The land of NO U-turns!!

[bozzman101]

great news buk

would be a great help for a new retire ee hope to be there end march
hope you have your piece on how to do defence driving etc is up by then

[HHTel]

Sorry Winkie, but with that clever attitude, one day, you're gonna arrive DEAD and become another Thai statistic. Did you know that 60, yes 60 motorcyclists are killed every day in Thailand. You wanna be one of them.

One of the things I avoided saying earlier but I'll say it now is this. There is only one type of person on the road that is more stupid than a local driver - and that is a farang who copies them. You learn from your peers so obviously you see them as your peers.

Talking of learning from your peers, about 18 months ago I conducted my own survey (sad b****rd that I am) and counted and logged the traffic violations over a week. Starting on the Monday, I reached the 100 in HH by Friday. Not surprised eh? Now I'll tell you that I was only logging violations by the police themselves. They set the example don't they. They pretty much covered every violation you could think of.

Personally, I don't give a monkey's a*se whether other people wear seat belts or safety helmets as long as I and my family do. Wearing a belt or helmet doesn't improve driving or reduce accidents. It only reduces deaths. After all dead is cheaper and much more managable by the hospitals (even San Paulo). These people have no thought for the family and friends they leave behind.

A policeman told me that the helmet law is there for your own safety. What about the passenger, he seems to be okay. Again, the seat belt law is there for your own safety. You'll be fined if you don't wear one. However, the 20 guys stood up like soldiers in the back of the pick-up are okay I suppose.

I agree with the comments about the local rags. Does anyone know anybody in the new paper. Maybe, just maybe, it'll be different. I had one of the last letters printed in Hua Hin Today after accusing them of being no more than a magazine as journalism was non-existant as was the lack of anything controversial.

So we all sit back and do nothing! Watch our friends and family get killed. I was a friend of Bjorn and he's not the first friend I've lost on the roads out here.

Take care folks.

[SuperTonic]

My own take on things is that you should simply look after yourself and your friends and family. That means getting a helmet, not driving pissed, not driving like a loony, getting good health insurance, and keeping your wits about you. Do all the above and your chances will be no worse than in the UK.

[STEVE G]

HHTel, take a look at the following publication from the Asian Development Bank; it gives some idea of the cost of this problem both in lives and economically, and some pointers to future improvements.
http://www.adp.org/documents/reports/ar ... -alive.pdf

[Jockey]

Sorry Winkie, but with that clever attitude, one day, you're gonna arrive DEAD and become another Thai statistic. Did you know that 60, yes 60 motorcyclists are killed every day in Thailand. You wanna be one of them.

One of the things I avoided saying earlier but I'll say it now is this. There is only one type of person on the road that is more stupid than a local driver - and that is a farang who copies them. You learn from your peers so obviously you see them as your peers.

Talking of learning from your peers, about 18 months ago I conducted my own survey (sad b****rd that I am) and counted and logged the traffic violations over a week. Starting on the Monday, I reached the 100 in HH by Friday. Not surprised eh? Now I'll tell you that I was only logging violations by the police themselves. They set the example don't they. They pretty much covered every violation you could think of.

Personally, I don't give a monkey's a*se whether other people wear seat belts or safety helmets as long as I and my family do. Wearing a belt or helmet doesn't improve driving or reduce accidents. It only reduces deaths. After all dead is cheaper and much more managable by the hospitals (even San Paulo). These people have no thought for the family and friends they leave behind.

A policeman told me that the helmet law is there for your own safety. What about the passenger, he seems to be okay. Again, the seat belt law is there for your own safety. You'll be fined if you don't wear one. However, the 20 guys stood up like soldiers in the back of the pick-up are okay I suppose.

I agree with the comments about the local rags. Does anyone know anybody in the new paper. Maybe, just maybe, it'll be different. I had one of the last letters printed in Hua Hin Today after accusing them of being no more than a magazine as journalism was non-existant as was the lack of anything controversial.

So we all sit back and do nothing! Watch our friends and family get killed. I was a friend of Bjorn and he's not the first friend I've lost on the roads out here.

Take care folks.

As I said before, please write to editor@huahinmirror.com

Your letter will be shown to the relevant authority who will be asked to respond. The Hua Hin mirror is wriiten in Thai and English so any letter will be read by both Thai and English speaking people. Questions rather than demands is probably the best way to get your letter respected.

I am the agent for the Hua Hin Mirror for Cha Am and I know the good people who run the paper (Thai owned).

[Wanderlust]

Afraid I'm with Farang on this one, the tessabahn and local constabulary don't give a hoot what farangs think and the local media are more interested in selling real estate ads than any reporting or investigative journalism.

I couldn't resist quoting you from the other thread that Farang mentioned:

Interesting comments on publications and what they can or can't print.

