History Challenge & Journal

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PeteC
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Re: History Challenge

Post by PeteC »

I could look this up but it's better to ask to see comments.

Who was the first UK Prime Minister, and when did the system change from absolute monarchy to what I guess is called a constitutional monarchy, same as Thailand I assume?

Is there a difference between the Thai setup and the UK setup, other than the ability to function relatively well? :shock: :mrgreen: Pete :cheers:
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Re: History Challenge

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dtaai-maai wrote:
is it a false flag.svg.png
wossat?

British India ensign used from 1880–1947 ordinary red ensign with Star of India
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Re: History Challenge

Post by moja »

Siani wrote:
Siani wrote:
sandman67 wrote:guess at the coin

King Eadwulf of Northumbria circa 705AD

:shock:
Nope you are close..but a little too early :) You are in the correct country 8)
At this time he was ruler East Anglia and Kent, making him ruler of most of England...who was it? What was the name of the coin?
King Ethelred?
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Re: History Challenge

Post by dtaai-maai »

Nereus wrote:The Abbey of San Galgano in Tuscany.
Very good, Nereus - give us the story behind the sword, please.



Moja, correct on the flag!
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Re: History Challenge

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dtaai-maai wrote:
Nereus wrote:The Abbey of San Galgano in Tuscany.
Very good, Nereus - give us the story behind the sword, please. Moja, correct on the flag!
My daughter walked by awhile ago and said 'the sword in the stone'! :D Do I dare tell her it's in Italy? :o Pete :cheers:
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Re: History Challenge

Post by dtaai-maai »

^^To be honest, I'd never heard of it before today, but it's an interesting story. Google galgano sword.
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Re: History Challenge

Post by Nereus »

dtaai-maai wrote:
Nereus wrote:The Abbey of San Galgano in Tuscany.
Very good, Nereus - give us the story behind the sword, please.

Moja, correct on the flag!
I guess the first thing is to point out it is not Excalibur, the mythical sword of King Arthur.

There appears to be some dispute over the one at, or next to, the Abbey. As I do not know I can only copy what I have found:

"The sword in the stone, in the chapel next to the Gothic Abbey of Saint Galgano at Montesiepi. Archaeological digging may soon unveil its origins, Italian research announced. Known as the "sword in the stone," the Tuscan "Excalibur" is said to have been plunged into a rock in 1180 by Galgano Guidotti, a medieval knight who renounced war and worldly goods to become a hermit. Built in Galgano's memory, the evocative Gothic abbey at Montesiepi, near the city of Siena, still preserves the sword in a little chapel. Only the hilt and a few centimeters of the blade protrude from the rock in the shape of a Cross. "The sword has been considered a fake for many years, but our metal dating research in 2001 has indicated it has medieval origins. The composition of the metal doesn't show the use of modern alloys, and the style is compatible with that one of a 12th century sword," Luigi Garlaschelli, a research scientist at University of Pavia, told Discovery News." :cheers:
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Re: History Challenge

Post by sandman67 »

Re the coin

King Coenwulf of Mercia - 796 to 821AD, and as the coin is gold it is a Mancus, and its inscription shows it was minted in London
A recent development in the coinage of Coenwulf came with the discovery in 2001 of a gold coin bearing the name Coenwulf at Biggleswade in Bedfordshire, England, on a footpath beside the River Ivel.[59][60] The 4.33 g (0.15 oz) mancus, worth about 30 silver pennies, is only the eighth known Anglo-Saxon gold coin dating to the mid-to-late Anglo-Saxon period.[59][60] The coin's inscription, "DE VICO LVNDONIAE", indicates that it was minted in London.[60]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenwulf_of_Mercia

the problem with trying to interpret the latin on coinage is that, specially with Roman style coins, it can be abbreviated forms of words (like SPQR = Senatus Populus Que Romanus), and that small "o" also sometimes denotes a break inbetween two words....which is why I had problems with it. Now I know the [ is a C and the o an O it all becomes a lot clearer, and doing a search on the text would give you the above page.

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Re: History Challenge

Post by Siani »

moja wroteKing Ethelred?

Sorry not correct Moja :| . King Ethelred was Wessex. I am looking to the East Anglia and Kent region for the King.
AD 796-821 for the coin ....
Dimensions: diameter: 2cm :shock:
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Re: History Challenge

Post by Siani »

sandman67 wrote:Re the coin

King Coenwulf of Mercia - 796 to 821AD, and as the coin is gold it is a Mancus, and its inscription shows it was minted in London
A recent development in the coinage of Coenwulf came with the discovery in 2001 of a gold coin bearing the name Coenwulf at Biggleswade in Bedfordshire, England, on a footpath beside the River Ivel.[59][60] The 4.33 g (0.15 oz) mancus, worth about 30 silver pennies, is only the eighth known Anglo-Saxon gold coin dating to the mid-to-late Anglo-Saxon period.[59][60] The coin's inscription, "DE VICO LVNDONIAE", indicates that it was minted in London.[60]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenwulf_of_Mercia

the problem with trying to interpret the latin on coinage is that, specially with Roman style coins, it can be abbreviated forms of words (like SPQR = Senatus Populus Que Romanus), and that small "o" also sometimes denotes a break inbetween two words....which is why I had problems with it. Now I know the [ is a C and the o an O it all becomes a lot clearer, and doing a search on the text would give you the above page.

