Thai coup leader admits little proof of Thaksin corruption

[STEVE G]

What could be happening is that a deal is struck whereby he returns to Thailand, but not in any political sense. As in many Asian countries, money can buy you amnesty from anything if you have sufficient quantities of it.
Also deciding when something is corruption depends alot on your standpoint. If you change the rules to enrich your family you have not broken the rules; it may be hugely immoral, but not strictly speaking illegal.
These are the ways of politics in these regions.

[Hublet]

Sargeant you are quite correct - yes both parties were buying votes and I too believe that this does not make it right.

I only said the lack of found evidence is worrying because the coup was based on that precise premise and not for any other reason. Whether Mr T did do anything wrong, or not it, needs to be proven and without proof then the coup does not have the legal legs to stand upon. Without opening a can of worms doesn't this seem to smack of the same illinformed or non-proven information that began the events that are facing Iraq????

Anyway guilty, or not, shouldn't Mr T have the right to return to his own country? I'm sure I don't know what I would do if my country wouldn't let me back in.

[sargeant]

What to me is worrying is the number of falangs getting involved in this totally thai problem.

I have my views of mr t before and after the demos and strikes. I also have my views on the (opposition) and the ways the demos and strikes were brought about none of which i am going to publish.

Having been falsely accused in the past i am particularly tetchy about anyone accusing anyone else falsely and without evidence and that is what i am posting about.
Too many falangs are making these accusations all i am saying is it is wrong to do so without proof and to continue even after the coup leader says there is none (so far) smacks of political interference.

I am also a great believer that foreigners should have no say in another countries politics. In my lifetime as a soldier i have been too many places buggered up by other countries interfering in another countries politics and culture (as you mention iraq ill throw in Palestine and we can agree)

As for mr ts return that is for the thais to decide and only the thais.

[Hublet]

With regards to your last post Sergeant I have to say you are spot on and I agree one hundred percent.

I did not mean to get you angry and I was merely pointing out that it will be interesting to watch the outcomes. No one has the right (I believe) to meddle in the affairs of another country.

And as you say as 'a guest in another country' those who dont like it, or the laws, can always leave.

[sargeant]

Thanks hublet sorry if you thought i was angry i wasnt still new to this cyber thingy

I am not angry just disapointed that certain posters who post many many good sensible posts are so of beam on this subject. None of them know any more than any one else does on this subject and should therefore take a breather stand back and let the thais do their thing and not try and influence it.

Another point if falangs are seen to be interfering in thai politics things could go pear shaped keep powder dry and you wont get egg on your face always back a politicion each way especially in thailand

[buksida]

What to me is worrying is the number of falangs getting involved in this totally thai problem.

May have something to do with the fact that many of them have spent a large portion of their lives (33% in my case) in this country and have been directly affected by policies of this xenophobic government. For example the latest visa clampdowns forcing the separation of husband from wife or father from child simply because they don't fall into the "Elite" category of tourist that Thaksin's government was blindly striving for.

Why can't they voice an opinion on something that affects them on such a fundamental level? Foreigner or not everyone is entitled to that. On a country wide level I agree with you, just look how many countries the good old US of A have royally screwed up.

[lomuamart]

However helpful, informative etc etc this board is, I don't think that Admin, us mods or the members ever fool ourselves into thinking that we're influencing Thai politics. Foreign governments have a hard enough time doing that, let alone a rag-tag bunch of ex-pats and overseas members who are interested in this town and the country (sorry everyone. Hopefully, you know what I mean).
As Buksida said, all we're doing is passing comment on news events that do actually have a bearing on our and our family's lives.
What's wrong with that? Or should be all be sheep - and silent ones at that?

[PeteC]

I saw those replies coming from over here BK and Lomu...LOL. Loosen up a bit Sarge. I'm not retired military but know many who are that still walk the line. It's hard to change their thinking after 20-30 years in service. What were you in and what country are you from ? Pete

[DawnHRD]

What to me is worrying is the number of falangs getting involved in this totally thai problem.

May have something to do with the fact that many of them have spent a large portion of their lives (33% in my case) in this country and have been directly affected by policies of this xenophobic government. For example the latest visa clampdowns forcing the separation of husband from wife or father from child simply because they don't fall into the "Elite" category of tourist that Thaksin's government was blindly striving for.

Why can't they voice an opinion on something that affects them on such a fundamental level? Foreigner or not everyone is entitled to that. On a country wide level I agree with you, just look how many countries the good old US of A have royally screwed up.

You could have been speaking for me, Buksida. I agree 100% with your response. I, too, face possibly being separated from my "little boy", because of possible "elitist" policies the TRT govt, under Mr T, have instituted as far as visas etc go. Of course we have no vote, we are not Thai citizens, we are - as Sargent's signature suggests "guests of Thailand" and it is a country many of us love & wish to make our hompermanently. But, because we have no vote, are we supposed to give up our right to an opinion? I have opinions about the policies of many countries in the world. I can't influence what they do & may not want to, but I'm entitled to think about these things. And, yes, I also agree that many countries have interfered too much with others. But, as Lomu said, we're not interfering, we don't have a vote or a voice in this matter & that's fine, but I think we're all entitled to our opinions, whether we agree with each other or not.