On a larger scale I have experience with a global publication, even they have to be careful what they run since they're based in Thailand, and we know how much the PM loves the press.

On a smaller scale it would be similar, anything detrimental to the growth of the town or the livelihoods of local (Thai) business people and officials would come under a great deal of criticism.

I'm not saying that HH doesnt need something like this, just that it would be an extremely difficult job for a foreigner to succeed in and a Thai run publication just wouldnt produce the results that we need.

And this is exactly why the current media in Hua Hin cannot do what has been suggested. Even politely worded questions in the manner suggested by Jockey in another thread will be taken as veiled criticism, with the potential loss of face, and will be ignored, deflected or skirted around in some way. I have tried asking about the planned new province of Hua Hin, hardly a controversial or critical question, to have that batted down, so what chance something that brings into question the traffic laws or the efficiency of their enforcement? The owners of the various publications are not in it for some fanciful notion of doing some good for the community (although undoubtedly happy if that is a by-product), they are businessmen who want to make money, just as the media moguls of this world are. And even when the business and public interests happen to coincide and the big dailies print a damaging story, how often does something happen? As someone once said, yesterdays newspapers are todays toilet paper (or words to that effect). I really think you are barking up the wrong tree by asking the local farang or Thai media to deal with this or other issues, and criticising them for not risking being closed down is ridiculous.
So to HHTel I say that no farang here has the 'clout' to do anything; to Farang I say that as it seems to be a pet subject of yours, you go off and show the balls to start up a newspaper that tells it how it is; and to buksida, you should know better, given HHAD's policy to avoid being closed down and your quoted previous comments.

[buksida]

I agree with you WL, hence my comments both recent and past - I stick to them.

Maybe a Thai run publication such as the one Jockey suggested will have more luck - but I doubt it, anything critical is a no-no, easier to just brush it under the proverbial carpet, smile, and pretend it doesn't exist.

[Jockey]

I agree with what Wanderlust wrote, however, every (respectable) letter the Hua Hin Mirror receive, they will show to the relevant authority and ask for feedback which will be printed in both Thai and English. Whether that helps or not is a matter for conjecture. The Hua Hin Mirror is also Thai owned.

[HHTel]

Okay guys, my last word on this (I hope).

Thanks for the advice Jockey. After talking to you today, it seems that it might have a chance. I will write, in the right tone, apologetic for asking the questions. It can't do any harm.

To Jimmy,
I agree with what you say in principle. Long before Market Village opened, it was obvious that some facility was made to get in and out. Cutting through the central reservation and installing traffic lights seemed the obvious answer.
However, they closed all the U-turns except one. This is the only one with a slip lane which you favour. But, at weekends and holidays, the police close off the slip lane along with another two lanes on both sides of the road to allow a hassle free u-turn. Never mind the mainstream traffic!
I agree a slip lane at U-turns is ideal. Remember though, where there is a 3 lane highway, the the offside lane is only there for overtaking. U-turns are signposted in advance so you shouldn't be overtaking at a U-turn. You wouldn't dream of overtaking at a junction would you. It's the same.

Thanks for your views.

Take care folks.

[Farang]

,,,,snip, snip,,,,
So to HHTel I say that no farang here has the 'clout' to do anything; to Farang I say that as it seems to be a pet subject of yours, you go off and show the balls to start up a newspaper that tells it how it is; and to buksida, you should know better, given HHAD's policy to avoid being closed down and your quoted previous comments.

This subject is by no way my pet subject. Actually I do not have a pet subject. We have had this conversation
before and I am not going to bore anyone by quoting it. All I am saying, and you most emphatically confirm this,
that the present rags we now have in HH cover only positive things. I say again, that we lack a brave
weekly rag such as Phuket Gazette. Google it up. Read the reader questions they pose to authorities
and admire the answers they get. Somehow they manage to get some real answers and still remain in business. *
They do not seem to worry about their laundry bill when grilling the authorities about controversial matters.
I am sure there would be an opening for a weekly rag in HH run by the way Phuket Gazette is run.
I am sure there would be an investment possibility to co-syndicate a weekly Hua Hin Gazette with PG
just by running the local HH and C-A pages in the PG auxiliary pages. If I were much youger I'd give it a go.

I, however, am too old and lazy to start with all that jazz, no matter what you think of my testes or lack thereof.

Why is it that everyone seems to agree there are no opposition newspapers in Thailand?