:cheers:
Well done! :) Correct :cheers:
The coin is in the British Museum. Very rare :shock:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/hi ... nwulf.aspx
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Re: History Challenge

Post by sandman67 »

Who was the first UK Prime Minister, and when did the system change from absolute monarchy to what I guess is called a constitutional monarchy, same as Thailand I assume?
1) The title of Prime Minister has been used to designate a cabinet and court position at various points in UK history. The fist one in its modern sense was Robert Walpole who is also its longest serving PM. He was a big fat sod in a wig, representing the Whig party that later in history became the Liberals. The Liberal Party likes to brag they had the first proper PM.

2) The constitutional monarchy is also one that is arguably rooted in history - for example it can be argued that the Magna Carta and Accords of Oxford instituted in 1215 on Bad King John made the monarchy constitutional as it imposed the first limited monarchy and rule by common consent. Similarly it can be argued that the Restoration of Charles II made the monarchy constitutional and by common consent. However, the modern constitutional monarchy started with the overthrow of James II in 1688 and the Bill Of Rights 1689....so making William III (aka William of Orange) and Mary II the first modern constitutional monarchs. Id argue that it started with Magna Carta in 1215....others wouldnt. Bikers in the UK are big on the Magna Carta and I was a member of Charter 88 which tried to get a written constitution for the UK based on the BoR1689. The UK is pretty unique in that it doesnt have a written constitution...it has what is termed "Constitution by Statute and Law"....our legal system is our constitution.

Im a big fan of David Starkey and have his history series on my HD

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Re: History Challenge

Post by dtaai-maai »

A quickie for fun.

JC was 43 when R sailed o’er the sea.
She liked my style and stayed a while,
Digging deep inside of me.
She couldn’t take me all, and so she built a wall
To stop the Boys in Blue from coming down to spoil it all.


Please explain.
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Re: History Challenge

Post by sandman67 »

Sorry prcscct I didnt separate the last bit well

The difference between Thailand and the UK is that Thailand has a written constitution (which it seems to have changed about 37 times since it went to a constitutional monarchy in the early 20thC). The UK has an "unwritten" constitution, one that is termed a constitution of "Statute and Law" - the legal code is the constitution.

The Bill of Rights 1689 set the stage, detailing the way things were ran and the individual rights of citizens, etc. It predated the US constitution by roughly 100 years and is supposedly an influence in that later document. The BoR1689 has since been surplanted by statutes and laws that expand on it in separate Acts and Statutes.

For example the BoR1689 permits landowners and gentlemen to carry sufficient arms to protect themselves and their property. We got rid of those rights bit by bit as we realised that carrying weapons meant people got killed, gun improvements made that easier, and it was written in a time when there was no police force. The yanks prefer to kill each other with gleeful disreguard for Common Sense (spot the sly Thomas Paine ref????) and keep a 250 year old law on the books despite the fact they aint carrying muzzle loading one shot muskets any more. You'd have thought the word "Ammendment" might have given them the clue it could be changed, but they also seem to not understand what the "well regulated militia" bit refers to either.

The UK also has an older primary legal system called the Common Law. Common Law is an amalgam of Danelaw from the North and Anglo Saxon laws from the South. The Common Law is only superceded by Statute (or "Admiralty") Law - Acts of Parliament, local and revenue statute, etc. Thailand doesnt have, to my knowledge, such a secondary system.

The constitutional monarchies run under much the same rules as far as I understand. All Acts of parliament and political appointments must (on paper) have royal consent that could theoretically be withheld. I think Thailand based its constitutional monarchy rules on those of the UK.

The only difference I can see easily if that the Queen is nominally the head of the Church of England as well as ruler, wheras the King of Thailand doesnt nominally run the Buddhist religion in Thailand.

The reason our democracy sort of works and Thailands is sort of a mess is IMHO just down to the fact we have been at it for longer. Thailand has been democratic for less than 100 years, we have been democratic since the Parliamentary Protectorate/Commonwealth period 300 years earlier..... so I cut em some slack on not understanding what it means and how it works. On being too thick and xenophobic to look and learn from their "elders" I dont.

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Re: History Challenge

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↑ Thanks for that. I'm now wiser about it all then I was last night. :thumb: Pete :cheers:
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Re: History Challenge

Post by Jimbob »

Page 14/15: to finish up the famous locos: besides Gadaffi
no. 1 is usually called a 'Mikado' or by US trainspotters a 4-6-0.
No.2 is the 'Howart Express' but really GWR 5972 being a 4-8-2
No. 3 was identified by Nereus is a 'Mallard'.
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