Hua Hin/Thailand: why are you there?

[mafiamind]

I am an American living here in Hua Hin, and although I am not on a retirement pension, I am living off of educational benefits from the military. I have no problem telling you that I live here pretty comfortable on less than 1300USD a month(only during school months), but it all depends on your lifestyle.

As far as the negative things you hear about, they do exist. I get very frustrated here sometimes dealing with things, but just like anywhere else there are always trade-offs. An example that comes to mind is the many things here that won't make much sense, like pedestrian crosswalks(completely ignored by drivers), but at least the weather is decent and the housing is cheap.

The whole Brit/Yank thing is not that big of a deal. I get along with anyone, and I have never had a problem dealing with any person from any country living overseas in general . If I were to get into a conflict here with someone, I highly doubt it would be a person from the UK as we tend to agree on more issues than we disagree on.

[Terry]

........ with a 3rd world infrastructure?...............

Are you sure?

Get out of the main cities, and the roads in India are for the most part, absolute shite.
The Railways are just as overcrowded and run down as those in Thailand but the accident rates are higher there.
Try living in Delhi without experiencing the many power cuts and water shotages - much worse than in Thailand.
Sample a few Indian Airports and Suvarnabhumi will appear like heaven in comparison - even to Deli's newer main airport - Where they do not accept their own currency in Duty Free!
Hygiene in India is almost non existent
Try walking down a street in India without getting mobbed by beggars
How many of the male species in Thailand do you observe urinating up against a wall in a day?

Thailand ain't perfect but it is streets ahead of India in respect of infrastructure.

If Thailand is third world then India must be still in the dark ages - but they will tell you it's 'World Class'

Amazing Thailand - Incredulous India

[richard]

The whole Brit/Yank thing is not that big of a deal. I get along with anyone, and I have never had a problem dealing with any person from any country living overseas in general . If I were to get into a conflict here with someone, I highly doubt it would be a person from the UK as we tend to agree on more issues than we disagree on.

I'm a Brit (Yorkshireman) and have many US and Canadian friends here and in the US, Canada and UK. We quibble about differences but IMO get on great. If you cannot take a joke go live in a monastery.

I think most of the bashing is about governments not the people

[sargeant]

Mafiamind wrote

The whole Brit/Yank thing is not that big of a deal.

and richards last line is so so true

[SunandFun]

........ with a 3rd world infrastructure?...............

Are you sure?

Get out of the main cities, and the roads in India are for the most part, absolute shite.
The Railways are just as overcrowded and run down as those in Thailand but the accident rates are higher there.
Try living in Delhi without experiencing the many power cuts and water shotages - much worse than in Thailand.
Sample a few Indian Airports and Suvarnabhumi will appear like heaven in comparison - even to Deli's newer main airport - Where they do not accept their own currency in Duty Free!
Hygiene in India is almost non existent
Try walking down a street in India without getting mobbed by beggars
How many of the male species in Thailand do you observe urinating up against a wall in a day?

Thailand ain't perfect but it is streets ahead of India in respect of infrastructure.

If Thailand is third world then India must be still in the dark ages - but they will tell you it's 'World Class'

Amazing Thailand - Incredulous India

Terry, You are spot on! Been in Delhi for 9 years. Took two years to stop hating it! Of course a lot of that was ME! (This was my first time living outside of USA.) Delhi-Dark Ages and Banana Republic! Pretty well sums it up. In comparison...Thailand is paradise. All IMHO! Thanks.

[Terry]

S&F

Off topic I know

But I'm a Londoner - and I HATE CRICKET - to me it's like watching paint dry.

Heaven help you if you don't like cricket and live in India.........................since around 40% of all news broadcasts and newspapers contain the latest on it + of course which cricketer is bonking what Bollywood starlet

Back to topic

[usual suspect]

..Classic line outa the film 'Air America'.."Why are we here??!!" (about 5 pilots shout this out together in a bar..they were there flying shady missions in Laos around the end of the 'Vietnam-conflict')..
WHY ARE WE HERE??

[BingoBango]

Considering retiring somewhere that you have not even visited.

