Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

[JWWhite]

This is how narrow and risky the evacuation of the 12 kids and coach would be. A Thai Navy Seal lost his life yesterday night in the cave placing tanks inside the 3rd cave. RIP

[PeteC]

Hathai Pia
@HathaiPia
Thailand Correspondent at German Press Agency

Just in: one SEAL officer died from loss of air

The man has been identified as Navy Petty Officer 1st Class Saman Kunam (ret), who died on his way out of the cave after supplying one of the chambers with oxygen tanks.

Yes, very sad. The wife and her running group knew him as he ran in all the Thai Navy marathons over on our side of the Gulf. There is another Navy/Marine marathon this Sunday and it's expected there will be a memorial ceremony for him as part of it. Rest in Peace. Pete

[JWWhite]

This is how narrow and risky the evacuation of the 12 kids and coach would be. A Thai Navy Seal lost his life yesterday night in the cave placing tanks inside the 3rd cave. RIP

Just for clarity, this video is not from the #ThamLuang rescue effort. This video is actually from 2012. It shows divers cave diving in Fennimore, Wisconsin at Castle Rock Cave. Original link:

[HHTel]

It doesn't really matter where the vid is from. It serves to highlight the dangers in bringing the kids home.

[Nereus]

They seem to be pussy footing it around trying to decide the best way. The loss of the seal diver should leave no doubt just how dangerous it would be trying to bring them out underwater. We, of course, only have the press to rely on as to what is actually happening.

I am still of the view that drilling down is the best option. But the process should have started from day one when the boys were first located. That way they at least had another option on the cards. I have no idea just what sized drilling equipment is now available in Thailand, but I DO know that it will take longer to mobilise a rig to the site than it will take to drill down. There is modern survey instruments available that can survey and exactly pin point where they are.
I was involved with drilling an oil well in Northern Thailand back in the late 1980's, and the rig had to be bought in from overseas. Equipment and technology has advanced a lot since then, and it would surprise me if there is not suitable equipment now in Thailand.

I posted previously that Thai superstions may be a stumbling point, in as much that drilling into the cave may upset some "spirit". Or the MIB with the big ego might try and stop it! But something needs to be done NOW.

[PeteC]

The below is a very good supplement but difficult to read. Not impossible if you use ZOOM on your browser, but not really reader friendly on-line. The best approach would be to go out and get a hard copy of The Nation Weekend. It should be available everywhere this morning. Pete

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/ ... l/30349510

[JWWhite]

The first letters from the 12 boys & their coach: “The children say do not worry, everyone be strong. When we get out we want to eat lots of different food. When we’re out, we want to go straight home. Dear Teacher, please do not give a lot of work.


Here are more of the letters from boys and the coach:

Beau: Mom and dad, don’t worry. I was gone for 2 weeks but I’ll be back to help you out. I promise I’ll hurry.
Tee: Don’t worry, I’m really happy
Titan: Mom and dad, don’t worry. I’m fine. Please tell Yod to take me out to a fried chicken shop. Love you
Letter from Nik: “I love you father & mother and Toy. If we can get out, please can you take me to eat at a pan fried pork restaurant? I love you.”

Coach Aek: to all parents. The boys now are good. (They) have been treated nicely by the rescue team. I promise to do my best to take a good care of them. I'd like to thank all the supports and sincerely apologize to the parents.

[Nereus]

Trapped boys receive dive training as Elon Musk sends engineers to help with cave rescue

https://au.news.yahoo.com/trapped-boys- ... 21526.html

Tesla and SpaceX boss Elon Musk is sending engineers to Thailand to help rescue the trapped 12 boys and their football coach from a flooded cave.

While the boys have received basic diving training, local officials say they are not ready to dive out yet.
The Thai official leading the rescue attempt said the boys have been shown how to breathe through diving equipment, however the training is not substantial enough.

“The boys are not suitable. They cannot dive out at this time – the problem is the children’s readiness to dive,” said Narongsak Osottanakorn, the commander of the rescue mission.
He said there were no plans to pull the boys out overnight, but if more monsoon rains fell and water rose in the Tham Luang cave, rescuers may have to change their plans.

Mr Musk said he would be “happy to help if there is a way to do so”, after a Twitter user pleaded for him to help the group, who have been underground inside the cave in Chiang Rai for a fortnight after floodwater blocked their escape route.
Mr Musk said SpaceX and another of his firms, The Boring Company, had “advance ground penetrating radar” that is “pretty good at digging holes”.(I think that may be misquoted)

He also tweeted that a “1m diameter nylon tube” could be threaded through the cave network and inflated “like a bouncy castle”.

