Exchange rates on foreign Condo purchase

[PeteC]

Post moved to Sports. Pete

[Mrock]

Semi west coast. Calgary to be exact.
I'm watching the Boston T Bay game right now.
You can buy a package on the nhl website and then connect it to your TV.
Golf and Hockey...what else is there? Lol! Oh ya, sitting by my pool drinking really cold beer!!
Ed

[Super Joe]

To my knowledge, common law marriage is not recognized here, but I could be wrong.

an interesting idea that we will mull over... thanks much for advice, it is appreciated!

That's correct that Thai Law (Civil & Commercial Codes) does not recognize common law marriages:
Section 1457 (Civil and Commercial Code): Marriage under this Code shall be effected only on registration being made.
Section 1458 (Civil and Commercial Code): A marriage can take place only if the man and woman agree to take each other as husband and wife, and such agreement must be declared publicly before the Registrar in order to have it recorded by the Registrar.

But the Land Codes/Land office seem to apply different criteria as the following extracts show, and a lot depends on the interpretation made by the official on the day. The 'test' they seem to apply is the Thai's surname, if she's taken the foreigners then it's married, if still her maiden name on ID card then that's usually good enough for not married. Extracts from land codes, but not specifically related to condo purchase...
"during marriage or cohabitation as husband and wife with an alien"
"Thai woman with a common-law foreign husband"
"where a Thai national has an alien spouse, whether legitimate or illegitimate"


Where it's 'adjudged' that the partner is a 'spouse' then this extract from the Land Code (re-worded from original for clarity) seems to suggest the Thai spouse can not have a joint claim over condo, it has to be seen as the foreigner 'only'. I've read elsewhere on lawyers articles that a Thai spouse can have her name on the title, so maybe this would just be a declaration form applying to divorce claims!?
4.2 Where a Thai national has an alien spouse, whether legitimate or illegitimate, and expends money to form joint community property, whether made in the Thai name alone or jointly with alien, consideration is made of the alien, and he must comply with section 19 (1, 2, or 5) of condominium act. The Thai spouse can then purchase within the entitlement of her alien spouse, but it shall be deemed as wholly owned by the alien, because condominium ownership is indivisible.

The receipt for our small reserve deposit was done incorrectly... thinking again now of spending the money to use a local lawyer. We do have contact info now for their bank, so will ask them a few questions. Having the condo registered correctly, as freehold foreign ownership, is of the utmost importance

Jimmy, this lawyer is saying that a Thai national's 50% of the condo purchase, is not subject to the requirement that it be ‘foreign currency’, it can just be local Thai Baht. So seems to suggest you do not need the full transactions covered to meet your requirements, but I would not go down that route just in case some other snag crops up.
Thai lawyers article:
If a foreign buyer purchases a condominium in co-ownership with a Thai person, such as a Thai spouse, and if the condominium unit title deed is to be transferred and registered to both co-owners names, then the foreign buyer will only need to remit half of the purchase price of the condominium in foreign currency. The other half of the condominium price may be paid in Thai baht, because it is the Thai buyer’s contribution to the purchase of the Thai share of co-ownership.


The FET forms (as you correctly called them Jimmy) are only issued by banks for amounts of US$50,000 and up now, the BoT changed it from the old $20k, which is great news for those wanting to transfer funds out of Thailand. Any transfers below $50k and the bank will issue some kind of 'certificate/document' that is accepted by the Land Office. Here's confirmation of the FET change: http://www.bot.or.th/Thai/ForeignExchan ... anForm.doc


What is interesting that I just read about these FET forms that we have to beg for in order to get our condo's, is that they are BoT generated forms given to all the commercial banks so they can report all foreign exchange transactions, in or out, over $50k. The banks should be generating them as a matter of course to meet their central banks' requirements!!


SJ

[kalbow]

wrt developers, i think that if it is a large, established. listed developer such as Sansiri (who must have built hundreds of condos by now), then a lot less checks and caution are neccesary than if buying from a small developer (regardless of nationality) whose background is unclear.

Hi All, my first post ( ) - just my two-penneth-worth. I actually bought a condo (already completed) from Sansiri and was very nervous about it all. Went to see a Thai lawer re: checks on land etc, he gave the Sansiri folk a call and then told me not to worry about it as they will organise everything - which they did very well - I had no problems at all - other than them wanting me to pay some bank fee on a cheque or transfer (I can't recall) which I eventually talked them into paying.

kalbow

[Jimmy Canuck]

[quote="Super Joe"][quote="hhfarang"][quote="Jimmy Canuck"]To my knowledge, common law marriage is not recognized here, but I could be wrong.
Where it's 'adjudged' that the partner is a 'spouse' then this extract from the Land Code (re-worded from original for clarity) seems to suggest the Thai spouse can not have a joint claim over condo, it has to be seen as the foreigner 'only'. I've read elsewhere on lawyers articles that a Thai spouse can have her name on the title, so maybe this would just be a declaration form applying to divorce claims!?

