I would think Dawn's case would represent just a few percent of the actual people who do the monthly visa runs. There must be very very few people who could not somehow manage a 4 day trip back to UK (or Penang ??) to obtain a non-imm visa. Bet they'd manage it if there was a million pound lottery cheque waiting for them.
You are right about the 'O' visa catagories, but in reality London and Hull (don't know about the others) will issue non-imm 'O' multi-entries, without you even having to attend the consulate, for purposes of 'staying with friends', 'visiting fiance', 'studying Thai language and culture' etc etc.
Seems to me that this is the type of visa they are driving people towards, lot less hassle for the authorities here to administer. Whether they crack down on this remains to be seen.
I just laugh at all these people saying how the Thai authorities are now treating them unfairly, when they have bought the situation on themselves by taking the pee for so long.
Burger
The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006
Burger wrote:
But what I'm asking is how can any of us just turn up at a country, without getting any type of visa (VOA), and expect to stay there for months/years on end ?
Hi Burger,
I think the basic problem is that people are abusing the various visas by working, or carrying on business in Thailand. The 30 day tourist visa is just that, but there was no restriction on how often you took a holiday in Thailand as long as that was what you were doing.
If, for instance you were working in KL or Singapore, and you wished to spend every weekend in Thailand that was no problem. You might have 52 stamps a year in your passport, but you were still a tourist.
I myself, am sometimes through immigration more than ten times a year but I have no business in Thailand, so I’m a tourist. It seems that we are now to suffer due to other people not getting work permits.
But what I'm asking is how can any of us just turn up at a country, without getting any type of visa (VOA), and expect to stay there for months/years on end ?
Hi Burger,
I think the basic problem is that people are abusing the various visas by working, or carrying on business in Thailand. The 30 day tourist visa is just that, but there was no restriction on how often you took a holiday in Thailand as long as that was what you were doing.
If, for instance you were working in KL or Singapore, and you wished to spend every weekend in Thailand that was no problem. You might have 52 stamps a year in your passport, but you were still a tourist.
I myself, am sometimes through immigration more than ten times a year but I have no business in Thailand, so I’m a tourist. It seems that we are now to suffer due to other people not getting work permits.
Hi Steve G,
I think your point about the people working illegally hits the nail on the head, the government do mention this in their statement.
Also they probably did not have a problem with people who clearly work overseas and visit now and then, but the masses that go over for half an hour are just throwing it back in their faces IMO.
As you say, now the normal people will suffer.
Burger
I think your point about the people working illegally hits the nail on the head, the government do mention this in their statement.
Also they probably did not have a problem with people who clearly work overseas and visit now and then, but the masses that go over for half an hour are just throwing it back in their faces IMO.
As you say, now the normal people will suffer.
Burger
Can't agree with you, Burger. I've been living in HH for over 8 years and have done so on TVs, multiple-entry Non Os and too many 30 day runs to count. (The past 2 years have all been 30 day runs).
I've never worked here, simply brought over whatever money I need on a monthly basis from the UK.
One thing you assume is that visa runners, like myself, were doing something wrong. We weren't. It was all perfectly legal up until a few days ago. As Dawn has explained, there are a number of reasons why people like us did it this way. In my case, it was cost and laziness - but I wasn't transgressing any imm laws. Friends might have said that I was making life more difficult for myself and they were right, but that was up to me.
Tack onto this the fact that the multi-entry non O is virtually impossible to obtain now, for the first time, in neighbouring countries and that Embassies and consulates start asking questions after two back-to-back TVs and you just might start to understand why people like myself, not yet 50 for retirement, took the visa run route.
I'm married now and will get my multi entry non O whilst back in the UK. That'll keep me going for 15 mths or so, but quite what happens after that, I'm not sure. I'm never keen on bringing large sums of money over to Thailand - it's hardly keen financial sense - although it will probably be easy enough to open an account here and transfer 40-45k every month from the Uk and therefore qualify for a year's extension to the non O. This assumes Thailand dosn't step up a gear and start asking for stupid amounts to qualify for an extension based on supporting a Thai national.
I'm not directly having a go at you, but you do seem to fit unto the category of ex-pat (and there are plenty on other forums) who, because of their business/age/marriage status qualify for a "proper visa" and therefore look down on others who - quite legitimately - have been living quiet, law-abiding lives in Thailand and doing 30 day runs.
Fortunately, I can quite easily change my status and will do so, but there are plenty of decent folk out there who, because of financial constraints, will now find themselves in a real situation. They weren't working, so I feel it's them who have been discriminated against, not you "work permit carrying" hi-sos. (The last comment was a bit tongue in cheek).
