Electric Vehicles (EV) Thread

[STEVE G]

I haven't driven 400 miles in one day for at least five years!

Neither have I, but I’m sure there are some that do and hence why they would need that sort of range or at minimum, viable options for a quick (30 minute) high-speed top-up.

Yes, to be practical an EV needs to be optimised for the range that you are using it for. It doesn't make sense paying for a huge battery pack if you're not driving long distances and it would also make a vehicle much heavier than it needs to be.

[Dannie Boy]

When you think about the advances made in EV’s over the past 5 years and then ramp that up a bit for incremental advances, the future should look good and within that timescale there will hopefully be significant advances in Solid State battery technology, increasing range and reducing weight - hopefully that’s my timescale to buy one

[Khundon1975]

I haven't driven 400 miles in one day for at least five years!

STEVE G we drive from the Far South coast to the Lake District around 4 times a year. The journey is around 350 miles or so and we stay at a family farm that is literally out in the middle of nowhere. We would normally go out in the evening for dinner, so just those 2 journeys would mean we would have a completely flat battery pack and would need a full charge overnight or at least stop somewhere on the M5/M6 for a few hours, to put in a charge, something I’m not prepared to do at the moment.
I also drive the wife to Heathrow around 3 times a year, a round journey of around 300 miles, so would have to ensure I had a full charge before setting off. As she tends to be using the car running kids around before I take her to airport, she would have used a third of the charge before we set off.
When the charging infrastructure is better and the range problems are sorted, then we’d definitely look seriously at getting an electric 7 seater in the future.

[Nereus]

Something that is being overlooked here; and that is not everybody lives in a private house with parking. Maybe not so much in Hua Hin, but in Bangkok there are literally thousands of people living in Condos and apartments. They may well have a parking space, but for sure there will not be any facility to plug into a charger.

The complex that I live in has over 500 units, each one of them entitled by law to 1 parking space. The extra electrical supply alone would entail a complete rethink.

And if the complete idiots that "manage" my Condo are any indication, I will be long gone before it ever changes!

[GroveHillWanderer]

We had considered an electric car, but didn’t like the small models in offer, mainly due to the short range.
We have the room to charge a car at home but in the end went for cars that we were familiar with.
Maybe when the time comes to change them, range will have been increased to somewhere around 400 miles, that would definitely make a medium sized hatchback electric car very attractive. As for an electric seven seater, it would have to have a range of 400miles before we’d consider one.

It looks like we may not be too far away from that, even with current battery technology. Tesla has already announced that their next generation Roadster model will have a range of over 1000 km (620 miles).

There is one new battery technology under development (known as "refillable" or "flow" batteries) that could give electric cars a range of over 5,000 km (3,000 miles). Would that do it for you?

https://thedriven.io/2019/02/18/refilla ... niversity/

[Khundon1975]

We had considered an electric car, but didn’t like the small models in offer, mainly due to the short range.
We have the room to charge a car at home but in the end went for cars that we were familiar with.
Maybe when the time comes to change them, range will have been increased to somewhere around 400 miles, that would definitely make a medium sized hatchback electric car very attractive. As for an electric seven seater, it would have to have a range of 400miles before we’d consider one.

It looks like we may not be too far away from that, even with current battery technology. Tesla has already announced that their next generation Roadster model will have a range of over 1000 km (620 miles).

There is one new battery technology under development (known as "refillable" or "flow" batteries) that could give electric cars a range of over 5,000 km (3,000 miles). Would that do it for you?

https://thedriven.io/2019/02/18/refilla ... niversity/

Some interesting technology there mate, but I doubt I’ll still be driving if, or when, that system becomes mainstream.

Tesla do now make a large SUV, but I’d need a RHD model and the price after importing one from the US, would be a bit too high, even if their models don’t deprecate as fast as many other cars do here, I can’t see me getting one any time soon.

Nereus raises the interesting point about charging points, or the lack of them.
We have more than enough room to park 2 cars at home to charge them, but millions in the UK don’t and that’s going to be a real problem for them, especially as Mrs May has set a date to outlaw new diesel cars in 20 years or so.
That only leaves petrol, electric or hydrogen cars for UK drivers. Yes, petrol engines are getting smaller and more efficient, but downsizing engines in large cars, just doesn’t sit right with me and I like the torque that a Diesel engine gives me at low revs, even from a mid sized engine.

Still, I shouldn’t think of myself, but think of my son and what sort of transport will be available when he starts to drive. I suspect by then, batteries will have moved on and he’d be happy with the range electric cars have to offer by then.