The FET forms (as you correctly called them Jimmy) are only issued by banks for amounts of US$50,000 and up now, the BoT changed it from the old $20k, which is great news for those wanting to transfer funds out of Thailand. Any transfers below $50k and the bank will issue some kind of 'certificate/document' that is accepted by the Land Office. Here's confirmation of the FET change: http://www.bot.or.th/Thai/ForeignExchan ... anForm.doc


What is interesting that I just read about these FET forms that we have to beg for in order to get our condo's, is that they are BoT generated forms given to all the commercial banks so they can report all foreign exchange transactions, in or out, over $50k. The banks should be generating them as a matter of course to meet their central banks' requirements!!


SJ
Thanks very much SJ. Re names on title, we are down as co-owners, both with Canadian passports, copies of which form part of the Purchase Agreement, and not as spouses, so that should be fine. She does not yet have Thai ID, but applied for it a few months ago. She has been Canadian citizen for aprox 30 yrs.
Re $ transfers... there was the small issue of a 5K Baht reserve deposit paid by credit card, which is a foreign-fund card, but after my persistent questioning the developers actually contacted the Cha am land title office, who said all funds must go through a thai bank as foreign deposited funds... and now the developer (who seems to be learning along with us - that scares me a little!) agrees with my original suggestion that we just add that 5K to the first of the 2 pmts, after which they will just credit the 5K back... I thought that was the way to go from the beginning, as it would take care of the problem.
Also we will transfer 100% as foreign funds.
The first of our 2 pmts is only around 6K $US, which was the part i was nervous about, but all the info i've gathered up seems to support/say the same thing - that the (developer's) bank will issue some form of paperwork which will be acceptable at the Land Office. 2nd pmt is for the full balance, on full completion of construction + transfer of Title, so will definitely qualify for Tor Tor 3, or FET form.
Thanks again! Jimmy

[Jimmy Canuck]

wrt developers, i think that if it is a large, established. listed developer such as Sansiri (who must have built hundreds of condos by now), then a lot less checks and caution are neccesary than if buying from a small developer (regardless of nationality) whose background is unclear.

Hi All, my first post ( ) - just my two-penneth-worth. I actually bought a condo (already completed) from Sansiri and was very nervous about it all. Went to see a Thai lawer re: checks on land etc, he gave the Sansiri folk a call and then told me not to worry about it as they will organise everything - which they did very well - I had no problems at all - other than them wanting me to pay some bank fee on a cheque or transfer (I can't recall) which I eventually talked them into paying.

kalbow

Thanks Kalbow! That is very very encouraging to read.. This development (Samudra Residences) is also a big one, 4 condo buildings almost completed, several more coming as well as pool-villas and a 5* hotel. Can you please just follow-up, and confirm that you bought Foreign Ownership Freehold? And also, give a little info on how the foreign fund transfers went?? Did you make any payments under the $US 20K (told it's 50K now..) limit that qualify for FET Forms? Did you pay directly to the developer's bank? If so, were the exchange rates fair? We are somewhat nervous also! Which is only natural, as many aspects diff than back home in Canada. I have however, done a WHOLE lot of research for 2 months straight, and feel I'm getting a pretty good understanding now.......... but if you, as a thai-condo-buying veteran, could answer the above questions it would really help to support my current understanding. Wanted to send you a PM (personal msg) to make sure you read this, but I think you maybe cannot receive that until you have 10 posts. Thanks again for your very helpful post! Jimmy

[Jimmy Canuck]

Hi all, boy-oh-boy, got my first chile! question - I sent a PM to a newbie that has only 3 posts I believe... would he get that? Much thanks to all who posted here, will keep checking back. Jimmy Canuck

[Jimmy Canuck]

Hi All, my first post ( ) - just my two-penneth-worth. I actually bought a condo (already completed) from Sansiri and was very nervous about it all. Went to see a Thai lawer re: checks on land etc, he gave the Sansiri folk a call and then told me not to worry about it as they will organise everything - which they did very well - I had no problems at all - other than them wanting me to pay some bank fee on a cheque or transfer (I can't recall) which I eventually talked them into paying.

kalbow[/quote]
Oh forgot...... did the developer register your interest (Title) for you independent of the Thai lawyer?? What doc did you receive? Jimmy Canuck

[kalbow]

Hi Jimmy

Apologies for any late reply. I'll try and answer your questions as best I can. The memory fading a bit now as it was a couple of years ago and it seems like a faded memory. Also, I'm not actually in LOS at the moment (although looking forward to re-retirement in a month or two).

