Visa for my G/F

[matthew80]

I am trying to navigate my way through the mountain of red tape and documents needed to secure a Canadian Permanent Resident Visa for my Thai girlfriend (and someday: wife). They will not grant her a tourist visa because she is "poor" - but that's another story...
Anyway, I know there are a lot of agencies in Thailand that promise near-certain visas for thais to travel abroad - at a price of course. My question to the learned ex-pats is this: "Have you any knowledge of the legitimacy of these agencies, their success rate, and should these agencies be an avenue I should look into?" Any advice would be greatly appreaciated, as I feel overwhelmed by the process. Thanks so much!

[Big Boy]

matthew,

I have successfully dabbled in obtaining visas on numerous occassions without fail, and I will try to answer your questions.

However, before you read what I say, you must realise that I do not meet your criteria ie:

1. I am not an ex-pat.
2. My experience is gained through obtaining visas for the UK, not Canada.
3. I have no personal experience of these agencies, but know several people who have, and have shared their experiences with me.

Your first point about not being granted a tourist visa because she is poor. The majority of Thai girls looking for a visa fall in to this bracket. On each occassion that I've applied for tourist visas I've been very open in my letter of sponsorship stating that they have no available funds for the visit. I have said that I will be entirely funding the visit myself. I have opened a seperate bank account named 'XXX holiday fund', and have deposited sufficient funds to cover the holiday. As part of my evidence I have submitted bank statements showing this account/funding. I have had 5 successes using this method.

Now for the agencies - my normal advice to friends is don't waste your money using these people - I can do exactly the same for them, and I won't cost them anything. These agencies are just facilitators who ensure that all of your paperwork is in order before you present it to the embassy. It will still be you who has to do the running around to obtain the necessary paperwork, but they do offer the security of knowing that when you make your submission, at least you will know that your papers are in order. From what I've been told, they often prolong the exercise by thinking of additional bits of information (that the embassy rarely want) - by prolonging the exercise, they push up their costs. They do have a fairly high success rate (I have a 100% success rate without using them), but they do fail on occassion. If they fail, they cost you more money getting it right the 2nd or subsequent time.

Good luck in your quest.

[lomuamart]

I think that generally agencies are not worth it as BB has said. There are reputable ones though, but they might take some finding.
When my wife applied for a Tourist visa last month to the UK, we were bushwacked by an agent as we walked into the visa centre. A very nice Thai man in their offices right next door to the application place informed us that there was very little chance that my wife would get the TV - a Settlement visa was much easier. Well, I pointed out that we didn't want to settle in the UK, so he was fundamentally misdirecting us. Her TV was granted 3 days later.
It was also funny when we went to collect the passport - you don't know if the visa's granted at that stage - and there were 3-4 Thai women standing around watching us open the passport up. When they realised that we had been successful, I thought they'd invited us into their offices to buy a Heinekin. I'd misheard - they were trying to sell us a return flight to the UK. I'm amazed these people are allowed to operate right next to the visa centre. Their information is rubbish and they actively seem to play on applicants' insecurities.
That's my experience of agents. Don't know about the Canadian process, but if it's anything similar to the UK's, it all looks a bit daunting at first, but actually isn't that difficult to do yourself.

[Big Boy]

matthew,

I have to agree with everything that lomuamart says.

I see that in your OP you state Any advice would be greatly appreaciated, as I feel overwhelmed by the process. I can assure you that you are not alone. Many, many years ago I was in exactly the same situation as you - didn't know where to turn.

My first move was to visit my solicitor. He was very honest, and told me that he could sort things for me, but it would cost me a lot of money. Even then, he said I would have to do most of the work. He then went to the local Yellow Pages and pointed out the local Immigration Office in Stockton-on-Tees. He said phone them up, make an appointment, and explain your dilema - it won't cost you a penny, and you will be speaking to experts.

Well, I did as he suggested and received very sound advice during my meeting which went on for over 1 hour. They answered all my questions, told me everything that I needed to do, and even gave me a few contact addresses. The rest is history.

The point of this posting is if you don't know where to turn to, you must have a similar set up in Canada. Why not do as my Solicitor advised all of those years ago - phone up and make an appointment to speak to the experts? If you still feel overwhelmed after speaking to those who really know, then by all means, use one these agencies - but be prepared to pay dearly with no guarantee of results.

