I am not sure if this the right forum but I am sure the mods won't mind moving it if appropriate.
Since I have been in Thailand I have seen many changes in a short space of time. Many of theses changes have been attributed by social experts to be symptomatic of rapid economic growth.
Many of these changes are, like it or hate it, public development such as Tesco stores, new roads, fast food outlets, golf courses and maybe one day Disneyworlds.
What I am referring to though is the negative side of economic growth.
Higher street crime rate, higher rate of subverse youth activity and many other higher rates of undesireable street activities.
In Hua Hin there has been a steady but rapid increase in the number of underage kids riding about on motorcycles. In moist cases they are a nuisance rather than a threat. The latest, which I am sure that anybody who gets around town in the evenings will know, is the fire cracker kids. Typically three of them of average age of about 12 or 13 ride around the sois at night dropping crackers with short fuses but long enough to enable them to out of reach when the explosion goes off.
I know yesterday was Loy Kratong and fireworks are generally acceptable in these type of festive periods but I don't think that chucking them into bars is not. I was told that Johnnie Walker's Bar got one thrown in next to the pool table last night.
Three motorcycles were stopped in the same soi about one hour later but extremely unlikely that is was the same kids that had been round earlier. However they had fireworks in their possession and were taken down to the monkey house after calls to their parents.
I will propably find out later what happened to them. My guess is very little and a small donation of cash from the parents will ensure that they return home as soon as possible. These three bikes in my estimate amount to less than 10% of the ones I have seen around for the last two weeks.
What I noticed is that all three of the bikes were brand new and without plates making it easier for the kids to go undetected.
Some people out there have too much money if they can allow kids that age to go out on brand new bikes after midnight without check.
It would be intreresting to see other peoples persepctives on this and all other street crime/misdemeanours that they are aware of.
My view is that if unchecked it will eventually hit the tourism market. This has already happened in Chiang Mai about four or five years ago so the autorities are aware of the potential damage.
The Streets of Thailand
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Guess
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The Streets of Thailand
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I'm not in town so much at night anymore, so it's difficult to make a reasoned comment. However, I do feel that so much of the problem boils down to enforcement of existing laws. The police have never seemed to care much once the sun goes down.
Kids of 12/13 don't have a licence to ride a bike, therefore no insurance as well. Where are the police after dark?
As you've already said, it was Loy Kratong yesterday, so fireworks were maybe more in evidence than normal. However, I came back from a friend's house at about 11pm and Petchkasem Road was "alive" with teenagers on motorbikes, whizzing aroung everywhere, without helmets, basically disobeying all the rules of the road. It was scary and I do hope that there wasn't too much carnage.
The government - of whatever nature - talk incessantly about cracking down on driving infringements, but I'm afraid to say that I've seen no evidence of it. Only hot air.
When you get teenagers who are simply left alone to get on with it, then instances like the firecracker will happen. Why should they worry? Nobody's going to stop them.
Having said all that, HH's still a safe place - from the point of view of street crime - but it does and will continue to happen every now and then without adequate policing.
Kids of 12/13 don't have a licence to ride a bike, therefore no insurance as well. Where are the police after dark?
As you've already said, it was Loy Kratong yesterday, so fireworks were maybe more in evidence than normal. However, I came back from a friend's house at about 11pm and Petchkasem Road was "alive" with teenagers on motorbikes, whizzing aroung everywhere, without helmets, basically disobeying all the rules of the road. It was scary and I do hope that there wasn't too much carnage.
The government - of whatever nature - talk incessantly about cracking down on driving infringements, but I'm afraid to say that I've seen no evidence of it. Only hot air.
When you get teenagers who are simply left alone to get on with it, then instances like the firecracker will happen. Why should they worry? Nobody's going to stop them.
Having said all that, HH's still a safe place - from the point of view of street crime - but it does and will continue to happen every now and then without adequate policing.
Just another example
Unfortunately this is just another example of the police not doing anything.
Well that's not exactly true. They are still making money. Why would they enforce the law when they can make so much more money from these and other misfits. It has been happening for so long people are use to it. Even the Foreigners who break the law insist that even if they're caught they will just pay what ever is required.
Well that's not exactly true. They are still making money. Why would they enforce the law when they can make so much more money from these and other misfits. It has been happening for so long people are use to it. Even the Foreigners who break the law insist that even if they're caught they will just pay what ever is required.
Good thread, yes one thing that's always annoyed me is schools, you get hundreds of kids on bikes with no helmets, and the police are around the corner trying to nab farangs for an extra hundred.
They should simply confiscate the bike. Last night was a one off but as you say this problem seems to be getting worse.
They should simply confiscate the bike. Last night was a one off but as you say this problem seems to be getting worse.
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Guess
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Yes, exactly.buksida wrote:Last night was a one off but as you say this problem seems to be getting worse.
Last night was a one off but the pattern had been building up for at least two weeks. Before that we had a less often but more intense set of vandal attacks. None of them caused any real damage but could have done.
It is interesting to see Lomu's observation as it was obvious that they must have had a control epicentre somewher in Hua Hin by the frequency by which they rode by.