1. Yes, bought Foreign Ownership Freehold.

2. I transferred the whole amount (in excess of $50K US) via Telex Transfer from my ANZ bank in Sydney to Kasikorn, Hua Hin, I then made various staged payments to the developer. Actually the property was already completed so it was a holding deposit, a further deposit and then final payment just prior to move in. If the developers bank is in Bkk, for example, and yours in HH and you draw a bank cheque or even transfer then there's a further transfer/deposit charge that you have to cover (around 3000 Baht in my case). So find out where they bank and see if you incur this cost. There was a some form I had to fill out - probably FET.

3. The exchange rate via banks is never fair in my opinion, that's why I tend to bring in bundles of cash (I know - a bit dodgy) but I get a good rate from a 'hole-in-the-wall' guy here in Singapore. Anything really large I use a Forex site (whose name includes dot XE dot com) which gives a slightly better rate than the banks I think. (Canadian co. btw I think).

4. Yes, the developers were very helpful and looked after all the paperwork and kept me informed of the progress. I ended up with a Title Deed which my wife translated for me and assures me my name is on the deed. Also the Blue Book thingy that tells me (and officialdom) I live where I live. Maybe a couple of other docs as well but I can't be sure. Will check when I'm back next. This was independent of a Thai lawyer - maybe I was lucky/foolish but I did check with one initially.

Sorry if I'm a bit vague on some points - there are probably others on the forum much better informed than I - but I'm happy to help in any way.

Let me know your progress.

Cheers
Kalbow

[kalbow]

Jimmy

I forgot to mention that my holding deposit was also paid by a foreign banked Visa - but through a bit of trickery was credited back somehow. Pretty much what your developer (or you) is suggesting.

Cheers
Kalbow

[Jimmy Canuck]

Jimmy

I forgot to mention that my holding deposit was also paid by a foreign banked Visa - but through a bit of trickery was credited back somehow. Pretty much what your developer (or you) is suggesting.

Cheers
Kalbow

Thanks very much Kalbow, for taking the time to pass on all that, it's very helpful. Are you sure your name is really on that Title?!! Kidding!
We wondering if you are getting any rental income when you're not using the place? Rental pool, or otherwise... If you, or anyone else has any info or experiences to share re having someone in HH help you out managing rentals while you are out of the LOS? Hear stories about people managing rentals cheating a bit here + there... to increase their own income a bit.
Ps: what did you get for 50K? can't buy much for that these days!
Jimmy

[kalbow]

Hi Jimmy

Nah, I don't rent the place out but that might be a future plan. The condo has Plus Property Management that will handle rentals if I wanted. This company is quite large and well known - google them, I use them to clean the place, water the plants and generally keep and eye on the place. They automatically turn my water off when I'm not there in case of pipe breaks/leaks etc.

Other than that I've not much info on how they perform in renting out.

Cheers
Kalbow

P.s. In excess of US $50K - I meant I transferred more than the minimum you had quoted in your previous email. Yes, I wouldn't get the sala for that price

[Super Joe]

thank you so much for all that.. very comprehensive, and yes I have spent many hours researching on the 'net, think I knew virtually all of that - with exception of part about maybe getting a Tor Tor 3 (called FET or FETS now by the way?) issued for amounts less than 20K $US.
I have read that you can get some other certificate or paper from the banks for under 20K which will be acceptable to the Land Office, but that the orig cert may be attainable now for lower amounts is news to me...

I popped in Bangkok Bank yesterday and showed 'foreign exchange' lady a credit in my book from UK and asked her for the FET form (only to see what she'd say about this alternative form, the credit wasn't even half the required minimum for a FET), she said 'no' you don't get the FET form but I'll give you something else, in not so many words.

She went off backstage with just bank book and passport (no proof of address), came back five minutes later with not just the one I asked for, but another that was months earlier in the book for quite a small amount. So it seems easy and something someone in the banks 'should' be aware of. This is the 'punky' lady with the sharp red hairdo in Bangkok Bank, sits on the right near the staff door (a lot of farangs know her), she's been there years and knows her stuff. So may be not as easy if your bank has a.n.other clerk who's not so aware.

The form was a lot bigger than the image below obviously, but just had the exchange rates, date & time exchange occured and the like. My address wasn't on it, but my name & account no., then the name and home address of the sender (18 Gladstone blah blah), so that would be your address which is what you want.

SJ

[Jimmy Canuck]

To Super Joe - Re: Credit Advice/Receipt form... Thanks! Very helpful, very much appreciated. I owe you one amigo, that was very thoughtful of you to take the time to do that! Jimmy:)