Global Warming/Climate Change 2

[STEVE G]

Arctic also sees heat wave, on course for record ice melt
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43832680/ns ... vironment/

[hhfarang]

...creating a northwest passage saving millions for the shipping industry by not having to burn so much fossil fuel to go through the Panama Canal...

[Dr Mike]

To move from the political/philosophical discussions to the practical.
Has any forum memberr installed solar panels on your house in HH?
what was your experience/cost etc??

[STEVE G]

To move from the political/philosophical discussions to the practical.
Has any forum memberr installed solar panels on your house in HH?
what was your experience/cost etc??

I haven't but I'm interested as I'm just in the process of building a house and it's certainly something I will do in the future.
I've just managed to find the details of this company: http://www.saveenergyasia.com/index.html which I believe is run by someone who either lives in Hua Hin or used to as I met him once.
In the situation I'm in, I can make money now but I want to work less as I get older so if I can install something that means I have no electricity bill in the future, it would be worthwhile.
Once they get to the stage of producing cheap electric cars with about 150 km of range, which should come in the next five years, I would consider one of those with a solar car-port to power it as well.

[KhîiLên]

I want to work less as I get older so if I can install something that means I have no electricity bill in the future, it would be worthwhile.

No problem at all, but it will cost. You will need battery backup (24VDC PARALLELL) located in a ventilated and fireproof shack, outside the house you live in. Remember if you choose the 24VDC solution you need to connect the panels in parallell as well to charge 24VDC. The size of your backup depends on your daily usage of amperes but it should at least be 7 times that, it will keep you going for a week without backup. This is where most companies are bastards and greedy, this is why cellphones die in powersurges. The telecompanies don't care to invest in backup power. Most don't that is

Use this page to figure it out aproximitly:
http://w w w . solarrvpanels.com/index.php/determining-the-total-amount-of-amp-hours-you-will-consume/

Now, if you want to use alternating current, you will need a DC-> AC inverter/converter. It will cause a minor power loss maybe 10%. Most appliances use AC power so it's more economical sound to convert to AC.

Now, relying on the sun alone is risky business. If you want power all the time, you will need many batteries. You must think of how many sunny days there are in the region, how many days you'll have efficient current loading to the batteries from the solar panels. Also, keep in mind the direction. The panels must stay clear from shadows as long as the sun is up or you will loose a lot of charging. Maybe as much as 70% from just a small shadow (size of a tennis ball) on the panel.

If you have the cash, you want to invest in a fuel cell (industrial) to convert water into hydrogen when the batteries are fully charged and you don't "need" the panels. That way you use the panels to create hydrogen gas that you store in bottles in a safe place. And I mean safe. No need to remind you of the hindenburg disaster. It's a higly flamable and delicate gas. But if treated properly it's harmless. So this way. You have a storage of gas and batteries. When the sun is giving you a hard time. You just flick a switch and you start inflow of hydrogen gas into the fuel cell, that will turn it into useful electricity for you. The fuelcell will charge your batteries and you can use your refrigerator, take a warm shower and so on.

The best part is that you can actually use the gas to fuel your car. That is, if you have a car that runs on fuel cell or hydrogen =)

It's worth it if you can afford it but very few people can put up for a one time investment like that. Batteries need to be of the long life type. Everything else is just shit if you ask me. The last for 20 years and maybe more. The Yuasa brand is very good, I've been using them a lot in my job.

[STEVE G]

Yes, all that would cost far more than the house!
A small system that took care of the basic Thai utility loads shouldn't be unachievable though: a fridge, lighting, TV and the odd fan with enough storage to get you through the night. Anything more than that would start getting very expensive but the prices are dropping all the time.

[sandman67]

http://www.tgs.co.th/index.html

german/thai company who do solar and wind power gear

write em a mail and ask for some brochures

dont forget....being costal with the hills behind HH acting as a heatsink means plenty of potential wind power as well

[STEVE G]

Another consideration as well:

Solar panel options expand, help cool buildings
http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... uildings/1

[KhîiLên]

Ok, for solar only, you just need to make sure that the battery storage in ampere hours are sufficient for your personal use. You need an inverter 12 or 24VDC to 230VAC. You also need wiring to a fuse and then out to the appliances you want to power by the solar system.

You don't want to power washing machines, the fridge and stove by solar power, if you have some electrical heating on the stove as it will drain the batteries pretty darn fast. If you buy quality batteries and enough of em you probably could as well. Get them with as much Ampere hours as you can, maintainance free and buy Long life (NPL). You won't save anything by buying cheap ass batteries with little led in them. Invest in quality batteries and your system will live much longer.

