Land/house ownership problem solved?

[JimmyGreaves]

Anyone gone the Superficies root. Was gonna get it setup a quite few years ago but the local lawyers where sceptical when I showed them what I had read.

No, and don't know anyone in Hua Hin that has to be honest. Although read about farangs using them in other parts of Thailand. What in particular was lawyer sceptical about JG, as when I brought it up with one of the largest firms in town they sort of dismissed it on the basis that their firm 'prefer' to use Usufructs, but never mentioned anything specific for or against Superficies. It came across that they hadn't tried, and didn't really want to which was dissapointing. But as I just threw it in while dealing with something different I didn't push it.

SJ

Well I read a lot about it 4 years ago and it seemed the best route for me as it sounds that I'm in the same boat as you SJ 4 year old daughter here and wanting the land/property as her inheritance. Anyway as you said the lawyers did not seem to know much about it and turned up their nose similar to asking a UK garage 'how much to repair the car'. Bottom line is I'm still on the company road but it nags me!

This was the thread all that time ago that I was reading I believe, house is built now so there could be issues as they seem to prefer virgin land to grant the superficies.

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/legal- ... iland.html

[Super Joe]

I am still not clear on just what form the Usufruct takes. Is it drawn up similar to a lease or not?

Here's an example in this link, an also a standard land office one...
http://www.samuiforsale.com/Other-Misce ... ample.html
It's like a lease in as much as it's a contract that gets attached to the title (put on file with), and your name goes on back of land title with 'lifetime' or similar wording denoted.

I forgot to add yesterday Nereus, that if they do insist on a consideration, and therefore tax for your daughter, maybe 50% of the tax could be the 'withholding tax', ie: personal income tax (PIT) deducted at source and paid to central revenue department, as 'income' from lease/usufruct consideration is taxable. But if they deducted PIT from your daughter for full lease term (30 years) in one go last time, and do again for usufruct, then she would be able to claim refund on remaining years of lease tax paid from revenue department.

SJ

[Nereus]

Thanks SJ.

Not sure that I follow what you are saying here. Yes, I see that if she is going to receive any income from any form of contract, then she would be liable for PIT. That is why she is liable to pay tax on the Baht 15,000 per annum the TessaBaan has charged her previously.

But where does it come into it that any charge the Land Dept may make on registering a contract, lease or whatever, would be classing that as income to my Daughter? I thought what was paid to the Land Dept when the lease contract was registered, was a form of "stamp duty", and goes into general revenue.

I have looked at the receipt for that and it was 10% of the total 30 year amount (3 Mil), plus 3,000 Baht of a scrawled word I cannot make out except that it has % alongside of it and appears to be VAT, plus another one of 5 Baht and finally one for 10 Baht!

I know, I should be getting a Lawyer to sort it out, but after what the last pricks did to me I am very wary. As some other posters have mentioned, some of them plainly do not know, and some of them are evidently not interested in looking after the clients best interest.

[Super Joe]

Thanks SJ.
Not sure that I follow what you are saying here. Yes, I see that if she is going to receive any income from any form of contract, then she would be liable for PIT. That is why she is liable to pay tax on the Baht 15,000 per annum the TessaBaan has charged her previously.

But where does it come into it that any charge the Land Dept may make on registering a contract, lease or whatever, would be classing that as income to my Daughter? I thought what was paid to the Land Dept when the lease contract was registered, was a form of "stamp duty", and goes into general revenue.

I have looked at the receipt for that and it was 10% [is this just typo & should be 1%?] of the total 30 year amount (3 Mil), plus 3,000 Baht of a scrawled word I cannot make out except that it has % alongside of it and appears to be VAT, plus another one of 5 Baht and finally one for 10 Baht!

Right, think I've got to the bottom of it Nereus. I gave you a bum steer about PIT being levied on leases at land office, as you spotted thanks, it's actually a lease 'registration fee' they charge, and it's the same charge whether registering a mortgage, loan, lease, usufruct, or superficies...
Land lease registration fee shall be collected at the rate of 1% of the total rental throughout the lease term and a 0.1 % registration stamp duty.

So...
3,000,000 x 1% lease registration fee = 30,000 Baht.
3,000,000 x 0.1% reg. stamp duty = 3,000 Baht.
You just need to sway them into not relating the same 3 mil. value to the new Usufruct now


Here's one of our old land office tax bills, but this was just a land sale so may be a different form to yours, or different line entries...

DSCF3700.JPG (67.73 KiB) Viewed 475 times

SJ

[Nereus]

OK, thanks SJ.

Yes, that is the `orible pink receipt that I have, and yes again it is 1%, not 10%! (that`s about the third time that I have written it wrong )

barrys has written that the Land Dept accepted their usufruct at zero value, but that was not in the Hua Hin office.

I am still a bit wary of leaving my name on the Chanote, as it is fairly obvious what we are trying to do, especially as it would be changing it from a lease. If it was just a fresh registration it would maybe have a better reception.

[hollister]

I would not consider any legal form or product that lasts a life time or rephrased where anybody will have an incentive seeing me dead.