Terror plot to bomb planes foiled in the UK

[caller]

Hollygolightly - great name by the way!

The funding of the Provisional IRA from within the USA was appalling, but it wasn't Gov't funded and eventually they got it under control.

Not sure why you're mentioning the cost of 9/11? I can't believe you're buying into "the US did it really" scenario that worryingly, some 13% of the muslim population in the UK believe?

I also worked in London during a part of the IRA';s campaign - in Berners St, off of Oxford Street to be precise. had my share of scares. Not sure of the relevance to the current debate really? Does anyone remember all hand luggage being searched before being allowed to enter a store?

As for the BNP taking advantage of the "climate of fear", I don't think we need to worry about that, the great British public will make its own mind up, and I fear that the tolerance won't last for too much longer. I personally despair everytime I hear a Govt. minister talk about the impact on the muslim community from such events as we are witnessing - what about the rest of us?

Strange, if you are to believed, that the Govt. would choose such a sensitive area to invent a story to deflect attention from the mid-east? At the risk of upping the ante on racial tension.

Conspiracy theories only really work when a small number of people are in involved. What is happening here involves a cast of thousands.

[Jockey]

Hollygolightly - great name by the way!

Conspiracy theories only really work when a small number of people are in involved. What is happening here involves a cast of thousands.

Sorry caller - have to pull you up on that one:

Millions watched the first Man Moon Landing live from the Nevada desert.

The whole world was shocked as Lee H Oswald shot Kennedy - (no one else involved)? Aye right!

Bush invaded Iraq to find WMD's!

(Not saying what happened one way or the other with these examples but the point is there were cast's of thousands in each case).

It is plausable only a few people at the head of government created this "sham" and the cast of thousands are involved unknowingly, but I agree with you - highly unlikely (I think?)

[STEVE G]

Caller wrote;
I can't believe you're buying into "the US did it really" scenario that worryingly, some 13% of the muslim population in the UK believe?

It strikes me that had some covert branch of the American government indeed managed to develop the impressive ability to inflict death, destruction, and financial mayhem, by raining airliners from the sky, it might have occurred to them to have used this on one of their enemies, instead of themselves!

[DawnHRD]

Caller wrote;
I can't believe you're buying into "the US did it really" scenario that worryingly, some 13% of the muslim population in the UK believe?

It strikes me that had some covert branch of the American government indeed managed to develop the impressive ability to inflict death, destruction, and financial mayhem, by raining airliners from the sky, it might have occurred to them to have used this on one of their enemies, instead of themselves!

Why? Far more PR value to do it to yourself & blame someone else, than to do it to that "someone else" & risk the wrath of the peacemongers. What's a few civilians compared with thousands of soldiers?
I'm not saying I ascribe to the conspiracy theory, but I don't think you can disprove it that easily.

[lomuamart]

Left BKK Tuesday 8th, flight held at gate, all asked to deplane, a man had checked two bags but failed to board, so we all had to deplane while they located his bags and removed them.


Retured to bangkok BA9 from LHR Saturday night ( 12th), club desks normally empty were absolutely packed, as were all the other desks even First ! plastic bags everywhere, things were confiscated by security at the entry to departures, yet you could buy whatever you wanted airside and they could be taken on board.
bearing in mind ne of the people arrested was working airside and had access to restricted areas this concerns me a great deal......
flight was delayed by only 30 minutes and went smoothy after that

So, here's someone who's flown recently.
I think you're all missing the point - terrorism has one aim - to cause terror. Don't ever forget that.
To cause chaos, disruption and financial cost - let alone the loss of human life - is the aim.
How people react to this threat is the antidote.
Life's got to go on and people have got to fly, as the above poster has done.
And I forgot to say, it dosn't matter from which direction that terror comes.

[STEVE G]

Dawn wrote;
I'm not saying I ascribe to the conspiracy theory, but I don't think you can disprove it that easily.


Hi Dawn, I think the figures speak for themselves;

In New York City, 9/11 and after,

2,819 Lives lost.
146,100 Jobs lost.
Cost of cleanup, 600 million USD
FEMA spent, 970 million USD
Insurance payouts, 40.2 billion USD
Economic loss in the following month, 105 billion USD
Damage to subway system, 7.5 billion USD

And in the US,
Drop in value of economy, 11 trillion USD
Funding for airline assistance, 15 billion USD
Drop in DJIA, 684.1 points

Etc, etc, etc.

It seems an excessive cost for a PR exercise.

[Jockey]

Dawn wrote;
I'm not saying I ascribe to the conspiracy theory, but I don't think you can disprove it that easily.


Hi Dawn, I think the figures speak for themselves;

In New York City, 9/11 and after,

2,819 Lives lost.
146,100 Jobs lost.
Cost of cleanup, 600 million USD
FEMA spent, 970 million USD
Insurance payouts, 40.2 billion USD
Economic loss in the following month, 105 billion USD
Damage to subway system, 7.5 billion USD

And in the US,
Drop in value of economy, 11 trillion USD
Funding for airline assistance, 15 billion USD
Drop in DJIA, 684.1 points

Etc, etc, etc.

It seems an excessive cost for a PR exercise.

How much do the arms dealers and oil moguls make out of it?
What was the cost of the Vietam war? - a lot more lives lost than 9/11 and a lot more costly but they still DECIDED to do it.
Similarly, what has been the cost of the IRAQ war - who has made the profit? There's a lot of money to made in war. Billions! It is alleged the USA needed an excuse and some people think 9/11 was the excuse they needed.