As a final sign off, how can these visa runners have been "taking the pee" when what they were doing was legal and openly allowed?
I've never worked here, simply brought over whatever money I need on a monthly basis from the UK.
One thing you assume is that visa runners, like myself, were doing something wrong. We weren't. It was all perfectly legal up until a few days ago. As Dawn has explained, there are a number of reasons why people like us did it this way. In my case, it was cost and laziness - but I wasn't transgressing any imm laws. Friends might have said that I was making life more difficult for myself and they were right, but that was up to me.
Tack onto this the fact that the multi-entry non O is virtually impossible to obtain now, for the first time, in neighbouring countries and that Embassies and consulates start asking questions after two back-to-back TVs and you just might start to understand why people like myself, not yet 50 for retirement, took the visa run route.
I'm married now and will get my multi entry non O whilst back in the UK. That'll keep me going for 15 mths or so, but quite what happens after that, I'm not sure. I'm never keen on bringing large sums of money over to Thailand - it's hardly keen financial sense - although it will probably be easy enough to open an account here and transfer 40-45k every month from the Uk and therefore qualify for a year's extension to the non O. This assumes Thailand dosn't step up a gear and start asking for stupid amounts to qualify for an extension based on supporting a Thai national.
I'm not directly having a go at you, but you do seem to fit unto the category of ex-pat (and there are plenty on other forums) who, because of their business/age/marriage status qualify for a "proper visa" and therefore look down on others who - quite legitimately - have been living quiet, law-abiding lives in Thailand and doing 30 day runs.
Fortunately, I can quite easily change my status and will do so, but there are plenty of decent folk out there who, because of financial constraints, will now find themselves in a real situation. They weren't working, so I feel it's them who have been discriminated against, not you "work permit carrying" hi-sos. (The last comment was a bit tongue in cheek).
As a final sign off, how can these visa runners have been "taking the pee" when what they were doing was legal and openly allowed?
lomuamart wrote:
The government website says the following regarding VOA's: "when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for 30 days"
I assume you have been using it to live/settle/reside etc, instead of tourism. Not what it's meant for IMO
Agree it's easy for me to say because I have other visa options, I do not look down on people due to the short-cuts they take, I do it myself in plenty of other areas, but I am astonished at the arrogance of some farangs who try to blame others (Thai authorities etc) when they put a block on our dodges.
Can anyone give me a good reason why they couldn't have been bothered to go to UK and get a non-imm 'O' ?? Apart from caring for ill people and other such extreme case ??
Burger
I know people have been getting away with it, but now they have had enough and are putting a stop to it. Can't really blame them myself.Can't agree with you, Burger. I've been living in HH for over 8 years and have done so on TVs, multiple-entry Non Os and too many 30 day runs to count. (The past 2 years have all been 30 day runs).
The government website says the following regarding VOA's: "when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for 30 days"
I assume you have been using it to live/settle/reside etc, instead of tourism. Not what it's meant for IMO
The non-imm 'O' visa's are the easiest things in the world to obtain back in your home country. You just need to pay 90 pounds, post it off, and sit back and wait for it to drop through the door.Tack onto this the fact that the multi-entry non O is virtually impossible to obtain now, for the first time, in neighbouring countries and that Embassies and consulates start asking questions after two back-to-back TVs and you just might start to understand why people like myself, not yet 50 for retirement, took the visa run route.
Agree it's easy for me to say because I have other visa options, I do not look down on people due to the short-cuts they take, I do it myself in plenty of other areas, but I am astonished at the arrogance of some farangs who try to blame others (Thai authorities etc) when they put a block on our dodges.
Can anyone give me a good reason why they couldn't have been bothered to go to UK and get a non-imm 'O' ?? Apart from caring for ill people and other such extreme case ??
Burger
Last edited by Burger on Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
I believe they would think long and hard before doing that. If they raised the needed deposit too high, it would be tantamount to telling a legally married foreigner he cannot live with his wife here, and/or forcing the Thai wife to abandon her own country to live in the husbands home country or another alternative country. I don't think they're that stupid. However...???? Petelomuamart wrote:This assumes Thailand dosn't step up a gear and start asking for stupid amounts to qualify for an extension based on supporting a Thai national.
Burger, have you or anyone you know tried to do that simply by posting your passport and draft safely (Fedex etc.) from here in Thailand? That is an interesting thought if it would work, you could just stay here and wait for your visa to "arrive".Burger wrote:The non-imm 'O' visa's are the easiest things in the world to obtain back in your home country. You just need to pay 90 pounds, post it off, and sit back and wait for it to drop through the door.