This has got to be a knobhead

[dtaai-maai]

^^Interesting - where exactly does this 'knobhead' say that he's never visited HH?

[Antaro]

the mix of choice and costs in thailand (here hua hin) is ok

[T.I.G.R.]

Hi CalGuy -

Sorry to join the party late but I see our British brethren have kept you busy so far.

To give you a quick answer first, I live here for two reasons:

1) I married a beautiful girl from Bangkok 25 years ago.
2) I got prostrate cancer in 2002 when I was 58 and spent the next four years being sick from that, pneumonia, nightly headaches, allergies etc etc. which became a continuing nightmare. Had planned on working until I was 70 but we decided I would probably die before that so we had to go somewhere............as the sole provider of our two person family I was looking at a monthly income after early retirement of $2,000 a month plus whatever we could draw from our savings. As you well know, those savings aren't what they used to be so we live basically on my Social Security checks and try to hoard savings what we have left for medical expenses etc.

As you also undoubtedly also know a mouse couldn't live in America on $2,000 a month...........so it was a Spanish speaking locale or Thailand. My bride had enough trouble learning English so that's pretty much why we live here. Both of us are happy here now but obviously we would have preferred to stay in Ca. had we had the option.

Now I'll tell you why we're happy here:

1) It isn't like it came easy, but after nearly six years we both feel settled in and have a nice lifestyle. We were extremely lucky to find and purchase a huge condo (about 2,600 sq ft) right on the beach in Cha Am four years ago. It was really cheap and we were able to remodel it completely for at total cost of about $240K. You can buy a very nice house for that here as well, but surely you've read the property section and know what a hassle that could be......we went through 1 and 3/4 house building attempts before we lucked out on the condo. Cha Am is peaceful and doesn't have anywhere near the traffic in Hua Hin....just right for a couple from rural Ca.

2) We both play golf at Palm Hills, eat well and live nicely on our $2K a month. Honestly if we didn't play golf we could live on half of that. Mind you our house and car are both paid for....which when you retire should be a prerequisite....otherwise keep working.

2) I am not a big fan of Thai food but since we've moved here to the Hua Hin area our food and entertainment choices have multiplied. No-one will go hungry here no matter what their preferences are and you can eat out anywhere from a dollar each to about twenty dollars each, depending on what you like to eat.

3) Groceries are about the same as in the states cost-wise but having a Thai wife we shop at the local outdoor markets and probably spend only about two or three hundred a month on food and eating out.....don't eat out that much but enough to keep us happy.

3) I had expected to learn a lot of Thai from watching Thai TV but our UBC Satellite system, no matter how much we complain, keeps us very happy with watching choices. Lots of sitcoms, sports and a wee bit of news which is probably a good thing. I also have learned how to get and watch movies on the internet (using a media player to hook up to the big TV). The total cost of our TV package which is our largest expense other than golf is about $84 a month. Our electric bill is a little over $50 a month because we don't use air here on the beach....although we did buy a little unit for our bedroom after I had back surgery in March.....water bill is around ten dollars a month (cheap condo living.....a house would cost more for both Electric and Water, maybe double what we pay here)

4) Medical expenses are "relatively" cheap here. I just paid about 12K for major back surgery......no insurance any more at my age and you know what that would cost you in the States, ergo "relatively".....a lot for me with our income and assets but I would have been bankrupt probably in the U.S. if it weren't for Medicare which you can't have over here. Again, thanks to what's left of our savings.

5) Gasoline for the Ford Escape which gets about 20 mpg is somewhere around a hundred a month.....but of course no more driving back and forth to work so after six years we've only got about 53,000 miles on it. Right now that's 41.80 baht a liter so you'll have to compute it but somewhere north of $5 per gallon I think.

6) After all that you're done.....no property taxes, no income taxes (here not there), no outrageous fees, misc. charges on your property taxes, huge traffic fines etc. that run up the bills in the U.S. There's a 7% or so VAT tax on most everything but what you get at the "local" markets and I don't even bother to look at what it is.......it's always included so I don't worry about it.

