servicemen

[sargeant]

Certain posters seem to think that military people are stupid, dumb and there to be insulted and ridiculed because they have a different perspective on life.
No dispute from me a 22 year army man. Yes I do have a different view from civilians. But I do know why.
Most of the pea brains the bigots and the just plain stupid use the discipline of military people as a sign of having no independent thought so let me enlighten you. The soldiers with no discipline are always the first to stop breathing, cease to be alive, dead, mincemeat, body bag kit If you want any more examples pm me.
Military people are full of independent thoughts cram full of them but their thought processes are tempered by the sounds of 109mm howitzer and 3inch mortar shells incoming, the splat of 9mm and 7.62 rounds hitting the wall a few inches behind them the sound I cant describe even though I have heard it, of a round hitting a good vibrant human being in the cheek and turning him into a cabbage forever.
I will explain a gunshot, an artillery shell all sound great if its you firing it or its fired at some poor sod over there, you know the stuff you base your civilian judgments on the sounds on TV and cinema but it’s a totally different friggin ball game when its fired at YOU up front and extremely personal that’s when you realize what arse pucker means its when you find out your bladder aint as strong as you thought.
Soldiers all through their careers get closer to death and more often than you can imagine, they see the results of civilian politicians not in homogenized news and TV photos they see every gory detail, and they smell it as well, they have nightmares of those scenes and smells and generally speaking they develop an extreme or weird sense of humor to mask the reality of war.
It’s those things that they think about when they are thinking not consciously but its there in spades. Hardly surprising therefore they have a different approach to issues. They are trained to take care, cover and protect their comrades, trained by others but mostly by experience at the sharp end. And trust me no soldier who has seen it once asks to go and start another one. The responsibility of NCOs for those lives under their command mostly at a very young age stays with them all their lives.

And they do all this so civilians can use the free speech they spill their blood, intestines, body parts and brain tissue for, even for those who gladly use that freedom to ridicule and insult them

I believe all civilian politicians should be put through a course where soldiers shoot at them if they survive and end up PM or president they would think 200 times before they took up arms or started a war.

This isn’t for my benefit I am too old, too thick skinned and I have already survived 44 years of it,
This post is for the insults and ridicule being heaped on the people who right now and in the future will continue to give you those freedoms and be thankful you haven’t had to have those experiences. Remember it is always civilians that make all wars.

THINK ABOUT IT FOR A WHILE and then show some respect.

[Big Boy]

And your point is?

I've worked alongside servicemen all of my life. Admittedly, I don't have to face hostile fire, but neither do I reap the high rewards of the servicemen. Only this weekend, one of my Flt Lt's is taking his wife to New York for the weekend to see some group play live. He's dumped his daughter in her boarding school etc. I wish I could afford such luxuries.

Several weeks ago, I was standing in for a Wing Commander - my wage was less than half of that being paid to a Wing Commander. Yet I was still responsible for managing Majors, Squadron Leaders and Lt Cdrs. I didn't complain, the servicemen take the Queen's shilling (and what a massive shilling that is), and take the consequences - it's what they're paid to do.

I work alongside Majors, Squadron Leaders and Lt Cdrs - the same pay disparity is also there. These guys are certainly not stupid or dumb - they know exactly what they're doing.

Additional perks are the 'built in' sporting activities. At least one afternoon per week enjoying their favourite sport. Gym facilities etc. Also highly subsidised housing.

I am afraid that I'm not easily impressed when servicemen whinge on about the terrible risks they take. They don't complain about the huge benefits of the job.

I apologise now if my views are too controversial, but I live, and readily accept this disparity every day of my life - I accept it because I know that occasionally these guys have to put themselves in the line of fire, However, I have no sympathy.

[red dwarf]

Join the army travel to far off distant lands, meet many different and interesting people and kill them

[sargeant]

BB my point is we are different us soldiers not stupid

As to officers pay and perks what about the one where a captain retires as a major and a Lt retires as a captain i agree with you
I retired as a staff sgt acting ssm but no extra pension for umwah s/sgt was what i got (lowere ranks dont get that perk)

mainly i am talking about the lower ranks
lower ranks pay dont buy yachts thats for sure and its them that get upclose and personal its them that pick their mates body parts of the ground.And all i am requesting is please try to see why they are different

i will say this website is in fact very good and what has been said is very mild but as i say it isnt about me i have looked around the net and its unbelievable to me what some say i just wonder how many squaddies read it
Sympathy was not on the radar i was just trying to explain why they think differently
dont worry about being controversial without it this website would be a real drag
go round the world suffer 1 year of absolute boredom and 5 minutes of shear terror its the 5 mins that makes us come from mars

old soldiers never die they only smell that way

thanks for your post

[Big Boy]

sargeant wrote:

BB my point is we are different us soldiers not stupid

I'd agree with that. I started my career at the bottom working alongside the junior ranks (even had a spell on loan to the Iranian Navy), and have worked my way up.