That, he said, should “create an air tunnel underwater against [the] cave roof”.
His engineers needed to be on site in Chiang Rai province to appreciate how complex the evacuation was, he said.
James Yenbamroong, who founded satellite communications provider mu Space Corp, tweeted that the “SpaceX team reached out to us today to help connect to Thai govt”.

He added: “For pumps, cave has narrowest 70cm cross section. For vertical drill, it’s about 1/2 mile down and tricky.”
Mr Musk’s team could help with location tracking, water pumping or battery power, the Thai government said.

Rescue teams, meanwhile, have thrashed through dense forest above the cave complex, looking for a place to start drilling a rescue shaft.

“We want to find the way down – I believe we are close,” Thanes Weerasiri, president of the Engineering Institute of Thailand, said.
His engineers are working with the army, exploring an area they believe to be just hundreds of metres from where the boys and their coach are trapped.

[JWWhite]

Diving through Tham Luang cave complex

[JWWhite]

From this morning press conference: Chiang Rai governor Narongsak Osottanakorn said that

“That there will be a 3-4 day window of favorable conditions to take the boys out and that water draining has been very successful.”

“The number of workers in the cave, especially in the third chamber, will be limited to conserve oxygen and prevent CO2 from poisoning the workers’ and boys’ blood.”

“We are worried that our men will faint. about the death of Saman, we don’t want to repeat that.”

“Our priority is filling the cave with oxygen.”

“The water level in area where the boys are could potentially rise to reduce their living area to less than 10 sq m.”

“The boys are talking, joking, they only have some small wounds. They don’t have proper food yet, just special food with extra protein to boost their energy.”

“Many people expect us to solve the problem in a perfect scenario. I can say we are trying to do our best. Nobody wants this operation to have any mistakes...I can’t guarantee there will not be any incidents. I can only use the word ‘trying."

“There are rescue teams rehearsing operations offsite. I must apologize that you will not see any of them.”

He acknowledged that he doesn’t have all the answers. “if this is a war, I am the supreme commander. In each mission, we have a mission commander. That person will oversee and order each action.”

He thanked the foreign experts. “they don’t know the kids, they don’t know anyone in Thailand, but they came anyway. We give them full credit for coming here and risking their lives in Tham Luang.”

He praised Saman, the SEAL who died. “we feel grateful to Saman’s family and that he came to help us. The loss of Saman motivates us to make decisions faster.”

[Nereus]

Musk team heading to Chiang Rai

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... chiang-rai

A nine-member engineering team dispatched by billionaire Elon Musk is preparing to help with efforts to rescue the 12 young footballers and their coach from the Tham Luang cave, officials said on Saturday.

One of the engineers was already in the country on holiday and two more were to arrive on Saturday evening, followed by the remaining six on Sunday, said Lt Gen Weerachon Sukondhapatipak, a deputy government spokesman.

No expenses would be charged to the government for their services, he added.

The development came as leaders of the rescue effort in Chiang Rai edged closer to a decision on whether it would be practical to bring the boys out over the next few days.

Conditions are "perfect" to stage an evacuation in the coming days before fresh rains and a possible rise in carbon dioxide further imperil the group, Chiang Rai governor Narongsak Osottanakorn said.

"Now and in the next three or four days, the conditions are perfect in terms of the water, the weather and the boys' health," he told reporters on Saturday afternoon. "We have to make a clear decision on what we can do."

While the oxygen level had stabilised, he warned levels of "carbon dioxide are another factor" in considering when to move the group -- in addition to impending rains which could cover much of the muddy ledge on which the group are sheltering.

"The water level may rise to the area where the children are sitting and make the area less than 10 square metres," he said, citing estimates from cave divers and experts.

Lt Gen Weerachon said the team sent by Mr Musk, best known for electric cars, batteries and tunnelling technology, might provide help such as trying to drill a tunnel to save the group. However, the inventor and entrepreneur has also floated some other ideas.

Mr Musk, who studied physics, has suggested using a double-layer Kevlar pressure pod or a long inflatable air sock to penetrate the narrow passageways and provide a rescue conduit. The tubes and pods are being built in the US, a spokesman said. Some equipment is travelling with the team and some will be express-shipped.

"No need for SCUBA mouthpiece or regulator," he wrote on Twitter about his suggested pods. "Training unnecessary & less susceptible to panic attack."
Mr Musk said the devices were being tested Friday afternoon in a pool with a subject who had never been scuba diving.

Any air sock or tube would have to be tough enough to withstand high water pressure -- potentially two tonnes of force at a depth of 4-5 metres -- and sharp rocks, Douglas Hart, a professor of mechanical engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told Bloomberg News.

A Thai Navy SEAL helping with the rescue operation died on Friday, underlining the dangers of navigating the flooded cave system even for those with experience. Cave diving is widely regarded as treacherous and the stranded group has little swimming ability, let alone any diving know-how.