[Wanderlust]

correct me if i am wrong to date no nil zero buggerall charges have been laid against mr t (lots of accusations and lots of investigation but no charges)
again correct me if i am wrong the election commission is sacked is no more dont exist
Do I think mr t is guilty of any or all of the accusations??? I will keep my personal views silent and leave it in the capable hands of the thai people who will i am sure deal with it appropriately as to THEIR culture

I am after all a only guest in their country

Judging by this post mimicing mine, I would guess i am the one who has pulled sargeant's chain so hard, but if you re-read my post sargeant, I was not stating what I personally felt but asking if what I had been told and read about was correct; you are correct that the previous election commission was sacked because of their failure to deal with the shenanigans of both parties, but the one appointed afterwards did indeed point the figure at Thaksin and TRT, as well as scolding the opposition. This, unless I am misinformed, is FACT not opinion. I did then give an opinion as to what might happen based on my observations of what has been reported so far. As buksida and others have stated, I am not trying to tell the Thais what to do, and would never even consider it (unless they asked me!), but I will defend my right to express my opinion, particularly on a forum which is designed for just that!
sargeant, the way you put it, I shouldn't ever make a comment on anything political in another country even if it directly affects me, because I am only a guest in their country - give me a break!

[sargeant]

Opinions based on fact i have no problem with i.e visas

But opinions based on purely accusations is a totally different kettle of fish

Being angry at the visa policies (which i fully understand) and then accusing someone without proof on a totally different issue is not on.

The visa issue is only being raised now had the visas been the issue i wouldnt have posted but if anyone wants to look at the title of this thread and then read later posts still accusing embezzlement and my posts you will see it is the accusations without proof i take to issue and i would do the same for anyone no matter what my personal views of them are and that includes mr t mrs t miss t chaufer and mr ts dog

My military background has nothing to do with it its the experience i suffered when false accusations were made about me

I have made my views clear on visas i am very worried on good people becoming collateral damage it is unfair but i also want the falangs breaking the laws of this country gone as well.

Passing views is fine accusing (libeling ) isnt

I am a very very very firm believer of the presumtion of innocence i wonder if that rings a distant bell somewhere

[buksida]

Opinions are based on personal feelings and experiences, and are usually backed up by fact though not always. All the majority of westerners have in Thailand is the media to base their assumptions on. The visa issue which I bought up was an example used to answer your questions as to why foriegners take an opinion on Thai politics.

It would be ignorant of anyone living in a foreign country not to have an opinion or take an interest in what is going on around them.

As for the Thais, they seem largely indifferent to politics unless they are directly affected and even then they rarely voice opinion or take action.

What you have a problem with is merely your own values and opinion, you are entitled to them as much as the rest or us are about anything else. Its called freedom of speech, not an entirely new concept.

[Norseman]

Sargeant.
Are you living with a thai or farang wife?
Do you get any "insider" info at all?
If you listen to what the Thais have to tell you, then you'll understand that all of these postings are based upon facts and not only farang rumours.
Did you know that Mr Toxins party, Thai Rak Thai, changed the laws in this country so that it would benefit TRT most?
Did you know that TRT changed the law so that EVERYBODY was able to see and observe what political party you voted for?
(They turned the voting compartments 180 degrees).
Have you ever talked to somebody living in Isaan, who received between 200 and 400 Baht to give TRT their vote?
Do you really think TRT will give you a receipt?
Mr. Toxin bought his votes on behalf of TRT.
No doubt about it.
But to proof it?
Obviously a very difficult case.

[PeteC]

My thoughts almost exactly, Norseman. All one has had to do here for the past several years was look, listen and read. The people who initiated the coup, The King and Privy Council head General Prem are not going to do something like they did unless the facts are there.

If all of it will ever come out is yet to be seen. If deals are made, it may not. For who's benefit? Maybe the country as a whole or, letting some individuals off the hook.

Previous governments have been just as corrupt and money made by most. It's no secret. They just didn't throw it into the face of the entire nation as Thaksin and his lot did. He thought he was immune, and he thought he was equal to HRM. Thaksin un-did himself.

One can't let a bad personal experience limit his vision to what is going on around him. Pete

[Guess]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the election commission/enquiry find both Thaksin and TRT guilty of rigging the last (re)vote? That in itself is good enough reason to (a) prevent Thaksin's return to this country, or (b) if he does to prosecute him. I would like to bet that once Thaksin reneges on a deal with a high up supporter (which he inevitably will do at some point), that person will speak out and the whole house of cards will tumble around his ears. I also believe Thaksin could be charged with manslaughter or even murder after his botched drug policy - he didn't pull the trigger but he may just as well have done on those thousands that died.
I also suspect this story is a smokescreen, and they are trying to tempt him back.

Well said Wanderlust and then there is the case of the Hat Yai bombing to add.

Sargeant I think you will have to explain more clearly what you mean. What guy mad what statement about what that I believed. I have never believed anything that Taksin has said. Please elaborate.

Anyway as for charges and proof of corruption are concerned, may I remind you that Al Capone was never charged either. Perhaps the authorities should have let him back into society and return to hi position of power.

Let's flag down a cab and head for real street here.