The service mentality is completely different to the average Joe public. I've always put it down to the close (almost family-like) relationship that is forced upon them, rather than having to face the odd bullet. These guys are often forced in to different situations, and have to use their initiative to work it out for themselves. On occasion their innovation is amazing.

However, I think you have to admit, even at the lower ranks, the Queen's shilling has quite a good exchange rate.

[STEVE G]

Big Boy wrote:
I didn't complain, the servicemen take the Queen's shilling (and what a massive shilling that is)

Hi Big Boy, things must have changed, I worked flight decks in the navy some twenty years ago, and got paid a pittance for working over an 80 week, often in very bad weather in the Faeroes Gap or Arctic Ocean, and with a very high accident rate.
It was an experience, but you would never have done it for the money, at the time you could get three times as much doing the same thing in the Oil industry.

[Big Boy]

STEVE G wrote:

I worked flight decks in the navy some twenty years ago, and got paid a pittance for working over an 80 week, often in very bad weather in the Faeroes Gap or Arctic Ocean, and with a very high accident rate.

OK, that was one tour during your service, some have bullets shot at them, others get a bit tired and cold. How much football, rugby & cricket did you play after that tour?

[lomuamart]

I remember when The Falklands kicked off. There was a group of us, all about 22ish. Fresh out of university, starting our careers in whatever and all together again discussing the prospect of being called up.
That was a real possibility then, at our age.
It was amazing how the debate polarised between us. Yes and no. Simple as that. No middle ground and it all got a bit heated.
I'll admit that I couldn't understand the pro-conscription lobby. I'd have rather gone to prison than had to shoot at someone. The army are professionals. That's what they're there for. It's not my fight.
However, I do remember saying that if my country was threatened, I might well think about defending it. (Please don't reply with polemic - my country and way of life wasn't threatened, therefore I didn't have to fight. I've never been able to understand the vitriol handed out by Maggie Thatcher and her cronies to justify that). And I knew people who were killed, or had their lives messed up forever because of that conflict.
I served in the CCF at school. It was compulsory. Big deal, some servicemen may say, but I learned how to clean and fire a rifle - with live ammo. Fortunately, I was never shot at though. I also had the life scared out of me by the hard bastards at HMS Ganges. I suppose that was the point for all us schoolboys - discipline. However, I never saw the point.
I'm not having a go at servicemen of any rank. It just wasn't for me. I remember seeing an episode of MASH where the chaplin is talking to a dying soldier in the unit. The chaplin says to him that he shouldn't worry too much. He's dying for his country. "You don't understand, Father. The thing that scared me was trying to kill someone else".
That said it all for me.
Mind you, I'm an old hippy and you can't teach an old dogs new tricks.
Just my view. Sorry it's been a long one.

[DawnHRD]

I've never been in the services, but I was a "Navy Brat" - my Dad was in the Navy from before I was born until I was in my early teens. He was lucky, he came out just before the Falklands. We did, however, have family friends that died in that conflict, including one who was locked into the flooding engine room of the Coventry as she went down. Standard operating procedures to save others, but still horrific!
Then I married my husband (also Navy) at age 22 & was a Navy Wife. Again, no conflicts, although he did have to patrol the Baltic during the Yugoslavian conflicts. I spent 11 months of my first year of marriage alone. But "them's the breaks". You join the services (or marry into them) & you have to accept that.
From my experiences, I can see both points of view. Neither my father or my husband were officers - they were both PO's when they left the Navy & they were lucky enough to miss direct conflict. But they both did OK out of the services; financially they were never rich but they didn't have to worry where the next meal would come from & socially & facility (sports etc) wise, they did better than most in civvy street.
Yes, Sarge, servicemen are a different breed, but I've never felt them to be particularly maligned. I've never heard anyone put servicemen down (apart from jealous guys that can't get a girlfriend in a "squaddy" town - used to live near a big training barracks during my teenage years & dated a few squaddies, too!!) I feel the services can be a very good & fairly safe career (Job security wise) and many have a whole career without seeing action but "war is hell" and when servicemen are called to fulfill their end of the bargain, they do so with a discipline, loyalty & commitment few of the rest of us can understand.

[PJG]

Big Boy,

I spent 6 years as a short service officer in the RAF. Maybe things have changed since the 1970's but I do not remember getting paid vast amount of money as you suggest. In fact I was earing more working as a labourer on a building site befor I joined.

I still am in contact with many service personnel and think that your view of their pay and conditions is somewhat blinkered. Sounds to me as if you have some other issues that are winding you up.

[Big Boy]

I am not saying it is the best paid job in the world, but like Dawn said, financially they were never rich but they didn't have to worry where the next meal would come from & socially & facility (sports etc) wise, they did better than most in civvy street.