A spokesman for Mr Musk said earlier that the billionaire’s companies may assist by trying to pinpoint the boys’ precise location using Space Exploration Technologies or Boring Co technology, pumping water or providing heavy-duty battery packs known as Tesla Powerwalls.

[HHTel]

There's no denying that the young Thai coach made a serious error of judgement. The warning notice was somewhat vague and apparently the caves were dry on entering then hit by flash floods.
The Phuket tragedy on the other hand was gross negligence. They were warned before putting to sea but the decision to go was based on the great Thai god --- BAHT.

[Nereus]

There's no denying that the young Thai coach made a serious error of judgement. The warning notice was somewhat vague and apparently the caves were dry on entering then hit by flash floods.
The Phuket tragedy on the other hand was gross negligence. They were warned before putting to sea but the decision to go was based on the great Thai god --- BAHT.

Yes, and it has been reported that charges were being considered against the coach, but a legal opinion stated that there was no "intent", as opposed to the boat captain whom had both warnings, and supposedly a licence to be there.

[Nereus]

I posted previously that Thai superstitions may be a stumbling point, in as much that drilling into the cave may upset some "spirit". Or the MIB with the big ego might try and stop it! But something needs to be done NOW.

I post this without bias, just as general interest.

Spirited away

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/specia ... rited-away

The search for 12 boys and their football coach trapped in Tham Luang cave in Chiang Rai ended on Tuesday when they were finally found, 10 full days after going missing. The Moo Pa Academy football team stole the media spotlight not only in Thailand but internationally, with people joining together to pray for the safe return of the lost boys and their leader.

With each passing day presenting no sign of the boys, social media came alive with speculation as to why the rescue team had yet to find even a small trace of them.

Some started to suggest the reason the boys had yet to be found was due to holy spirits residing in the cave.
Online commentators criticised the rescue team for failing to ask permission from the holy spirits before entering the sacred premises. They claimed the reason the boys had yet to be found was due to the fact the team had acted disrespectfully.

Spirit mediums also arrived on the scene, offering their spiritual powers to track down the team. Some said the boys were dead, while others said they were simply stuck inside.

Today, superstition persists in rural areas of Thailand. Belief in spirits has long been part of Thai society, and continues to shape the way people live -- the case of the Chiang Rave cave boys being one example.

PRE-HISTORIC BELIEFS

Since before the foundation of civilisation, Thailand and its surrounding territories have held strong beliefs in animism.

Assistant Professor Pipad Krajaejun, a lecturer from Thammasat University's Department of History in the Faculty of Liberal Arts, explained that pre-historic people used ghosts and holy spirits to explain phenomenon that escaped their understanding.

Back then, around 10,000 years ago, people lived in caves or around cliffs. Their lives involved lots of interaction with their natural habitat. Besides living purposes, people would also use caves as venues to perform sacred ceremonies or spirit worship.

"Back in the day, people used caves as their homes and the place to perform sacred rituals, such as blessing ceremonies, before the men went out to hunt for animals," said Mr Pipad. "Since then, caves have been used and seen as places which have a certain spiritual connection."

Around 2,500 years ago, people started to move away from caves and use the jungle as their home instead as they learned how to build houses from wood.

The cave then started to be used as a place where coffins were placed, drawing a strategic link between the earthly world and the after life.
"The caves found in the western mountain ranges of Thailand from Kanchanaburi up to the Mae Hong Son area are filled with archaeological evidence," said Mr Pipad. "There are many coffins found there -- for example, at Pang Ma Pa in Mae Hong Son. These show that people here have always had a strong holy association with nature."

IN THE DARK

The cave is seen as the "land of the dead" in Thailand, a myth passed on for several generations. Since caves represent a passage to the unknown, as dark and usually unexplored areas, many people believe they are gateways to the after-life.

When the rescue team launched their mission, internet critics asked the residing holy spirit for forgiveness before entering, since she was the one "hiding" the lost 13. According to them, the only way to solve this problem was to follow local beliefs.

"Since the cave is a dark unknown place, no one really wants to go in to explore it, especially locals who fear they might enter the after-life. Some even see the cave as the connecting point to the holy Naga house since it has water inside. It's only natural that people are afraid of the dark and an unknown place that they don't understand," Mr Pipad said.

Tham Luang cave is located on Doi Nang Non, a mountain whose name translates to "female lying down" due to the shape of the range resembling a resting woman. As a result of this, many people believe it is sacred and protected by a holy spirit.

In the Cha-am district of Phetchaburi province, Khao Nang Panthurat is another mountain that locals believe is protected by a holy spirit since the shape of it also resembles a female resting on the ground.
"Elements of the spiritual world are used as tools to explain what people can't explain with proper reasoning," said Mr Pipad.
"This is why there are many people who believe that the disappearance of the 13 students and coach are due to invisible powers."