[STEVE G]

Something that is being overlooked here; and that is not everybody lives in a private house with parking. Maybe not so much in Hua Hin, but in Bangkok there are literally thousands of people living in Condos and apartments. They may well have a parking space, but for sure there will not be any facility to plug into a charger.

The complex that I live in has over 500 units, each one of them entitled by law to 1 parking space. The extra electrical supply alone would entail a complete rethink.

And if the complete idiots that "manage" my Condo are any indication, I will be long gone before it ever changes!

Yes, that would stop you having one but it doesn't effect me, what I want is available now in Europe from several companies, you just can't get them in Thailand.
( Ironically, when I'm in Europe I have a similar problem with living in a city centre with no parking but in that situation, I don't have a car at all and use all the other forms of transport available. )

[musungu]

What you say Steve is absolutely correct. I see BMW and JLR have joined forces to share costs for the RD required to bring electric cars to the sale rooms - this will not be the first cost sharing merger with the big boys either.

[VincentD]

Saw the new Nissan Leaf parked behind the showroom when I went to get my car serviced. Looks nice! But range is still limited to mainly city use and the showroom people didn't have a lot of info on it.

The complex that I live in has over 500 units, each one of them entitled by law to 1 parking space. The extra electrical supply alone would entail a complete rethink.

Nereus, while you may be entitled by law to one parking space per unit, the condos are only required to provide physical parking space for 40% of the units. (Went condo shopping with my cousin not so long ago) I think he's given up on the idea of getting a condo anytime soon as he's still in Blighty.

[Nereus]

Toyota Goes Electric Starting In 2020: Announces Massive EV Offensive

https://insideevs.com/news/353600/toyot ... 3JICKQ12QA

Toyota finally decided to go all-electric from 2020 on with a new BEV platform and six global BEV models including crossovers, SUVs and more.

Toyota, after years of neglecting of all-electric cars, announced today a huge offensive with a new platform, global models of various type as well as ultra-compact and walking area BEVs.

The new plan envisions rollout of all-electric vehicles from 2020 (starting with Toyota C-HR BEV and Toyota IZOA BEV twins in China) and Toyota says that by 2025, all models to have electrified version (at least hybrid).

In the early 2020s, Toyota would like to introduce 10 BEV models worldwide, including six global models, based on e-TNGA platform.
If we look at the general plan, you can notice however that expected BEV sales are low compared to hybrid and plug-in hybrid share. Interestingly, Toyota doesn't see much market share for hydrogen fuel cell cars by 2050 either.

"Much work lies ahead to achieve the popularization of BEVs. Specifically, we will be focusing on vehicle development and the stable supply, improved durability, and reuse of batteries.

We are steadily preparing a framework to respond thoroughly to the challenge, putting all the pieces in place, including the creation of new business models.
Working in an extensive and open manner, we are collaborating with partners as we strive to contribute to a better society."

Six global BEV models
One of the boldest announcement in the Toyota press conference is six all-new all-electric models, which the Japanese company intends to develop in the coming years using its e-TNGA platform.

Those models will be developed with partners or on its own.
The list includes:
Compact car (with Suzuki and Toyota's Daihatsu subsidiary)
Medium crossover
Medium sedan
Medium minivan
Medium SUV (with Subaru)
Large SUV
……………………………………………………………………………………………………….

https://insideevs.com/news/352610/tesla ... rice-musk/

Tesla Pickup Truck To Be Priced Below $50,000, Makes Ram Seem Puny

The target starting price is even lower.
This is a real shocker. In fact, it's a bit hard to believe.

According to Tesla CEO Elon Musk, the upcoming Tesla truck will have a target price of under $50,000. This seems an impossible figure given the fact that other Tesla products (aside from the Model 3) start at a price that's much higher. However, Musk stated this in a recent Ride The Lightning Podcast:
“You should be able to buy a really great truck for $49k or less.”

Musk added that the capabilities of the Tesla truck will be unmatched, though its appearance might be a bit over-the-top for a typical truck buyer.
If that price turns out to be true, then yes indeed the Tesla truck will beat the Rivian R1T and electric trucks from Ford and others, too.

In the past, Musk commented on the abilities of the Ram truck, stating that it'll be more or less toy-like compared to the Tesla truck. Range of the Tesla truck is expected to be around 500 miles. The unveiling is set for sometime later this year.

In top-level trim, it should boast a range of between 400 and 500 miles, possibly more. As one might suspect, it will be all-wheel drive with a motor for each axle. Musk also noted that the suspension will dynamically adjust according to its load. Being electric and a truck means it will have lots of torque. While we can't say how much, exactly, we can point out that Musk once tweeted that it could tow 300,000 pounds.