[richard]

I know many who have had problems and refusals to take their girl to the UK for a visit.

I sailed through in 30 minutes but I'd done some homework on how to ease it through.

We did the following:

1) Money in her bank account
2) Proof of her ownership of land or property
3) Copy of her family documents that show Father, Mother and children
4) Passport
5) My passport
6) Letter from a uk relative assuring accomodation and confirmation that they would ensure her return
7) Applied for a short term visa for 3 months
Proof, confirmed by my landlady in Thai, that we had known each other for longer than 2 years

We turned up , took one look at my passport and checked the database, They then told me to go away. Interviewd my girl for 5 minutes and then called me to the cashier who after payment delivered her passport with a visa stamped in there.

Our biggest hassle was a Heathrow airport where we both got the third degree from a snottie young customs girl. How long have you known each other?, where are you going to live? I was asked 'do you speak Thai?' She was asked' do you speak English?' After both admitting that we only spoke a little of each others language, the retort was 'well how do you communicate?'. At that point I had to refrain myself from the obvious answer!!!

After being cleared I stated 'All this was cleared by embassy staff in BK' The reply was 'so what' . I refrained from using my middle finger for once!!!

[lomuamart]

Good points from Richard (although applications aren't made at The Embassy any more, so you have to wait 3-5 days for some sort of decision).
I can't see that the Canadian authorities will be too different from the UK. What ECO's are normally interested in is
a) Can the applicant support themselves whilst visiting, without needing to plead for public funds. So, proof of her bank savings and property is needed. If you're sponsoring her, then details of your financial standing is needed.
b) Will the applicant return to Thailand? This tends to be the more difficult point to satisfy. If the applicant has a job, then proof of that and that the job's there on their return is important. If not, then quite often a statement along the lines of "we don't want to jepordise any future applications for a visit or settlement" can help.
As has also been pointed out by others, accommodation is important as is proof of how long you've known each other - so e-mails, telephone records, photos, evidence of your visits to Thailand etc etc.
However, with the UK Embassy at least, the two points raised above are the key ones.
Good luck.

[richard]

Lomuamart

Who is George Best?

Darren Clarke is now the hero!!!!

My experiences go back about 3 years and know the embassy have farmed out a lot of the work so whow knows!!!!

I think the same applies even through an agency

Correct me if I'm wrong

Can't see me or my girl returning to the UK though, unless I'm forced to!!

Too cold, expensive etc

hope to meet you at JW's for the official opening

JW please note perhaps we should all wear a nickname badge to identify our HHAD ID

Comments?

[Big Boy]

matthew,

With respect to the other posters who are trying to offer you sound advice, you are in danger of falling in to the same trap as many others before you. You are in danger of receiving mixed messages, all of which may be right, wrong, or somewhere in between.

Richard listed 8 things to present to the Embassy.
lomuamart could probably list 8 things that he and his girlfriend have recently presented to the Embassy.
I too, could list 8 things that I presented to the Embassy.

Each of us would believe that we are offering sound advice, but we'd probably all differ in what we presented as our list of 8. I can't emphasise this enough. As a Civil Servant, I know that the guys at the Embassy are working to a book of regulations. If you can't access that book of regulations, you need to speak to an expert that can. Only he/she will be able to provide you with a definitive list of requirements.

It is unlikely that one of the agencies you are considering will have access to the precise requirements - I would guess that they would work on experience of previous submissions.

[matthew80]