EXPANDING UNDERSTANDING

One of the challenges facing the rescue team was the lack of knowledge of the cave and its geography. The only local knowledge stemmed from urban legends and verbal warnings shared across generations that human beings should not enter the cave.

Chaiporn Siripornpibul, a geologist who has been involved with the rescue mission, told Spectrum that most Thai caves haven't been explored properly. Knowledge about caves thus remains quite limited.
"I'm one of the few experts who has explored Tham Luang thoroughly as part of my research, along with other caves in Thailand. Caves in Thailand have only ever been explored for tourism purposes -- not for scientific purposes," he said.

"However, the situation is much better nowadays. I'm training 10 new young people to do more research on this issue. This way, we'll have a better understanding in that field … I've been contacted by many national parks over Thailand to explore and do research on the caves."

Mr Chaiporn advises adventure lovers to look out for warning signs, particularly in the case of water caves like Tham Luang: "People should avoid going inside and passing the limit point recommended by the national park office. And if you get yourself into the same situation as the boys and their coach, please find the higher ground and stay calm."

The 13 boys were among the few people to have ever entered Tham Luang cave.

"The urban legends about the cave are not completely useless," Mr Pipad said.
"Even though it sounds strange in today's age, these stories are used to protect people not just from holy spirits, but from accidents that may occur inside like in this case."

Although Thailand is known as a Buddhist country, animism has shaped Thai culture.
The examples of social media commentary speak clearly to the fact that people still tend to revert to beliefs that cannot be explained scientifically.

To outsiders, it may seem people are being credulous, but in a way, these beliefs are what hold Thai people and culture together.
"[Belief in ghosts and holy spirits] can give people peace of mind when people are trying to find the reason for something that doesn't make any sense to them," said Mr Pipad.

"People nowadays only want to use science to explain things, but we shouldn't forget that our tradition was built on animist beliefs. These two things should go hand in hand with each other since it makes us who we are today.

"When the rescue team couldn't locate the lost 13, it was spiritual beliefs that gave people the comfort and support that they needed but couldn't find in any other way."

wild idea: A Thai navy officer carries a pig's head to worship celestial guardians and spirits as rescue operations for the soccer team and their coach got underway on Wednesday. Photo: EPA

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[Nereus]

Is the Thai cave rescue already underway? The clues that suggest it might be

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thai-cave-res ... 16543.html

A rescue mission appears imminent as dozens of divers arrive at the Thai cave where 12 boys and their soccer coach have been trapped for two weeks.

Security forces have closed down the media camp at the Chiang Rai site, with security screens placed around the cave area where the group remain trapped, following unconfirmed reports of a “buddy dive” planned for this weekend.
A row of ambulances have arrived on scene, while at least four helicopters remain on stand-by.

The boys, aged 11 to 16, and their 25-year-old coach became stranded when they went exploring in the cave after a practice game. Monsoon flooding cut off their escape and prevented rescuers from finding them for almost 10 days.

Thai authorities demanded media and non-essential personnel on Sunday to relocate from the camp site at the base of the cave. The order came a day after the rescue mission chief said conditions were perfect for the evacuation to begin, and as fears mount that coming rains could thwart the plan.

“Assessing the situation now, it is necessary to evacuate the area for the rescue operation,” Mae Sai police commander Komsan Sa-ardluan told the media over a loudspeaker.

“Everyone who is not involved with the operations has to get out of the area immediately.
“From the situation assessment, we need to use the area to help victims.”

Reporters have also been warned against taking photos during the rescue.

Officials did not clarify whether the complex effort to dive the team out of the kilometres-long Tham Luang cave in northern Thailand had commenced.

At the start of the weekend the head of the mission Narongsak Osottanakorn said that the boys were not ready to make the trip, but later Saturday he suggested that there was a window to try.

“Now and in the next three or four days, the conditions are perfect [for evacuation] in terms of the water, the weather and the boys’ health,” Mr Narongsak told reporters.

There is discussion within the Thai diving community that a rescue mission began about 3am local time, although authorities have yet to confirm this, Seven News chief reporter Chris Reason told Weekend Sunrise from Chiang Rai.
Reason described watching as volunteer divers communicated with colleagues on the inside of the cave, appearing to be telling them the rescue mission was underway.

Veteran rescue diver Butch Hendrick, who is president of Lifeguard Systems in the US, told Sunrise this morning his contacts said the boys have been taught diving signals, to use their hands to communicate.

They have also been shown how to use the regulators and oxygen masks as they try to make their way out of this cave system, which Mr Hendrick added the Thai government has confirmed.