Burger
PetePete wrote:
I'm too honest to try anything like that Pete
Burger
Heard of people using visa service companies in Penang doing it after they couldn't get one issued there.Burger, have you or anyone you know tried to do that simply by posting your passport and draft safely (Fedex etc.) from here in Thailand? That is an interesting thought if it would work, you could just stay here and wait for your visa to "arrive".Burger wrote:
The non-imm 'O' visa's are the easiest things in the world to obtain back in your home country. You just need to pay 90 pounds, post it off, and sit back and wait for it to drop through the door.
Burger
I'm too honest to try anything like that Pete
Burger
Being totally honest, for me this is what it's all about. They now have more foreigners wishing to stay here than they can shake a stick at, the new 'Spain' maybe ??Fortunately, I can quite easily change my status and will do so, but there are plenty of decent folk out there who, because of financial constraints, will now find themselves in a real situation.
Like all business people they will filter the one's they most desire, the one's with the most $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Why do you think the investment visa is being upped from 3M to 7M Baht ???????
Burger
All fair comments. My point was that the Thai authorities openly allowed it. (Shades of company formations to buy property and land?). Ranong, who got to know me well, often used to ask why I didn't go and get a Visa, particularly when they knew I was married. I said I would, one day. "Up to you. It would save you all the travelling".
Now they've changed this, I'm not complaining. It'll force this idle SOB into getting the correct visa.
I agree that the 30 day runs were not designed for long stayers/ex-pats, but it was a legitimate alternative and my purpose here has always been tourism. A non Imm O is also a "Tourist visa", it's just designed for longer stays.
Unless you've got a business/work here, are retired or on a "marriage extension", we're all tourists, however you cut it. Yup, you can get the multi-entry O from your home country. Great, makes a long visa run every 15 months, but if it's necessary, so be it.
I would still say that, unless you were working illegally, there was nothing wrong with 30 day runs, up to a few days ago. I do appreciate that these entry stamps were not designed for long stays, but they could be used to achieve this.
Pete,
Years ago, people did mail their passports abroad for visas. Highly illegal for your passport to cross a border without you. Also quite a few folk came unstuck with imm here as, despite the visa being in the passport, there were no entry or exit stamps from Thailand. A dead giveaway.
Now they've changed this, I'm not complaining. It'll force this idle SOB into getting the correct visa.
I agree that the 30 day runs were not designed for long stayers/ex-pats, but it was a legitimate alternative and my purpose here has always been tourism. A non Imm O is also a "Tourist visa", it's just designed for longer stays.
Unless you've got a business/work here, are retired or on a "marriage extension", we're all tourists, however you cut it. Yup, you can get the multi-entry O from your home country. Great, makes a long visa run every 15 months, but if it's necessary, so be it.
I would still say that, unless you were working illegally, there was nothing wrong with 30 day runs, up to a few days ago. I do appreciate that these entry stamps were not designed for long stays, but they could be used to achieve this.
Pete,
Years ago, people did mail their passports abroad for visas. Highly illegal for your passport to cross a border without you. Also quite a few folk came unstuck with imm here as, despite the visa being in the passport, there were no entry or exit stamps from Thailand. A dead giveaway.
-
Wanderlust
- Legend
- Posts: 2862
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
It wasn't getting away with it though - as far as I know, until now there had been no regulation in force saying that you couldn't make back to back to back etc 30 day VOAs. There had been lots of rumours that it was going to change, but nothing had been done. Therefore these people were doing nothing wrong, unless they were also working, which for a large number of westerners I doubt they were. As far as I know, there is no such thing as a settlement visa in Thailand - the best they offer is extensions to existing visas which require over the top financial means and tying up relatively large amounts of money in a Thai bank.Burger wrote:I know people have been getting away with it, but now they have had enough and are putting a stop to it. Can't really blame them myself.
The government website says the following regarding VOA's: "when entering Thailand for tourism purposes and will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for 30 days"
I assume you have been using it to live/settle/reside etc, instead of tourism. Not what it's meant for IMO
And that is exactly the misconseption I was pointing out in my previous post; the regulations state that you have to show evidence of a reason to want to get this visa, whether it is marriage, dependents, retirement etc. Although in the Uk it appears that Hull issues these visas willy-nilly without the need for this evidence, what happens when there is a clampdown on this regulation? Also, even if this wasn't the case, for someone living in Thailand, it's a whole lot more than 90 pounds; flight home, 500 pounds, somewhere to stay while it's done, lets say 5 days minimum at 20 pounds a day, plus food, and you are looking at over 700 pounds to get a visa that you used to be able to get in Malaysia or Laos, probably for less than 200 pounds in total. The extra money spent used to be spent in Thailand, and now it's not. Who are the fools?The non-imm 'O' visa's are the easiest things in the world to obtain back in your home country. You just need to pay 90 pounds, post it off, and sit back and wait for it to drop through the door.
