi, technical manuals, service bulletins etc the kind of things needing constant updates.
He works online in his apartment while they sleep in Stuttgart and the work is on the hard drive when they arrive in the morning. They pay him in euros to an offshore account which he accesses with his bank card. One day's work pays his monthly rent of 15K baht.
He works online up on the 10th floor and nobody knows he is doing it.

Johnnyk, If I chose to spend anytime in Thailand, I would be in the same situation as the guy you met and do a similar line of work to what he does.

I asked a similar question a few years ago and the main line of advice was to do the work here while you live, get paid in your overseas bank and access money via the ATM system. But just keep your visa and a normal entry/exit visa.

The other main thing that came up as advice, was not to discuss openly what you are doing. Reason for this was given that if someone has a gripe with you at anytime (pointing more to the Expat side than Thai), all they do is go straight the police/immigration and tell them what they know. Next thing is you get a bang on the door and if they can prove the allegation then off you go home (after a visit to a Thai jail/detention center) with a black mark on your passport.

In answer to the OP, I would advise you to come for say 3 months, make sure that the Internet systems they have there are up to the standard you need to operate with and just see how well you can operate. If all goes well and you don't get any hassle then make a decision.
My other advise (and this is based on what I have seen with customs here in Australia & Uk), and that would be to carry no documentation relating to your work in any of your cases or on USB sticks or exterior hard drives.
People coming to Aus/UK get regularly questioned on why if they are on holiday visa's are they carrying copies of CV's, job references etc if they have no visa's to work legally. Most people that happens to are normally denied entry on the basis that they are a risk of not complying to the entry visa they have been issued with.
Store all your documentation etc remotely so that you do not have any hassles when you enter and leave Thailand.

[Pleng]

Hi everybody thanks for all the replies.

It seems that the situation is about as irritatingly complex as I expected. Can anybody recommend the names of any good legal firms who I could consult about this; either in bkk or Hua Hin?

I don't really like the idea of just doing it on a tourist VISA and keeping quiet about it. I wouldn't mind so much if it something a bit more casual like web design; the flexibility then makes it a bit easier to keep mum about it. This will be a job, with regular working hours, so it feels a bit more awkward trying to hide it. Plus I'm not exactly a mysterious chap, don;t think I could do all the "were you going?" "oh nowhere" stuff :p

The other option I briefly touched upon, and was hoping to avoid if at all possible, would be to work under some umbrella company. For example my girlfriend could set up an IT consultancy company and employ me to work for her. But are there any restrictions here? I remember from research I did a while back that a farrang 'owned' business needed to employ a certain ratio of Thais to every farrang employee. I think the number was something like 6:1. Does this still hold true for a wholly Thai owned company, or would I be able to be the sole employee of my girlfriend's company? On the amount of money my employer is paying me, I don't think I could afford to employ 6 Thais, and what on EARTH would I do with them all??? :d

[Randy Cornhole]

As stated how would anyone know? By mentioning it you may be inviting problems. I get a feeling the Thai authorities would seek to find a problem just to get money out of you and generally be awkward.

I know people in Hua Hin that used to earn money selling on eBay. Are they not technically working?

I used to spend hours every day on my computer who's to say i wasn't working? As it happens I wasn't but could have been? How would they know?

Just a thought.

[johnnymac]

I'm in the same situation, Pleng, except that run my own company. My current client is going to retain my services when I come to Thailand in the summer and I will work remotely for them. As you quite rightly point out it's a bit of a grey area!

I've spent a long time looking into this and I think there are 2 choices:

1)Declare yourself ex patriate in the UK and pay your tax in Thailand. I don't think you need to use a service company - you can just declare your earnings and pay the tax. You do it in arears (similar to US system rather than PAYE as in the UK). Of course, you'll need a work permit for this.

2) Pay tax in the UK. Technically, because the company you work for isn't domiciled in Thailand, you don't need to declare it as work done in Thailand.

Because of the double taxation treaty, you only need to pay tax in either country not both

There is a third option of using an offshore (umbrella) company as an ex-patriate if your company will go for it but I think it's fraught with difficulties.

There's a bit info on fora in Bangkok if you google it.

Good luck!

[zevon]

I've spent a long time looking into this and I think there are 2 choices:

1)Declare yourself ex patriate in the UK and pay your tax in Thailand. I don't think you need to use a service company - you can just declare your earnings and pay the tax. You do it in arears (similar to US system rather than PAYE as in the UK). Of course, you'll need a work permit for this.

2) Pay tax in the UK. Technically, because the company you work for isn't domiciled in Thailand, you don't need to declare it as work done in Thailand.

Because of the double taxation treaty, you only need to pay tax in either country not both

There is a third option of using an offshore (umbrella) company as an ex-patriate if your company will go for it but I think it's fraught with difficulties.



Good luck!

Not so sure that I agree with your findings.
My understanding is this.
Work permits are required by all foreigners working in Thailand whether there is remuneration or not.
Applicants for work permits need to be sponsored by a Thai based company and in the main a majority Thai owned company.
There are restrictions on companies seeking work permits for potential foreign staff which can include registered capital, staffing numbers, salary etc.
Certain occupations are completely off limits to foreign nationals.
Work permits are company/location specific.
In other words an individual can not simply roll up to the Ministry of Labor and request a work permit.
The Thai authorities seek to protect the local labour market. Non-Thais should show that they bring special skills to the table and are not taking a position which could as easily be filled by a local.

This being Thailand the emphasis placed on any regulation by the authorities can vary over time and location.

Many non-Thais are working in the country without the appropriate paperwork. There is an obvious risk to doing this. I am personally aware of individuals spending time in the IDC before deportation for failing to have the necessary paperwork. It does happen

My experience has been over the years I have worked here in different positions that the authorities have come to my place of work on at least three occasions to ensure that I was in possession of the necessary paperwork or at least the company was

[johnnyk]

To get a WP for falang the company must employ 4 Thais, 2WPs=8 Thais etc.
Of course a company can be set up employing and paying Thais not to come to work but its a pain what with taxes, social security contributions, paperwork etc. Is it worth all that bother? Work, when it comes to falang, seems to be whatever the authorities say it is even cutting your own grass.

[zevon]

To get a WP for falang the company must employ 4 Thais, 2WPs=8 Thais etc.
Of course a company can be set up employing and paying Thais not to come to work but its a pain what with taxes, social security contributions, paperwork etc. Is it worth all that bother? Work, when it comes to falang, seems to be whatever the authorities say it is even cutting your own grass.

Certainly in recent times if not currently it was/is possible to set up a consultancy company which did not require 4 Thais per work permit and I also do not believe this regulation applies to BOI companies.
I am aware of companies employing "ghost" workers but I have also heard that in certain locations authorities have visited offices to see actual workers. They want to encourage Thai employment.

Ask 10 expats for their understanding of the labour laws and you will receive 15 different replies. Ask 10 labour department employees and you likely receive 20 versions.

Personally bottom line I am of the opinion that each situation can be different (circumstances, location, officer involved etc) and that if someone is seeking to reside long term in Thailand and possibly invest a considerable amount of money here it is worth seeking specialist help.
Ensure that the firm or lawyer has significant experience of dealing with foreigners/labour laws.