STEVE G wrote:

often in very bad weather in the Faeroes Gap or Arctic Ocean

These days you would find yourself lucky if the ship could afford enough fuel for a trip around the bay. Oh how wonderful it must have been in the days of sail when fuel was natural and free.

lomuamart wrote:

The army are professionals. That's what they're there for.

My point precisely - they have a really good time most of the time, and I for one have no objection to that because I know that they are there when they are needed.

PJG wrote:

Sounds to me as if you have some other issues that are winding you up.

Not really, if you go back to the earlier posts, I thought Sargeant was looking for sympathy because he and his mates came under fire occasionally - something that we sorted out - quite amicably I thought. I actually thought I was being quite complimentary to servicemen.

[Guess]

I am surprised that no-one has picked this up yet but the entire topic is non PC and sexist.

Surely it should be servicepersons. The term servicemen is sexist.

Living in Hua Hin you should be very aware of what the service ladies do for the country and they should not be ignored.

They too (apparently) are capable of independent thought.

They would not know the difference between a 109mm howitzer and 3inch mortar shells incoming, the splat of 9mm and 7.62 or a Chinese Fire Cracker and like their male counterparts would not know that they would be comparing two completelely different measurement systems, i.e. metric and Imperial. Who cares anyway they don't need to know.

These ladies know very well what it is like to be face to face with enemy. Many can tell stories of how they have overwhelmned a 250 pound German in the line of duty.

The thought of a round hitting a good vibrant human being in the cheek and turning him into a cabbage forever does not scare them at all. If they are to to be turned into cabbages then so be it. At least they would not have to fight anymore and can eat as much meat as they like without feeling guilty.

They too are trained to take care, cover and protect their comrades, trained by others, usally their mothers, sisters or aunties in their home villages, but mostly by experience at the sharp end, or any end come to that.

And they do all this so civilians can use their body parts and brain tissue for for their own personal amusement.

They way excede the men when it comes to espionage, subterfuge and machination. This becomes particularly evident in the line of battle when they can deceive the enemy into believing that the family's only remaining buffalo is sick and funds are desparately needed along with a short absence from the field of battle. Of course this is not acually carried out and the buffalo story is a ploy. The real intention is to remain in the balltlezone and take on more of the enemy under the cover of darkness.

They even are able to decieve there own superiors and when they are ordered to report back to base they will often plead that their communications links are down and they are trapped when really they are using the comunications to communicate with their comrades in the next sector, like say Soi Binterbaht for example.

The risks these ladies take for the welfare of all is never truly credited and should be given some respect.

So please don't refer to servicemen but serviceoperatives.

[sargeant]

BB yes the closeness of family in bad circumstances is a good way to put it. I would also say that the sound and sight of a buddy being hit is the main thing that tempered and changed my way of looking at life it was so sudden and shocking and though expected it was nothing what up to then i had vaguely thought it would be like.

BB At lower ranks level not especially good xchange rate dont forget they cant go on strike and the govt always have better things to do with the tax the squaddies pay like buying votes

Steve g i agree i was stunned when i became a baggage handler at heathrow i had never had so much cash in my hand

BB i reckon you suffer from sport envy

Lomu I agree with you on every point bar one (it is your fight if you voted for the civilian B#$ that sends them to war) (just my point of view as i say different) and that esipode of mash stuck with me too

Dawn I started this thread because of the john kerry crap and after looking on other sites.
This forum has been exceptionally good and the few sideways comments thrown at me i consider to be good fun. The posts i am answering now show to me that our membership understand it and can amicably agree we aint all the same and that i come from mars

At this point i will say having reread my original post my opening paragraph was badly worded and i apologise if anyone thought i was popping at anyone on this forum i wasnt
Service peops have a great sense of humour so please pop away at me as much as you like, just keep it funny please they will get the joke as well

PJG BB is stating facts and it was a bone of contention between lower ranks, the officers and civilians in my time as well. I may disagree that lower ranks do better than civilians Try baggage handling Idid

My buddy guess great post luv it my days pre mrs sarge i always looked for the sgt major sorry mama san purely for the experience the ones with the queen victoria lie back and think of issan diploma holders bluddy useless
But a valid point in there somewhere sorry ladies no disrespect intended

[STEVE G]

Big Boy wrote:
OK, that was one tour during your service, some have bullets shot at them, others get a bit tired and cold. How much football, rugby & cricket did you play after that tour?

Hi Big Boy, that was for the other lucky buggers who chose the easy jobs on joining. I ended up in a specialization that was in short supply and got constantly shuffled around operational units; during the eighties we were actually spending more time at sea than personnel did during the battle of the Atlantic during WW2. You can’t play cricket on a ship!

[lomuamart]

To Sargeant,
I've got no gripe at all about this thread, but to put the record straight, I have never voted, either for national or local elections, in the UK. And I'm old enough to have done so on many occasions, even by proxy from Thailand.
I never voted anyone in - ever.
That's an aside, but I'm just putting the record straight, as I've said.
Heebio says it best on his signature - never trust a hippy.