[DawnHRD]

Dawn wrote;
I'm not saying I ascribe to the conspiracy theory, but I don't think you can disprove it that easily.


Hi Dawn, I think the figures speak for themselves;

In New York City, 9/11 and after,

2,819 Lives lost.
146,100 Jobs lost.
Cost of cleanup, 600 million USD
FEMA spent, 970 million USD
Insurance payouts, 40.2 billion USD
Economic loss in the following month, 105 billion USD
Damage to subway system, 7.5 billion USD

And in the US,
Drop in value of economy, 11 trillion USD
Funding for airline assistance, 15 billion USD
Drop in DJIA, 684.1 points

Etc, etc, etc.

It seems an excessive cost for a PR exercise.

Do you have the figures to hand to show how much the 2 Gulf Wars cost both financially & in human terms? How about the hunts for Osama Bin Laden & Saddam Hussein?

I really don't know what's going on in this case, I actually do go more for the accepted view. However, you can't discount the effect of "good" PR. Many Americans (I apologise in advance to anyone reading, I don't wish to come over as Xenophobic) have never travelled outside USA. Many do not own a passport. These particular people may be more willing to accept their Govt's explanation of a situation, as they have never really experienced other cultures. I'm really just being devil's advocate

[Jockey]

Dawn wrote;
I'm not saying I ascribe to the conspiracy theory, but I don't think you can disprove it that easily.


Hi Dawn, I think the figures speak for themselves;

In New York City, 9/11 and after,

2,819 Lives lost.
146,100 Jobs lost.
Cost of cleanup, 600 million USD
FEMA spent, 970 million USD
Insurance payouts, 40.2 billion USD
Economic loss in the following month, 105 billion USD
Damage to subway system, 7.5 billion USD

And in the US,
Drop in value of economy, 11 trillion USD
Funding for airline assistance, 15 billion USD
Drop in DJIA, 684.1 points

Etc, etc, etc.

It seems an excessive cost for a PR exercise.

Also ... these figure present a false impression i.e. sure the DJIA fell 684 points but it recovered to normality and is now way higher than it was the day before 9/11 happened - Drop in VALUE of economy - what does that mean? Insurance payouts - from who to who?

Also ... I hardly think anyone is claiming it was a PR exercise!!!!

[hollygolightly1]

[quote="caller"]
Not sure why you're mentioning the cost of 9/11? I can't believe you're buying into "the US did it really" scenario that worryingly, some 13% of the muslim population in the UK believe?
[/quote="caller"]

I wasn't necessarily saying they did it, I was saying that the government ignored warnings. Remember the site itself had already been targeted. The "cost" to the US is also difficult to assess because if you take the site of the world trade centre itself, it's worth more now in real estate terms. There were also certain irregularities in the stock market in the days preceding the attack... If you've been to New York since 9/11, you'll know that the site has since become another spot on the tourist map and - quite eerily I thought - was even reproduced at the New York, New York hotel in Las Vegas... yes, themed terrorism whatever next. Let's say that politically it didn't harm the government. Giuliani was unpopular till he became New York's hero post 9-11 and his endorsement of the Republican mayoral candidate shortly after swung the vote from Democrat to Republican in the city. I just believe 9/11 became a useful justification for US (and UK) involvement in Iraq (despite tenuous links between the act and Saddam Hussein) and we run the risk of allowing a similar paranoia to justify other wars in the name of "freedom" whilst conveniently ignoring other countries stockpiling weapons of mass destruction (eg Korea), countries less useful to annex. And if 13% of UK muslims believe 9/11 was self-perpetuated by the Americans, that says a lot about the feeble job UK government is doing convincing them otherwise...

[PeteC]

Remember the site itself had already been targeted. The "cost" to the US is also difficult to assess because if you take the site of the world trade centre itself, it's worth more now in real estate terms.

The cost to the US and about 20 other countries, including Thailand, was about 2,900 lives. Where the hell are you coming from? You almost mock 290,000,000 Americans with some of these words. Not only you but others with this branch of the thread. It's a free forum, continue if you feel so strongly about the issue. However, the gloves now come off if they must. Pete

[Jockey]

Look I'm no expert but it does seem very strange to me that the only passenger plane flying over American airspace on 9/12 was full of Osama Bin Laden's family and friends on the way back to Saudi - the country where most of the highjackers came from.

[pasathai]

[quote="Norseman"]I've asked this question before but I still find it valid:
Why is Europe a restricted area for the buddhist Thai-ladies, but wide open for extremist militants?
Both the US and Europe needs more nice people! (and better looking).


I mentioned in another thread I would guess the other groups have more representation in the governments than thais

[HansMartin]

Sorry Holly and Jockey, there is no GRAND CONSPIRACY. We were simple caught unaware and unprepared just as other country's before and after us have been.

Of course, the Bushies and neo-cons pushing their own agendas, have and continue to follow this up with opportunism, incompetency and arrogance.

[Jaime]

There is no conspiracy - shit happens but paranoia is pointless.
Israel is an unviable state without US military support.
The Islamists are fast-breeding dangerous nutters who are beyond re-education.

What is the answer?

Bring back The British Empire - there was none of this crap when we were running the joint. See - simple!