Iraq - what a mess!

[Jockey]

Sadam Hussain might be sentanced to death soon ... but at what cost? Well over half a million people dead and the numbers are rising daily! There are over two million Iraqi refugees. Apparently the scale of the war is massively under reported. Why did we (UK and USA) invade this country? What have they acheived? A human catastrophy! If Sadam deserves the death penalty then surely Bush and Blair should join him. For more info http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1814772006

[sargeant]

Boy o Boy do i agree with you jockey but i was saying it was an illegal war and unnecessary from the get go

And all because Bush wouldnt wait for the cia weapons inspectors to finish there job and tell the public the truth a mere 30 more days.

I fully backed the afghan war (i am against war) i could see no other response sanctions against one of the poorest countries in the world wouldnt cut it and al qaeda was a legitimate target but it is also still a mess and getting worse.

But i believed that bush would go to Bagdad before he had been in office 5 days (To avenge the assasination attempt on his father) and was prepared to cherry pick the inteligence (bordering on lying) to get there

Yes it is a bluddy mess but it has effected so many and the future for all is now even more dangerous for all.

And i agree they should face trial both of them whats good for the goose is good for the gander

[Burger]

Bush and Blair look like complete fools now, IMO.

Burger

[sargeant]

Dont forget howard and mr t athos porthos aramis and dartagnan

set of dangerous egotistical prats

And lead by a merchant banker thats so stupid he cant eat pretzels wihout choking

A draft dodging tosser to boot

[Jockey]

They actually tried to have us believe they were giving Iraqi's 'freedom'. Aye, these nice American soldiers bombin' the f' out of the country so that they can let these poor Iraqi's have a vote on what leader the American's appoint.
Why pity the Iraqi mother who's husband has been killed, her son's murdered, daughter's raped and daughter's children maimed for life when she should be grateful to these wonderful American's and Brits for liberating them and giving them a vote.
This 'democracy' and 'freedom' rhetoric is a very sad joke. The irony is the only people you are allowed to vote for in America is very rich people representing very rich business's. The weapon's business in America has made 'a killing' out of this (in more ways than over 600,000).

[Big A]

They actually tried to have us believe they were giving Iraqi's 'freedom'. Aye, these nice American soldiers bombin' the f' out of the country so that they can let these poor Iraqi's have a vote on what leader the American's appoint.
Why pity the Iraqi mother who's husband has been killed, her son's murdered, daughter's raped and daughter's children maimed for life when she should be grateful to these wonderful American's and Brits for liberating them and giving them a vote.
This 'democracy' and 'freedom' rhetoric is a very sad joke. The irony is the only people you are allowed to vote for in America is very rich people representing very rich business's. The weapon's business in America has made 'a killing' out of this (in more ways than over 600,000).

You left out Australia

[Big A]

[quote="sargeant"]Boy o Boy do i agree with you jockey but i was saying it was an illegal war

So what if its illegal, lots of things in life are illegal. I'm against the war and extended involvement also and think they screwed things up as well but don't see what a veneer of legality or illegality accomplishes. You either have the power or you don't; If you have it and are successful then the end justifys the means. Thats just how it works at the state level. In this case they failed so they will be held accountable but that does not mean very much.

Like somebody will abduct Bush to have him tried at the Hague?

[sargeant]

"And Unnecessary" please quote all of it Al thats the same crap of cherry picking that bush did with the intelligence.

And i hope someone does abduct the 2 of them and then lets hear the truth of how much the bush/Blair/Howard admins warped and twisted the Intelligence and lets hear it in open court

As for might is right if anything this debacle prooves. it is that that statement is total crap

They dished out victors justice to Saddam he deserved the sentence but not the bluddy show/sham trial
and they call that justice
Quote Big Al {so what if its illegal } What a statement? 600.000 are not here to disagree with you

The people of Iraq had an election voting for USAs nominated candidates
and then have the audacity to call it democracy (what is frightening is the Polititions are so arrogant they believe it to be democracy)

Collaterall damage is deliberate murder of innocent civilians full stop and any politition should be held accountable especially if he abuses his might

And why did 600,000 people die???
for bushes revenge and 2 dollars a gallon sickening

and what have we got for it??? a far far more dangerous world that will have repercussions that will haunt mankind for generations to come

[Mack111]

I agree Sadam probably deserved to be ousted from power but its certainly wasn’t for bush to decide who and when, if any other country’s leader acted the way Bush has he would have been charged with war crimes.

I work with a heap of Americans (there all expats) and they hate Bush with a passion.

I love reading Michael Moore’s work; he seems to have Bush pretty much weighed up.