Regarding the look, there's been any number of renders of a possible Tesla truck produced over the past couple of years, but we've yet to see the actual truck to really have an idea of what it will look like, though Musk does say it'll have a certain sort of sci-fi appearance.

Check out other renders of the Tesla truck below:

[oakdale160]

The other HUGE innovation is the introduction of electric bikes and scooters. THere are now 200 million on the roads in China, that means that one Chinese person in seven has one. In several countries they are classified as bikes and no license or insurance is needed. Top speed in US and Canada is 32k/hr (20mph) which would not appeal to many Thai riders. I see that in US and Canada they are selling for less than $1000US and in the UK for under 600 pounds.

[STEVE G]

The other HUGE innovation is the introduction of electric bikes and scooters. THere are now 200 million on the roads in China, that means that one Chinese person in seven has one. In several countries they are classified as bikes and no license or insurance is needed. Top speed in US and Canada is 32k/hr (20mph) which would not appeal to many Thai riders. I see that in US and Canada they are selling for less than $1000US and in the UK for under 600 pounds.

Electric bicycles are great, I've used them in Europe and it's like cycling on the flat with a following wind all the time. In the city where I work, it's the fastest way of getting around because you can use them on cycle paths, in parks and pedestrian areas where you couldn't go with a motorcycle or car.

[PeteC]

Video link

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-env ... king-money

[Nereus]

Sweden's Electric Car Boom Is Under Threat From Power Crunch

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sweden-apos-e ... 00951.html

(Bloomberg) -- Sweden’s ambitious plan to drastically cut emissions from transport by bringing millions of electric cars onto the road could be derailed by a lack of power capacity for new charging stations in major cities.

An increase in government grants sent sales of electric cars surging by 253% in the first five months this year, but the rally could be over before it’s really started. Demand for electricity in Stockholm and other cities is outgrowing capacity in local grids, forcing new charging networks to compete with other projects from housing to subway lines to get hooked up.

To reach a government target of becoming carbon neutral by 2045, the industry group Power Circle says the Nordic region’s biggest economy needs to add to about 2.5 million plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles by the end of the next decade from around 70,000 today. While many of these will be charged at home for shorter journeys, a network of stations for longer trips and professional drivers from taxis to delivery vans is also needed.

“To get people to take the plunge and want to buy an electric car they shouldn’t be forced to take long detours to find a charging station,” Tobias Henmark, head of the Swedish unit of Fortum Charge and Drive, which operates 740 fast chargers in the Nordic region. “Right now there is a tendency to cover up the deficiency by increasing the cost of capacity, and that would make it impossible to build charging infrastructure.”

The Swedish government has said it wants to halt the sales of all fossil-fueled cars by 2030 to cut emissions from transport by 70%. To be able to do that it is counting on significant electrification of private cars by further increasing subsidies after introducing a bonus last year.

“Above all, it’s in a rush,” Isabella Lovin, Swedish minister for climate and energy said. “Many of the cars being sold during the next decade will still be driven in 2045.”

For the rise in electric vehicles to be manageable despite the lack of power capacity, Power Circle suggests that owners should receive incentives not to charge and even send power back to the grid during morning and afternoon peak hours. If enough cars in the future are connected and willing to share their batteries with the grid, more electric vehicles would lessen the capacity problem instead of making it worse.

“Electric cars can make or break the grid,” said Johanna Lakso, chief executive officer for the group. “When we are about to roll out the infrastructure why not be smart about it and use it to support the power networks?”

Despite the big jump in sales this year, Sweden is behind its neighbor Norway when it comes to total numbers of electric cars. The oil-rich nation had more than 10 times as many such vehicles registered by the end of May, making it one of the biggest markets in the world. Lower taxes and other perks such as free parking and a special permit to drive in bus lanes have boosted sales.

Sweden’s total sales of 6,694 electric vehicles in the five months through May are tiny on a European scale. About 500,000 are expected to be sold in the region this year. Shipments rose by 40% in the first quarter, mainly driven by Germany with a third of all new cars, according to a report by BloombergNEF.

Still, less than 4% of all new cars sold in Germany and the rest of Europe was solely powered by batteries, compared with more than a fifth in Sweden and as much as 56% in Norway.

In Norway, an electric car will cost about the same as similar petrol versions as taxes are set up to level out price differences in favor of the more expensive battery-powered cars. In Sweden, even with a 60,0000-krona ($6,356) subsidy introduced last year, electric cars will still cost almost twice as much as petrol-fueled ones because general vehicle taxes are much lower.

While Sweden was still exporting more than 10% of its electricity output last year, its aging grid is struggling to ship the commodity to where it is most needed. Demand in the main cities has grown a lot quicker than expected. It can take as long as 10 years to build new cables and that means Stockholm is not expected to be able to significantly boost power use until 2030, according to local grid manager Ellevio AB.