* looky here, for instance: http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/index.asp
,

[Wanderlust]

This subject is by no way my pet subject. Actually I do not have a pet subject. We have had this conversation before and I am not going to bore anyone by quoting it. All I am saying, and you most emphatically confirm this, that the present rags we now have in HH cover only positive things. I say again, that we lack a brave
weekly rag such as Phuket Gazette. Google it up. Read the reader questions they pose to authorities and admire the answers they get. Somehow they manage to get some real answers and still remain in business. *
They do not seem to worry about their laundry bill when grilling the authorities about controversial matters.
I am sure there would be an opening for a weekly rag in HH run by the way Phuket Gazette is run.
I am sure there would be an investment possibility to co-syndicate a weekly Hua Hin Gazette with PG just by running the local HH and C-A pages in the PG auxiliary pages. If I were much youger I'd give it a go.

I, however, am too old and lazy to start with all that jazz, no matter what you think of my testes or lack thereof.

Why is it that everyone seems to agree there are no opposition newspapers in Thailand?

* looky here, for instance: http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/index.asp,

I am going to bore everyone about this, I'm afraid, because in one post you slag off the existing publications -

HH needs a serious local rag that would even occasionally publish material that is not just sneaky editorial (text) advertising in support of the advertisers. Or bullshit stolen from the Net. Or sickly sweet, ultra-positive, namby-bamby, heart-warming stories of how the deaf-mute quadriplegic orphan regained his hearing through the operation performed by his seeing-eye dog on a dark and stormy night.

I’d like to see some solid info being squeezed from the City officials. I’d like to know what are the plans for Hua Hin growth (always assuming there are plans, zoning and such). I also would like to see either
of the rags we now have here to have such a service Phuket Gazette has. Readers send in their questions and PG finds the answers from the officials concerned. And PG appears not to steer away from controversial
issues, more power to them! They do shoot straight and ask also embarrassing questions.
But this, of course, would require real reporting, dedication and hard w*rk. It also would entail pulling ones nose out and losing all the brownie points, so I reckon this is ain’t gonna happen right quick.
More’s the pity.

- while in your last post and in the other thread, you claim you are not criticising , just 'that we lack a brave weekly rag such as Phuket Gazette.'
You constantly compare apples with oranges; the Phuket Gazzette is a weekly publication that people buy, whereas all the existing English language publications in the Hua Hin area are monthlies, and of those, as far as I know only Hua Hin Today is not free. I do not know who owns the PG but I suspect it is a Thai, and one with very good connections; as far as I know, none of the Hua Hin publications are Thai owned, or have particularly good connections in the area. The provinces they reside in also makes a huge difference to how they are received; Prachuap Kiri Khan and Phuket are vastly different, because the latter is absolutely dependent on the farang tourist dollar, while at present PKK is not. Hua Hin is not even really dependent on it, and so the criticisms made by farangs generally seem to be ignored, or at worst, punished. I am sure there are some sympathetic Thai ears to farang concerns in this area, but unless those concerns either match those of Thai people (i.e. vote winners) or are 'rewarding' to the person who acts on them, then nothing will be done.
It's all very well blaming national media for this or that in Western countries, but your repeated slagging off of the local publications here is both unfair and way off the mark, especially when they are free. I guess you have a go at your local free newspaper at home for not having a pop at your local politicians over some issue or other, or you complain that GQ doesn't run an expose on the Iraq war? Voicing our opinions as individuals on here about our concerns in Thailand is one thing, but publishing them in a magazine that depends on the goodwill of the hosts to stay in business is an entirely different matter - this is their country and we really do not have any rights. Just see how far you get if you stand outside the police station telling everyone that the police do not do their job properly, or are corrupt? That is effectively what you want the publications in Hua Hin to do, however you word it, and that is just plain stupid.

[HHTel]

Visited the PG website and what a breath of fresh air it was. Straight questions were being answered sensibly and in some cases actually being acted upon. Would love to see that work in HH. I agree with you Farang.

As for Wanderlust, for your info, from what I've found out about the new Mirror, it is entirely Thai owned, has some very influential people involved with very high connections. Also it is printed in both Thai and English so therefore should attract Thais as well as Farangs. Maybe we'll see a change in local reporting. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Farang]

