servicemen

[Wanderlust]

Getting this back on topic, I don't know anyone currently in the services, but I tend to agree with Pagey that I doubt many (if any) people in the services join because they have a burning desire to (a) protect the country or (b) defend others rights. Most make a straightforward career choice, and if they are involved in a conflict, the noble nature of what they are doing is shown by their actions in that conflict. I think it must be hard for combatants in wars such as Vietnam or Iraq (or even the Falklands possibly) to see what they are doing as defending anything other than politicians' positions or businessmen's profits, which may partially explain the muddled minds of some of those involved, who will have seen horrific sights, lost good friends and killed innocents, to return to discover that nothing has changed. Those who fight for a 'genuine' cause, such as against Hitler in WWII, will not have had the same dilemma as regards the war being right, although would still be deeply affected by what they saw and had to do.
I would agree with sargeant that many service personnel have a different view of things, although that will depend entirely on length of service as well as the conflicts they were involved in. However I also believe that many who serve a relatively short time may become more cynical and disillusioned than your average person. I firmly believe that the first people on the front line of any war should be the politicians (and their children) who think it's a good idea, and thank you to Michael Moore for his attempt in the movie 'Fahrenheit 9/11' to get members of Congress to sign their children up for the War in Iraq!

[STEVE G]

Wanderlust wrote:

I doubt many (if any) people in the services join because they have a burning desire to (a) protect the country or (b) defend others rights.

I would agree with the above, I would say most people, myself included, joined at a young age purely from a sense of adventure.

[Randy Cornhole]

Thats exactly I joined the RN at 16, for an adventure and because my father was Navy for 12 years and my mum was also a wren for 6 years. All they kept talking about were the good old days. Boy oh boy was I in for a shock when I arrived at 'Raleigh'..... Good times were had though once you settled in.

[sargeant]

Thanks very much wanderlust a well written well thought out post and i agree 100%.
As with randy and steve G i didnt join the army out of a sense of duty i joined cos it sounded a lot better than borstal (borrowing m/c and not putting them back where i found them) and for the first year i was also convinced i had got that decision wrong

There is however the phenomina of whenever there is an upsurge of conflict there is a corresponding increase in recruitment now called the rambo factor by my servicemen colleagues

Thanks guess you found the connection i drank erdinger in my army days where does he get it here though

I prefer the titanium age or the callaway age myself or did you mean the brozeac age

[lomuamart]

Erdinger? Me? Don't touch the stuff.

[sargeant]

sorry lomu i meany herforder must be my prozac playing up again

[PeteC]

It doesn't make any difference what anyone thinks about American at present. Insert whatever country you would like, below. When finished reading it, I hope the thought is about the soldier as a man or woman doing their sworn duty, not about the politics. Pete
_____________________________

A Different Christmas Poem


The embers glowed softly, and in their dim light,

I gazed round the room and I cherished the sight.

My wife was asleep, her head on my chest,

My daughter beside me, angelic in rest.

Outside the snow fell, a blanket of white,

Transforming the yard to a winter delight.

The sparkling lights in the tree I believe,

Completed the magic that was Christmas Eve.

My eyelids were heavy, my breathing was deep,

Secure and surrounded by love I would sleep.

In perfect contentment, or so it would seem,

So I slumbered, perhaps I started to dream.



The sound wasn't loud, and it wasn't too near,

But I opened my eyes when it tickled my ear.

Perhaps just a cough, I didn't quite know,

Then the sure sound of footsteps outside in the snow.

My soul gave a tremble, I struggled to hear,

And I crept to the door just to see who was near.

Standing out in the cold and the dark of the night,

A lone figure stood, his face weary and tight.



A soldier, I puzzled, some twenty years old,

Perhaps a Marine, huddled here in the cold.

Alone in the dark, he looked up and smiled,

Standing watch over me, and my wife and my child.

"What are you doing?" I asked without fear,

"Come in this moment, it's freezing out here!

Put down your pack, brush the snow from your sleeve,

You should be at home on a cold Christmas Eve!"



For barely a moment I saw his eyes shift,

Away from the cold and the snow blown in drifts..

To the window that danced with a warm fire's light

Then he sighed and he said "Its really all right,

I'm out here by choice. I'm here every night."

"It's my duty to stand at the front of the line,

That separates you from the darkest of times.

No one had to ask or beg or implore me,

I'm proud to stand here like my fathers before me.

My Gramps died at ' Pearl on a day in December,"

Then he sighed, "That's a Christmas 'Gram always remembers."

My dad stood his watch in the jungles of ' Nam ',

And now it is my turn and so, here I am.

I've not seen my own son in more than a while,

But my wife sends me pictures, he's sure got her smile.

Then he bent and he carefully pulled from his bag,

The red, white, and blue... an American flag.

I can live through the cold and the being alone,

Away from my family, my house and my home.

I can stand at my post through the rain and the sleet,

I can sleep in a foxhole with little to eat.

I can carry the weight of killing another,

Or lay down my life with my sister and brother..