7) TV and golf are our only entertainment fixes except for the occasional dinner or lunch out with friends.....and we have as our close friends an American couple who also bought here when we did, A German man and his Singaporean wife from the condo who come here for a couple of months a year, An Ecuadorian man and his wife across the hall, Two British couples we met from living around here, An American couple who come into town once or twice a year who live in KL who we met golfing, and two Swedish guys we play golf with three times a week or so (and their Thai Girlfriends). Natalie has a big family that we see several times a year when they come down for the beach and New Year and Songran up at the family home in Baan Me north of Bangkok about two hours. So much for not getting along with the different regional factions.....we've got lots of other pleasant acquaintances and I can only say that you occasionally run into some grumpy fart on the golf course, and don't expect too many Thai friends (too hard to learn Thai at my age anyway), they do tend to be lovely people but honestly most are more than happy to live in their own world and leave us to ours.

As mentioned by someone else I don't think there are too many places where you will generally be more welcomed and tolerated. Thai people are by nature and their Buddhist upbringing extremely friendly and kind people......well, except for the ones who find themselves on the highways and byways......just learn to stay out of their way, but that's another story already well told. The only big thing you must learn to be happy here is don't yell at people, don't get in their faces and above all don't be too loud. You'll not see anyone disappear faster than a Thai who has been embarrassed or dressed down......not cool at all.

I think that's about it, probably could go on for a couple of hours but my butt's getting sore. Anything I didn't think of please ask and I'll be happy to blab some more about it.

Oh, one last thing which I know you will appreciate. There is virtually no speed limit here until you run into a traffic cop who needs lunch money. No speed limit signs at all except for the ones that tell you to drive 80 kmh on the expressways in Bangkok........like anyone drives that slow anywhere.......a traffic stop or violation will cost you two or three hundred baht depending on how brave you are. As noted above pleasant manners will get you everywhere here......I got mad at a traffic cop who stopped me near the airport a couple of years ago because I had already been stopped once near Petchburi and it cost me 500 baht.....so after two stops in one day I had spent about $26 in fines.....pretty cheap eh? Also, pretty much no driving rules except for the no u-turn signs which about 99% of Thai drivers ignore.....just don't run anyone over or get in an accident. No. 1 rule of the road here is if there's an accident it's the falang's fault...even if it's not.

Take care and make sure you look us up when you're here.....we don't drink but will be happy to treat you to a nice lunch somewhere.

[PeteC]

Really excellent reply TIGR, thanks for your time and trouble, and I think I speak for the entire forum. Pete

[sargeant]

It certainly gets my vote as well

it would also fit perfectly in the cost of living thread

[dtaai-maai]

Yep. (Edit: I agree with Pete) A well-balanced, very helpful post.

TIGR's monthly income of $2k may not seem a lot, but with the lump sump sums he mentioned to buy and renovate the condo and buy the car, that makes a huge difference. I'm 55 and teaching here with a small income from the UK. Give me a lump sum now of (for example) 10 million baht and I would be completely relaxed about the future.


Sarge: our posts crossed, but as someone else recently pointed out, the cost of living thread is of extremely limited use because there are so many variables.

[T.I.G.R.]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the nice feedback. If you can stand it, here's some more stuff I think we all ought to share:

DT - Regards the lump sum, that's why I pointed out that if you can't pay cash for your home and a car you are in a tremendously bad spot for retirement. We actually started serious saving and investing for the future when I was 45. I had a small accounting practice and was offered a job with a small telephone company that would provide me with the added benefits of a health insurance and profit sharing plan; two things I couldn't afford in my small business, so I took the plunge and sold out of what was a pretty fun deal as I had no boss and as a business owner could run my life as I saw fit. It ended up being the best thing I ever did.

Mind you, I had been working toward this outcome for probably five or six years before hand, with the knowledge I needed to do a lot better if I was going to be able to retire comfortably. I was lucky to be in a position to do it and the only advice I can give in that regard is you have to look to the future and try to figure out where you could possibly go to get to where you need to be......if you aren't working somewhere that will provide you with a good outcome in your early sixties you need to make changes so you will get there somehow, and you can't start five years from retirement, more like fifteen. I've read a lot of studies that suggest more than 65% of Americans aren't prepared for retirement.....and I can tell you from my family's experiences and watching friends those numbers are probably very accurate.