snip, snip, snip
I am going to bore everyone about this, I'm afraid, because in one post you slag off the existing publications -
- while in your last post and in the other thread, you claim you are not criticising , just 'that we lack a brave weekly rag such as Phuket Gazette.'
You constantly compare apples with oranges; the Phuket Gazzette is a weekly publication that people buy, whereas all the existing English language publications in the Hua Hin area are monthlies, and of those, as far as I know only Hua Hin Today is not free. I do not know who owns the PG but I suspect it is a Thai, and one with very good connections; as far as I know, none of the Hua Hin publications are Thai owned, or have particularly good connections in the area. The provinces they reside in also makes a huge difference to how they are received; Prachuap Kiri Khan and Phuket are vastly different, because the latter is absolutely dependent on the farang tourist dollar, while at present PKK is not. Hua Hin is not even really dependent on it, and so the criticisms made by farangs generally seem to be ignored, or at worst, punished. I am sure there are some sympathetic Thai ears to farang concerns in this area, but unless those concerns either match those of Thai people (i.e. vote winners) or are 'rewarding' to the person who acts on them, then nothing will be done.
It's all very well blaming national media for this or that in Western countries, but your repeated slagging off of the local publications here is both unfair and way off the mark, especially when they are free. I guess you have a go at your local free newspaper at home for not having a pop at your local politicians over some issue or other, or you complain that GQ doesn't run an expose on the Iraq war? Voicing our opinions as individuals on here about our concerns in Thailand is one thing, but publishing them in a magazine that depends on the goodwill of the hosts to stay in business is an entirely different matter - this is their country and we really do not have any rights. Just see how far you get if you stand outside the police station telling everyone that the police do not do their job properly, or are corrupt? That is effectively what you want the publications in Hua Hin to do, however you word it, and that is just plain stupid.

I replied to your last similar attack in this manner:
"
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:09 pm
Wanderlust,

I thank you, my Learned Brother, for adopting a civil, cool style and attitude against my raving and ranting.
Much in your accustomed and admired manner. Let me reply to your post point by point.

Phuket Gazette (http://www.phuketgazette.net/) is a once-a-week paper costing 1560 baht / year
delivered to your home. So the subscription price is 30 baht per issue delivered. I do not know the
street price but would gather it is 40 – 50 baht.
If you read, what I was ranting, you’ll notice that I say we lack that kind of a rag here. I do not say
Observer or Today should be like one. I am saying we lack one.

And I do understand about the finances of once-a-month-paper as opposed to once-a-week rag,
that is being sold over the counter. (Well, Hua Hin Today costs 20 b)
I agree a monthly paper is geared to keep the advertiser happy, whereas a weekly rag is geared
to have a large reading audience, that supposedly keeps the advertisers happy.

As I do not pay the piper, nor should I call the tune. I also do understand the frame-work of running
a paper in an Asian country, the need of being discreet. I am not saying HHC-AO or HHTD should become
what I like. I am saying Hua Hin lacks a rag like I like. The one that would not go over the board
with issues but that would al least have the guts to politely ask of the Chief of the Police:

“Sir, opposite the police station there has been a traffic bottle-neck due to double-parked cars.
What are your plans to eradicate this obstacle and when shall the plans be put in action?â€

[DawnHRD]

I am afraid, Farang that I agree with WL. And no, this is not a mod backing another mod, this is my personal opinion. Foreigners have to tread very carefully in HH. One false move and it's Bye-Bye! I know this to be true from personal experience.

When Hua Hin Today first came out, I used to write the odd column for it (unpaid) & have a little insight into what the farang run media can & can't do in this area, because of that. WL has far more insight into the subject than I, and I concur with everything he's said. Maybe the Mirror, being wholly Thai owned will be different, let's wait & see.

The local authorities in this area have a lot more influence than you'd credit, and they don't seem to care much at all about farang's thoughts or input on matters concerning their administration & tackling of "problems". Again, I know this from experience.

Phuket or the Gazette may be different because of the reasons WL listed, or different ones, I don't know. What I do know is, as a farang, I wouldn't want to set up a newspaper here that questioned the local authorities' dealings with matters in their own province.

[Farang]

'
Et tu, Brute?

I'v said time and again that what we lack is a brave weekly rag. This is what I am saying.

I do understand the current local farang-owned and farang-run monthly farang-tongued rags must
work within the confines of rules dictated by the authorities. They have to play ball or lose it all.

I understand, believe me, I do. I just do not like that I've never seen them pushing the envelope, not once.
I've never read a single line in either of them except strictly toeing the party line.

Herein, of course, the fault be in beholder's eye, and I know it is more easy to criticize than do.
And I do understand I knoweth not all the Byzantine intrigues and Machiavellian machinations
inherent in running the rags in HH.

Nor do I know all the trials and tribulations in running a tailos's shop or a restaurant. I do, however, reserve
myself the right to express my opinion if I do not like the tutu tailor makes for me, or if the restaurant engages
Lucretia Borgia as their saucier. Much as I reserve myself the right to critique if I do not like what I read.

Why should the local rags be excluded from critique when no other ventures are? Please reply.

Once again: I wish that we in Hua Hin in addition to HHTD and HH-CAO would have a (brave) Thai-owned
weekly, Thai or falang-run rag in Angrit that would show some guts and would be a newspaper
instead of an advertising medium devoted to giving good ink to anyone taking big enough an advertisement.

Should we not agree to disagree and put end to this already?
,