Who stand at the front against any and all,

To ensure for all time that this flag will not fall."

"So go back inside," he said, "harbor no fright,

Your family is waiting and I'll be all right."

"But isn't there something I can do, at the least,

"Give you money," I asked, "or prepare you a feast?

It seems all too little for all that you've done,

For being away from your wife and your son."

Then his eye welled a tear that held no regret,

"Just tell us you love us, and never forget.

To fight for our rights back at home while we're gone,

To stand your own watch, no matter how long.

For when we come home, either standing or dead,

To know you remember we fought and we bled.

Is payment enough, and with that we will trust,

That we mattered to you as you mattered to us."

[JD]

[JD]

And let us not forget 11/11 Remembrance Day.

Many great and small wars for freedom or political gain.

The innocent, called up or gung ho, the civilians, the genocidal maniacs. All manner of people and families who get caught up in boys games who suffer. For what? What someone calls freedom? A sense of Duty? Patriotism? Why should innocents die?

I must be just a small mind in a big world, I've never understood this war thing. But if you sign on to do the job, don't complain after if you end up doing active service, just remember, you will be remembered. I personally, didn’t need the brainwashing, But I know many, (families and friends) who did it. And I understand the sacrifice they gave to give me a better choice regarding the world that I live in.

[DawnHRD]

In response to WL's comment about recruits not joining the services to go to war, I've just found an ad for the British Army in a UK women's magazine. Are they asking for women recruits? Oh, no. The full page ad is entitled:

How my Army man made me proud

It is supposedly the story of a 22 yr old girl engaged to a 22 year old in the Royal Green Jackets. He's been in for 6 years. She talks about how proud she is of the fact he's made something of his life, the army has taught him to drive, got him qualifications, given him self-discipline & respect for others. She misses him when he's away, but that's a sacrifice she's willing to make.

The official recruiting blurb goes on to say:

Do you know a young man who's got what it takes to be a British Infantry soldier? They're recognised as being among the best in the world.

It goes on to list all the perks including possible qualifications, health benefits, pension, subsidised accommodation & pay (11,744GBP pa on joining and 13,866 - 16,852GBP pa for a private, rising with rank - pretty tempting for a 16 year old school leaver)

"Hours are normally 8am-5pm, Mondays to Fridays, with evenings weekends and bank holidays free unless on operations or training. An Infantry soldier gets 30 days paid leave a year"

No mention of the possibility of conflict and that if such conflict arises, the recruit will be expected to fight &, if needed, lay down his life. Even cigarette packets have a health warning on them...

Apologies, Pete & JD, didn't mean to overshadow your very poignant posts in any way.
Although, coming from a service background, I fully support sevicemen & the job they do, I do believe the recruiters could be a little more honest about what may be expected of the guys they're recruiting. And advertising it in a woman's magazine, with the idea of getting women (girlfriends, mothers etc) to recruit for them isn't good IMO. It reminds me of the "white feathers" being handed out by those reprehensible females in WWI.

[Huahinian]

I am old enough to have experienced military conscription in the UK. One didn't decide to join but simply received call-up papers telling you where to report. I was a "Brylcream Boy" and if you remember that you are older than you care to admit. As the vast majority of the conscripts did not want to be in the military, there were a number of rebels but it was interesting to see that discipline bred self-discipline, inspections created orderliness and group punishment led to teamwork. Job training was excellent and every opportunity was provided to progress further. I left the service as a fitter, more qualified individual. Rules were followed and any infraction was punished. I wish that could be said of many of today's youth. Ex-servicemen are individuals - treat them as such!

Some of you ex-service people may enjoy the following:

Fifty-one years ago, Herman James, a North Carolina mountain man,
was drafted by the Army. On his first day in basic training, the Army
issued him a comb.

That afternoon the Army barber sheared off all his hair.

On his second day, the Army issued Herman a toothbrush.

That afternoon the Army dentist yanked seven of his teeth.

On the third day, the Army issued him a jock strap

The Army has been looking for Herman for 51 years.

[sargeant]

Pete Brilliant i have printed it off, now doing it in fancy writing gonna frame it and as you quite rightly say insert any country.
I dont agree with the iraq war but i started this thread because of what i read on other sites.To me a serviceman is a serviceman irrespective of his nationality,
JD my sentiments entirely so at least there are 2 small minds and judging by the responses to this thread we wont be lonely
I would just add to {why should innocents die} the innocents are murdered and when polititions refer to them as collateral damage it makes my blood boil
Dawn i just hope that any young man or his girl are reading this thread i dont want to stop anyone joining it is a great career but they should join for the correct reasons and be fully informed before they sign and accept the shilling. Therefore me and that article part company.
Although i am no longer in the military with my future son in law his father and mrs Sarges nephew all in the army here, it isnt far away from me just seeing my georgeous daughters face yesterday (23rd Birthday) when her fiances phone call From Narathiwat was late brought it all back
My 2 previous wives have that tshirt in technicolours