A Big Thank you to Everyone! When i first applied for a Canadian Tourist Visa, I told them up front that my lady was poor, sold food in a market, had two kids and a widowed father that she was taking care of. I told them that I would pay for plane tickets, accomodation, and CONTINUE to put money into her bank account. I assured them - ten ways from Friday - that I could provide whatever supporting documentation they would like in order to feel confident that she would return to Thailand after her holiday. I further informed them that it was my intention to marry this woman, and bring her to canada on a Permanent Residence Visa. But first, I said, I would like her to come to canada for a "holiday" to meet my parents, my friends, see where I lived and worked (High North: Yukon Territory) in order to determine whether she could actually thrive in my cold climate. I think this was a logical plan. She was turned down in spite of my financial support. She was Poor. Didn't matter that she had ME - and all supporting documentation. End of story. Flash forward to one year later, last July, and I am in Thailand. I call the Canadian embassy and havea conversation with a fairly decent guy. I tell him of my intentions to reapply for a "tourist visit", as it had been a year since last application. I asked to him tell me specifically what I could do to prove that my lady was no threat to the Canadian economy, and that all I wanted to do was bring her on a holiday to my country, so that she could have a wonderful experience and some foreknowledge of what to expect. He asked me if her "status had changed"? i responded that she was still "poor" if that was what he meant. He then told me not to waste my time going for a tourist visa. Wasn't going to happen. "If you want to prove to us that your intentions are sincere, " he said, "apply for a permanent residence visa. That tells us that you are ready to support her for three years." I will do this certainly, but it just seems to me rather sad that I can't bring her to Canada for a simple holiday first. I guess there's a good rationale for this policy. But I have to say I'm just a little disappointed. Itwould have been great to bring her to canada in nice easy, non-stressful stages. Perhaps i should just retire to HuaHin! Thanks again everyone!

[Big Boy]

matthew,

I think this was a logical plan.

I think you now know that logical is not a factor when dealing with bureaucracy.

Flash forward to one year later, last July, and I am in Thailand. I call the Canadian embassy and havea conversation with a fairly decent guy. I tell him of my intentions to reapply for a "tourist visit", as it had been a year since last application.

Excellent move - you've saved yourself time and money by discussing the problem directly with them in the first instance. Just a shame they didn't really listen to you.

I feel overwhelmed by the process.

You don't sound as if you're overwhelmed - you're doing fine. Reading your last posting, I don't see any advantage for you at all in using one of those agencies - they can not make your girlfriend rich overnight.

It is unfortunate, but these immigration officers are little tin gods - if they decide on a way of action, it is not easy to make them shift. The biggest problem is that they are not consistent in their decisions. However, they also support each other, so it is on your girlfriend's file that she has been refused because she is poor etc. Unless you can bring in some outside influences (Members of Parliament usually do the trick in the UK) to prove to their bosses that their decision is flawed, you have virtually no chance of changing their decision.

It looks as if a settlement visa is going to be your best route. From what you've written, you are more than capable of handling the Embassy bureaucracy without employing a Thai Embassy to do it for you.

[PeteC]

Hell, fly into Mexico city and just drive to Canada. Thousands of Mexicans do it daily (at least as far as the western USA) with no ID whatsoever. If she doesn't like Canada, leave by the same route. If she does like it, just stay and file for a visa there, tell them she's already here. . Just a happy hour joke. Pete

[Jaime]

My story was very similar to Matthew's. Some years ago now we were told by the British Embassy to apply for a settlement visa after a failed tourist visa application. What was frustrating about it at the time was that we had been asked to provide information for the tourist visa designed to prove that we had known each other for a reasonable length of time, which the Embassy then used to decide that our genuine relationship would mean that my g/f (now wife) would be unlikely to return to Thailand if granted a tourist visa! Damned if you do, damned if you don't! Like Matthew it saddened me that we could not simply try for a tourist visa and it made the whole thing seem like a revenue racket since the settlement visa was ten times the cost of the tourist visa. At the time I tried to take the moral high ground by saying how I was a professional person who could not afford to let my g/f go awol (as they had suggested she might) in the UK. Their response was a shake of the head, a roll of the eyes and the deadpan comment "it happens." In that case why did they even take the fee off us in the first place?

I am philosophical about the whole thing these days and glad that I don't have to go through it again.

[PeteC]

The real key for a Thai female in getting a tourist visa to the USA are: 1) She is a property owner. 2) She has a legitimate job. 3) She dresses nicely and not in hot pants and halter top when interviewing. 4) Her level of Thai grammer usage is above street level. I've found that #1 far outweighs all the others. Their thinking is that she will not abandon her property and surely come back? Of course, I guess she could sell it on E-Bay once there also? Pete

[Jaime]

The real key for a Thai female in getting a tourist visa to the USA are: 1) She is a property owner. 2) She has a legitimate job. 3) She dresses nicely and not in hot pants and halter top when interviewing. 4) Her level of Thai grammer usage is above street level. I've found that #1 far outweighs all the others. Their thinking is that she will not abandon her property and surely come back? Of course, I guess she could sell it on E-Bay once there also? Pete

Hey I've got it! Buy a house in the g/f's name and that way you save about 250 quid on the visa fee!