[Wanderlust]

I agree with most of the above, but I think lumping in the other political leaders (Blair, Howard etc) is a little unfair - even if they had said no way it would still have happened and then there would have been no check on what the US have been doing. There would also have been economic implications for those countries as the US is notorious for 'punishing' those countries who don't help them, either at government level or by it's citizens - French products were boycotted by the Americans because of it's stance over the war. In the case of the UK they have been 'paying' for the US help in WWII ever since, with every government of every colour as far up their bottom as it is possible to be - the 'special relationship' - so as much as I would have liked Blair to have told them where to go, it just wasn't feasible realistically. I would like to see an attempt to distance the UK from the US over the coming years though, as I believe the US will implode financially and politically in the next few years as China asserts itself as the global superpower, and that could be dangerous for everyone.
The casualty figures are grim, but who knows what Saddam would have done if he had remained in power? The most telling thing for me is that he was put in place by the US originally in another failed attempt at manipulating the region, something I hope they never try again. Most of this is, unfortunately, all being done because of the strong pro-Israel lobby and the arms industry, and for things to change in American foreign policy, those lobbies must cease to exert influence, but it ain't gonna happen. Even if Bush wasn't President it would still direct things in the same way because their money elects whoever is in charge. It's a very sad and worrying picture.

[sargeant]

WL i read your post and thought i had written it myself especially the pro isrealy lobby reference mind you i would in conversation be a lot more specific after all the Capital of the US is Tel Aviv

The WW11 debt was however cleared under Reagan and Maggie in her 2nd term but up to that point we paid interest billions of it

Should i ever get into a punch up and you help me out i sure as hell wont expect you to pay for the knuckle duster i loaned you

The Special relationship is a larf Palestine, Suez and northern Ireland being 3 instances of the USA excreting on their so called special allies heads

I do lump them together because they could quite easily have made Bush wait the 30 days the weapons inspectors the french and germans asked for ( i will expand on that in another post)

Economic implications US sanctions buying votes at the UN it goes on and on and can simply be called US domination in its own self interest or in
2 words bluddy bullying

I also agree that china will trim the USAs wings after all it owns 52% of the US debt

I agree Sadam had to go but it didnt need a full scale war a couple of grammes of polonium 210 and a few million dollars could have done it nicely

Anyway great post WL

[Jockey]

Watched that pair of slimy con artists last night at the staged press conference. The questions from the journalists were supposed to be difficult - it was like a gentleman's club with the devil-angel condoleza rice watching in the back seats. Notice they referred to 9/11 again. Iraq had F-all to do with 9/11!
They bombed the hell out of Iraq killing (murdering) innocent children on their way. At the time they used the excuse it was to stop Saddam using his 'WMD's". When that lie was exposed they said it was to stop Saddam from doing bad things! When that lie was ridiculed, they now say they are fighting 'extremists'. Imagine if your country was invaded. Would you think people fighting back were extremists? They make it up as they go along. The people that make weapons make money and when they cannot take it any further, they will appoint an even bigger tyrant than Saddam to suppress the people and instill order into the country. That's what they do - put bstrd's in charge, then use them as an excuse to make war, then appoint bigger bstrd's.

[Guess]

Dont forget howard

Prophetic word there Sarge.

I agree with most of the above, but I think lumping in the other political leaders (Blair, Howard etc) is a little unfair

I think lumping Bush in with those two actually gives Bush some credit of thought. I don't believe he is capable. Don't forget the most powerful of all is Murdoch and he has not had a mention yet. He controls media in the three "axis of evil nations".

In the case of the UK they have been 'paying' for the US help in WWII ever since, with every government of every colour as far up their bottom as it is possible to be - the 'special relationship' - so as much as I would have liked Blair to have told them where to go, it just wasn't feasible realistically. I would like to see an attempt to distance the UK from the US over the coming years though, as I believe the US will implode financially and politically in the next few years as China asserts itself as the global superpower, and that could be dangerous for everyone.

I could write a book on my response to that sentence. I don't know how you reckon that the UK has been paying the US. The truth as I know it is that the UK has been using the US as a bank roller and a dump for its products and services ever since the second world war. I have no exact figures to hand but my guess is the balance of payments between the two nations is well in favor of the UK. The current state of the US Dollar vs the PST backs that up.

The point I would like to make here is that Bush was elected in the first time by a foreign media mogul who is based in the UK and on good terms with Blair. over 30% of all NYSE and NASDAQ stock is owned by foreigners and foreign corporations. Most of it is Middle Eastern and European. I would guess that the majority of the remainder is Chinese/Chinese Empirical or Singaporean. So I agree Chinese will become the worlds superpower yet again after a powerless period of 600 years. The term "Diarrhea Drain Without a Snorkel" comes to mind.

I do agree with the separation of the US from the UK. I think that the US should be given their independence as as soon as possible. Perhaps they could move Israel to the Mojave desert at the same time. Th climaye is the same and the buses are safer.

[caller]

I do agree with the separation of the US from the UK. I think that the US should be given their independence as as soon as possible.

I'd rather it be Scotland first!

[WingNut]

I supported Bush/Blair then and Support them now. Bad intel yes, but right choice longterm. Hindsight is 20/20 and things could have been done better, but considering what they knew, it was the best decision. Now help the Iraqis build and then stabalize the region.

I would rather drink a beer and discuss ladies than argue politics though.