As for the police, with the exception of the case I already mentioned, they were just not around. The arrest that happened last night was purely due to complaints to the police which was then acted upon by one office which I think was acting on his own behalf rather than under orders.
He got plenty of backup when he called in though.
I would like to hear peoples general observations from all over Thailand going back as long as they have been here. Even better would be the views of Thai people.
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Last month over a couple of nights, I think it was the holiday weekend there were large gangs of teenagers chasing each other about and fighting all over the city. I don’t know if they are gangs or schools but they were being a pain.
One night about fifty of them came past JWs and your place, some running and some on motorbikes, like you say it’s not good for the tourist image of the place.
One night about fifty of them came past JWs and your place, some running and some on motorbikes, like you say it’s not good for the tourist image of the place.
As Steve G says, teenage gangs can run riot.
All I'll say is that there was running feud between two groups when I came over 8 years ago. Naturally, we kept well away, but the violence between them eventually resulted in a fatal shooting. Various other seriously violent incidents happened. I suppose those people have now grown up - I still see some of them around town - but their younger brothers and sisters are still "up for it".
We cared, but couldn't get involved. It didn't harm the tourist reputation of HH one bit. Look at the town now.
I'll be a bit provocative, but why does anyone think the situation will change now?
All I'll say is that there was running feud between two groups when I came over 8 years ago. Naturally, we kept well away, but the violence between them eventually resulted in a fatal shooting. Various other seriously violent incidents happened. I suppose those people have now grown up - I still see some of them around town - but their younger brothers and sisters are still "up for it".
We cared, but couldn't get involved. It didn't harm the tourist reputation of HH one bit. Look at the town now.
I'll be a bit provocative, but why does anyone think the situation will change now?
Where is the emoticon wearing a tin hat cos i am gonna need it
Guess i have seen and heard a constant depreciation in the way the youth of thailand percieve and behave towards falangs and their own elders
I had a nasty incident only 3 weeks ago late at night my bike kicked out from under me as 3 kids went past, to dark to recognise them
In exactely the same place an elderly thai neighbour was robbed ??
I think sometimes it is tourist influences like 50 stone women wearing bikinis not wearing shirts in town etc
they are percieved as not showing respect and therefore not deserving of any in return and once on that slippery slope it only ever goes one way
Guess as i said in my thread low cost housing I feel a resentment in it as well and i hear it from the older generation the kids hear it from them and thus lower goes their respect
(picture tin hat)
I also think the same as lomu the genie is out of the bottle and he aint getting back in
Steve G TIC bungalow for sale very cheap seafront complete with pool and nightly drive bys no tourist image to spoil the view
TIC tongue in cheek
Guess i have seen and heard a constant depreciation in the way the youth of thailand percieve and behave towards falangs and their own elders
I had a nasty incident only 3 weeks ago late at night my bike kicked out from under me as 3 kids went past, to dark to recognise them
In exactely the same place an elderly thai neighbour was robbed ??
I think sometimes it is tourist influences like 50 stone women wearing bikinis not wearing shirts in town etc
they are percieved as not showing respect and therefore not deserving of any in return and once on that slippery slope it only ever goes one way
Guess as i said in my thread low cost housing I feel a resentment in it as well and i hear it from the older generation the kids hear it from them and thus lower goes their respect
(picture tin hat)I also think the same as lomu the genie is out of the bottle and he aint getting back in
Steve G TIC bungalow for sale very cheap seafront complete with pool and nightly drive bys no tourist image to spoil the view
TIC tongue in cheek
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DawnHRD
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I've heard of or seen a few disturbing things attributed to kids lately & they have been in Thai areas, so I doubt they were influenced by tourists.
There have been gangs of kids on motorbikes around here too. I've been woken at 3 in the morning by the dogs barking & gone outside to see kids of 13 or 14 on motorbikes, tearing up & down disturbing everyone & generally creating havoc & danger (big trucks use this road even in the wee, small hours). The worst thing is I'm the one that gets dogs poisoned or death threats for myself when the dogs are noisy & it's these little so-and-so's creating the problems!
And the fireworks - thrown into my garden last night. The dogs were terrified & it made me jump out of my seat a little.
I also heard from a friend in Cha am that she actually saw a boy of about 4 or 5 kill a kitten by swinging it against a rock. He & his brothers/friends found this hugely funny & played with the body for a while afterwards. I know a lot of you don't like cats, but surely anyone has to see how deeply disturbing this is. Don't they say psychopaths start on animals?
I don't know what's happening, or why this seems to be going on more now; farang influence, media, socio-economic factors, lack of parental discipline... but it's definitely a recent phenomenon & one that smacks scarily of Western countries ...
There have been gangs of kids on motorbikes around here too. I've been woken at 3 in the morning by the dogs barking & gone outside to see kids of 13 or 14 on motorbikes, tearing up & down disturbing everyone & generally creating havoc & danger (big trucks use this road even in the wee, small hours). The worst thing is I'm the one that gets dogs poisoned or death threats for myself when the dogs are noisy & it's these little so-and-so's creating the problems!