Again, this was not a 'dodge' before, it was within the regulations previously in force, and more than that was not apparently even looked down upon by the immigration staff; they even seemed to look forward to regulars visits (I'm sure lomu and Dawn can confirm this) and there was never a hint that it was frowned upon. I think it is completely understandable to complain when the goalposts get moved, although that should be tempered with an 'it's their country' approach. Nevertheless this change will not only cause many people to reconsider their options and leave, but is worrying to all those who have made plans based on certain things and fear that this is the thin end of the wedge as far as visa regulations being changed goes. And what if they start tampering with the Work Permit regulations? It could happen...Agree it's easy for me to say because I have other visa options, I do not look down on people due to the short-cuts they take, I do it myself in plenty of other areas, but I am astonished at the arrogance of some farangs who try to blame others (Thai authorities etc) when they put a block on our dodges.
I just gave a very good financial reason for not wanting to have to go to the UK to get a visa, but here are a few more; not wanting to be in the UK at all in the first place; medical conditions that are being treated or are exacerbated by flying; not having the necessary qualifications to be able to apply for a non-immigrant visa by the book; children; fear of terrorist attack. And I am sure there are a whole load more. What you call extreme cases are probably more common than you think.Can anyone give me a good reason why they couldn't have been bothered to go to UK and get a non-imm 'O' ?? Apart from caring for ill people and other such extreme case ??
I agree that this is part of TRT thinking and I do not think they would even deny it. What I can't understand is why they think vast numbers of the seriously rich would want to come to live or invest in Thailand in the first place. Infrastructure and overall standards are just not good enough in my opinion. If I fell into that financial category there are plenty of other destinations worldwide that would be much higher up on my wish list.Burger wrote:Being totally honest, for me this is what it's all about. They now have more foreigners wishing to stay here than they can shake a stick at, the new 'Spain' maybe ??
Like all business people they will filter the one's they most desire, the one's with the most $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Why do you think the investment visa is being upped from 3M to 7M Baht ???????
Are those implementing these regulations arrogant, delusional or have I just got it wrong?
You don't have it wrong Jaime, you're spot on. Fearless leader announced today (again) he is seriously considering not running. He's sitting in the UK with a cold apparently, before he goes to Cuba for the non-aligned nations meeting. Non-aligned you ask??...LOL. Thailand has been aligned with the USA since after WWII, it's just not on paper anywhere I guess. He did state that if he doesn't run, "someone from the TRT will take over the next government..." Very optimistic but probably correct unfortunately. If they made it mandatory to have at least an 8th grade education to vote, TRT would lose by millions of votes.
That's a real danger here now IMHO. Lines are being drawn between the educated and non-educated. Rich and poor, with the latter in both areas devoted to TRT. Could turn out to be very volatile as the next few months go by. Pete
That's a real danger here now IMHO. Lines are being drawn between the educated and non-educated. Rich and poor, with the latter in both areas devoted to TRT. Could turn out to be very volatile as the next few months go by. Pete
Wanderlust wrote:
medical conditions and certain other extreme conditions permit you to receive extensions of stay anyways.
Burger
To me it's obvious that the permission to stay for upto 30 days for purposes of tourism, is quite different to nipping over the border for half an hour and living here for 10 years etc. Also the regulations state that if you wish to stay longer than the 30 days you should apply for an extension of stay, doesn't mention leaving the country for half hour at a time.It wasn't getting away with it though - as far as I know, until now there had been no regulation in force saying that you couldn't make back to back to back etc 30 day VOAs.
Again, this was not a 'dodge' before, it was within the regulations previously in force
Yes our responsibilities in life cost us money. Countries we want to emigrate to, houses we live in, children we bring up, cars we run. Tough life ain't it.Also, even if this wasn't the case, for someone living in Thailand, it's a whole lot more than 90 pounds; flight home, 500 pounds, somewhere to stay while it's done
As I said before, I think this is what they want some people to do.Nevertheless this change will not only cause many people to reconsider their options and leave
Is this serious ? Can i present my car finance company wit h a very good financial reason why I can't pay next months finance installment ?I just gave a very good financial reason for not wanting to have to go to the UK to get a visa, but here are a few more; not wanting to be in the UK at all in the first place, fear of terrorist attack
medical conditions and certain other extreme conditions permit you to receive extensions of stay anyways.
Burger