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/allabout.php

[STEVE G]

Yes, I see that Yuasa make some pretty impressive batteries:
http://www.solaronline.com.au/875ah-cen ... ttery.html

[poosmate]

The most efficient storage of surplus electricity is the national grid. The 'feed in' method is already in use in solar farms in Thailand.
I predict that home producers will be allowed as in other countries soon as 'green' production usually comes with generous grants and incentives that could be shared

[STEVE G]

The most efficient storage of surplus electricity is the national grid. The 'feed in' method is already in use in solar farms in Thailand.

That's something that I've been thinking about for the future as we have some farmland up in Issan in an area where there isn't really enough rainfall to efficiently farm anything much.
If the prices of PV panels continue to drop and you can sell the stuff to the national grid, farming electricity might be the way ahead.
If we used the amount of irrigation available to produce food on about a quarter of the land and farmed electricity off the rest of it, you could conceivably make a far better living than farming rice or sugar.
Because of the rainfall patterns, you can only really grow anything on the land for about four months a year but sunlight falls on it most of the time. With a bit of imagination you could even perhaps position moveable panels that allowed you to farm underneath them, certainly pigs wouldn't mind a bit of shade.
Here where I'm working in Luxembourg many of the farmers have covered there barns and cowsheds in solar panels.

[Nereus]

The most efficient storage of surplus electricity is the national grid. The 'feed in' method is already in use in solar farms in Thailand.
I predict that home producers will be allowed as in other countries soon as 'green' production usually comes with generous grants and incentives that could be shared

Maybe we should start a solar energy thread?
The below is what has happened in Oz. The systems are not cheap to install, and the government has already cut back on the price they pay suppliers.

There are some articles on the Internet concerning Thailand, but as I see it the price paid per Kwhr would rule out individual producers.
.............................................................................................

Solar power scheme axed to kill rush

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/ne ... kill-rush/

The State Government was forced to shut its popular solar panel subsidy scheme yesterday to prevent a "run" on it from householders who feared they might miss out, Premier Colin Barnett said.

A day after saying the feed-in- tariff scheme, which pays households for electricity from rooftop solar panels fed into the energy grid, was "being monitored", Energy Minister Peter Collier suspended it.

The West Australian reported yesterday that the scheme would soon hit the Government's 150MW capacity cap, imposed to prevent the cost getting out of control.

The industry believed the cap would be hit within weeks but Mr Collier, after discussing the issue with Mr Barnett yesterday, suspended it immediately.

"The decision had to be made," Mr Barnett said. "It was on the front page of The West Australian.

"Once that appeared we had to act, otherwise there would have been a run on the scheme."

The scheme has been slashed twice before and the industry and Opposition said ending it would cost hundreds of jobs. Mr Barnett conceded the Government could not say how much capacity had been approved for the scheme before yesterday, but he believed it had just about reached the cap.

Despite being forced to cancel new applications just 11 months after the scheme began, Mr Collier continued to insist it had been "phenomenally successful".

Shadow energy minister Kate Doust said the decision made no sense and the Government had no credibility on the environment.

"It's going to put further pressure on families who wanted to cut back on their power bills," she said.

Sustainable Energy Association chief Ray Wills said the scheme was axed without warning and would likely have significant short-term negative effects on the solar installation industry.

He said the Government failed to consult the industry and this made it difficult to plan.

Professor Wills said the renewable energy industry was plagued by government decisions that caused boom and bust cycles that did not let it grow sustainably.

[STEVE G]

I was reading an article recently that basically said that removing all government subsidies would actually be beneficial in that it would drive down the price of PV panels that is being kept artificially high by suppliers.
These panels aren't anything special anymore and mass production combined with increased technology should make them much cheaper over the next few years. Apparently the actual panels as opposed to installations have dropped by about 60% since 2008 so if you maintain that type of efficiency, they'll soon be viable without any subsidies.

[KhîiLên]

I was reading an article recently that basically said that removing all government subsidies would actually be beneficial in that it would drive down the price of PV panels that is being kept artificially high by suppliers.
These panels aren't anything special anymore and mass production combined with increased technology should make them much cheaper over the next few years. Apparently the actual panels as opposed to installations have dropped by about 60% since 2008 so if you maintain that type of efficiency, they'll soon be viable without any subsidies.

The producers actually have a hard time surviving because people aren't buying enough panels, if they kill the prices they can sell more, which would be good for everyone. Except for the distributors that will loose on lowering prices. What the producers want is to increase the efficiency in turning sunlight wattage into useable electric wattage.

If you can come up with a method to cut the silicon ingot's into thinner wafers than they do today you will become one of the richest men in the world =)