And the fireworks - thrown into my garden last night. The dogs were terrified & it made me jump out of my seat a little.
I also heard from a friend in Cha am that she actually saw a boy of about 4 or 5 kill a kitten by swinging it against a rock. He & his brothers/friends found this hugely funny & played with the body for a while afterwards. I know a lot of you don't like cats, but surely anyone has to see how deeply disturbing this is. Don't they say psychopaths start on animals?
I don't know what's happening, or why this seems to be going on more now; farang influence, media, socio-economic factors, lack of parental discipline... but it's definitely a recent phenomenon & one that smacks scarily of Western countries
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Dawn,
It's not recent and it's definitely not farang. It's been here all the time. I've seen it and others, living here much longer than me, have seen much more.
The mentality is there. There's nothing we, as ex-pats, can do about it.
If anyone is looking for a "change", they'd better wait a good few generations.
It's not recent and it's definitely not farang. It's been here all the time. I've seen it and others, living here much longer than me, have seen much more.
The mentality is there. There's nothing we, as ex-pats, can do about it.
If anyone is looking for a "change", they'd better wait a good few generations.
At some point a flash point will occur, these t***s will piss off some big falang get seriously messed up. It will get even uglier after this. The cracker landed on the pool table and did damage, the cops did nothing. F****** useless - gonna try and get this taken further. Wont get anywhere but want to get it off my chest.
Sounds to me as being the bless of progressing civilization 
Everywhere in Europe this delopment has been evident for years, basically due to the change in family patterns. In modern society both parents are working all day, and the kids are left to entertain themselves, and to remedy the parent's bad conscience they equip their youngsters with various kind of consumables and increasing amount of pocket-money as substitution to the attention and need of role-models those youngsters really need. This lack of role-models, who can set right guidelines for proper social behaviour, means that the youngsters group up in "gangs", and very often it's the loudest boy in the group setting the standard for this "gangs" behaviour.
In many European contries they have formed a SSP-group to deal with the problem, and in very exstreme cases, the "boss of the gang" are covered by social workers/police for 24-7 (SSP - Social worker, School and Police). - I'm not even sure this really helps in all cases, as there seems to be difficulties getting the parents to co-operate, because their son is such a "good boy" - that he would never do like that - it must be all the others.
So, to say that it's due to farangs acting crazy or what ever is only part of it - economical growth creates this problem - any kind of economical growth.
Actually this is seen before in other forms - The Mods in the sixties - the Punks in the eighties - and today "Happy Slappers" etc.
Just my 2 cent's
Everywhere in Europe this delopment has been evident for years, basically due to the change in family patterns. In modern society both parents are working all day, and the kids are left to entertain themselves, and to remedy the parent's bad conscience they equip their youngsters with various kind of consumables and increasing amount of pocket-money as substitution to the attention and need of role-models those youngsters really need. This lack of role-models, who can set right guidelines for proper social behaviour, means that the youngsters group up in "gangs", and very often it's the loudest boy in the group setting the standard for this "gangs" behaviour.
In many European contries they have formed a SSP-group to deal with the problem, and in very exstreme cases, the "boss of the gang" are covered by social workers/police for 24-7 (SSP - Social worker, School and Police). - I'm not even sure this really helps in all cases, as there seems to be difficulties getting the parents to co-operate, because their son is such a "good boy" - that he would never do like that - it must be all the others.
So, to say that it's due to farangs acting crazy or what ever is only part of it - economical growth creates this problem - any kind of economical growth.
Actually this is seen before in other forms - The Mods in the sixties - the Punks in the eighties - and today "Happy Slappers" etc.
Just my 2 cent's
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Guess
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In no way will I defend the men in brown as I have had more grief from them in the past than I have deserved and absolutely no help when needed. I look after myself now.JW wrote:At some point a flash point will occur, these t***s will piss off some big falang get seriously messed up. It will get even uglier after this. The cracker landed on the pool table and did damage, the cops did nothing. F****** useless - gonna try and get this taken further. Wont get anywhere but want to get it off my chest.
However with regards to last nights incident one MIB did actually do something but as I said before it was more of a one man band approach than orchestrated. Nine arrests were made and all of them were under age for riding motorcycles.
The problems that the cops did have last night in addition to this was a series of gang fights on the beach and robberies along with Petchakasem road being taken over by kids on bikes. With regard the fireworks they can only ever catch the bikes behind. The bike that threw the firework is usually out of sight by the time the firework is noticed. On top of this the Police Station was full last night.
Now the worrying things is that this is in a town that boasts more police per capita than any other in Thailand so what the hell is it like elsewhere.
I think what we are seeing is symptomatic of the economic situation in Thailand and what JW says is also my view of what will happen next.
I can see a very ugly situation approaching if the wrong person gets involved. That could be a farang but equally dangerously could be a local Thai.
I wish you good luck with taking it further but may be an idea to get a concerted effort together. I know that Lucky Shot bar had problems two nights before and had the police in but I do not know if anyone was caught.
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