In my own case I made the critical mistake of not having my wife working.....all my friends and family with a two income solution are ultimately twice as well off as we are because no matter what happens with their savings and investments they BOTH get a Social Security benefit. Had we had two retirement benefits available to us instead of one we probably would not have had to move to Thailand.

Ultimately, unless you're lucky enough to amass a pretty sizable fortune (more than 2 million dollars at retirement, including home equity) you could end up like us and because of an economic turn-down lose half or more of what you've accumulated to get you started with retirement. I've written about it before on other threads but we lost more than half our cash equities in 2006 and beyond because of the housing and market crash. Three hundred thousand in cold, hard cash disappeared in our home which we lost to the bank after a 20% down payment and seven years of payments.....six of which I made hoping the market would turn around as it had in 2001 when we were able to recover from a similar housing meltdown that held us down for five years before that. The rest we lost in a very well managed retirement account......you just can't always outrun the market.

I'm not crying here for the sake of it because pretty much everyone in the world is in the same boat.....what I'm saying is that even the best laid plans can go afoul so you have to be both a good planner and fortunate to assure yourselves of a decent outcome; and you have to start early enough to accumulate both equities and benefits from your work, which is going to be a primary income provider on top of your accumulated equities. Of course, really smart people are born to families who can help them get started and then don't have to do so much planning. Had I been a much smarter baby I would have gotten a womb transfer to the Bill Gates family! Live and learn eh?

Well, more blabbing, but I hope helpful as well to all you guys who write in with your plans to retire in X years......we don't usually know how old you are or what your options are, so those of you who aren't yet ahead of the game I hope this will help you in your planning. I know I spent a heck of a lot of time asking around about what people had when they retired and what kinds of plans they made; and frankly I never got a single person to tell me what I've laid out in these two posts.

The biggest question I always had and never had an answer to was just how much money did I need? I had guessed about two million and that would have been the right number for us. We were living for the last ten years of my working on a pretty decent income, $150K a year at the end plus a 15% retirement contribution from 1990-2005. We ended up cashing everything out in Ca. but our home (which ultimately had a value of zero) and I moved here with about ten million baht cash and about five million baht in the retirement account. We spent about 8.5 million of the cash on a house and our car, sold the house by taking back a big first mortgage and bought the condo with a four million baht note that I'm still paying off.....hopefully in two years we'll be back in a positive cash flow situation and even with only the $2K a month I figure we'll be able to save about twenty thousand baht a month as we get a little older and quit playing so much golf......

Which brings me blabbing even more about the real estate market in HH and Cha Am.......it isn't that good, and you all need to know that before you get here. It's been really slow since we moved here in 2006. Lots of construction then and now but selling used real estate in Thailand isn't as easy as it always has been in American, and from what I understand in both England and Australia....obviously it isn't easy at all now anywhere, but Thailand is unique in that Thai people don't like stuff that isn't new, so that's something to adjust to. The Thai market is also mostly in values that are less than say 5 million....so us falangs that pony up 7 million and more on a nice big house end up with egg on our faces when we want to move on to somewhere else. We were extremely lucky to sell the first house we bought, and as I said, had to take a mortgage on it to do so, which in the end meant I also had to borrow money to get the place we have now. So, again, not information most people will share with you but I was in the business of providing financial advice for over forty years so why stop now? Everyone's advice to rent first and figure out what to do in a few months is spot on. I bought some property here in 2005 because I could see the beginning of the end in America and wanted to get ahead of the curve here......it worked out O.K. for us but we still ended up getting caught in a crunch because I bought properties I ultimately didn't want because of their location.....so word to the wise, don't be in a big hurry to buy. There are lots of things about Thailand you need to know before you commit to actually putting a lot of money down.....give yourself time to have a good look around before you commit to anything permanent.

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