[Nereus]

Electricity Billionaire Is Building the Tesla of Thailand

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/elect ... 44461.html


(Bloomberg) -- It’s the epitome of a closed circuit: the utility helping power one of Southeast Asia’s biggest cities is building electric cars, batteries and charging stations for the nascent market, and then supplying the juice to keep them all running.

Thailand billionaire Somphote Ahunai envisions his Energy Absolute Pcl as a titan of EVs even though there are less than 1,500 battery-powered vehicles in the country. That’s about 0.004% of registered vehicles through December.

Southeast Asia has been slow to adopt passenger EVs because of high sticker prices and a predilection for two-wheelers, but Thailand’s government sees them as a way to ease Bangkok’s air pollution and fortify an automotive industry generating about 12% of gross domestic product. Energy Absolute is using subsidies and tax breaks to put 5,000 EVs on the road by next year, backed by 700-plus charging stations. It’s also planning a $3 billion factory to make lithium-ion batteries.

“The trend is clear: it’s time for Thailand to stop being complacent and pursue higher technology to drive economic growth,” said Somphote, the utility’s founder and chief executive officer. “EV technology opens up new opportunities for success by new players.”

Energy Absolute, Thailand’s second-largest electricity generating company by market capitalization, unveiled its Mine Mobility passenger EV at this year’s Bangkok Motor Show and immediately received more than 4,500 orders. The car is priced at about 1.2 million baht ($38,000), cheaper than a comparable Nissan Leaf or Kia Soul EV.

Yet the car will head out on the highway just as EV showrooms start getting crowded with foreign models.

Carmakers are chasing growth in Southeast Asia as combined sales in China, the U.S. and Europe decline amid the trade war and Brexit. The Bloomberg World Auto Manufacturers Index is down more than 15% in the past 12 months.

BYD Co., the Chinese manufacturer backed by Warren Buffett, said last year it planned to deliver 1,100 cars to Bangkok as part of a deal with the government to become the biggest supplier of pure EVs.

BMW AG, Nissan Motor Co. and Daimler AG’s Mercedes Benz unit all announced plans to produce and assemble EVs locally, researcher BloombergNEF said.

Energy Absolute also will try to overcome local preferences for cheaper motorcycles and scooters. Thais buy about 2 million motorcycles a year, according to statistics compiled by BNEF.

“EVs will be a business that provides new growth for the company,” said Suwat Sinsadok, a utilities analyst at Finansia Syrus Securities Pcl in Bangkok. “This is the right business strategy, and they’re getting into it at the right time.”

Energy Absolute markets the Mine Mobility as the first EV designed and built in Thailand. The five-seat hatchback can travel as many as 200 kilometers (124 miles) on a single charge, according to the company.

That’s less than a Tesla Inc. Model 3 or BYD e6 but enough to convince a group of five taxi unions to order 3,500 cars for metropolitan Bangkok. The group chose Energy Absolute because it promised the earliest delivery.

“We’ve been trying to go electric for the past two years,” said Theppanom Phinsuwan, the group’s representative. “We want to be first to the cars because we think EV is the way the world is heading.”

Using EVs would cut drivers’ expenses by half, increasing their profit and allowing them to pay off their car loans sooner, Theppanom said.

Taxi drivers typically spend between 500 and 600 baht per day running a gas guzzler like the ubiquitous green-and-yellow Toyota Corolla Altis. Charging an EV would cost about 200-300 baht.

Car-service providers—such as taxi and rental-car companies—are the initial targets for Mine Mobility, said Thanapat Suksuthamwong, the subsidiary’s managing director. There’s no better way to showcase the technology than to have people who drive long distances each day do it, he said.

“Public and private fleet operators have the potential to drive the uptake of EVs,” said Caroline Chua, a BNEF analyst covering renewable energy.

The batteries inside Mine Mobility cars will come from a lithium-ion battery plant now being built. If the factory reaches full capacity, it would catapult Thailand into third place globally in production.

Energy Absolute rivals Tesla in trying to integrate all stages of the EV life cycle: electricity generation, battery production, car manufacturing and charging-point installation. Tesla owners can recharge their cars at home with power generated by solar panels and use batteries made with Panasonic Corp.

Tesla doesn’t have a sales operation in Thailand, and the few models seen are delivered from places like Hong Kong, meaning they’re subject to import taxes that can double the sticker price.

Thailand is Southeast Asia’s first country to offer incentives for EV manufacturers and to reduce taxes on sales of their cars. Companies can get corporate tax breaks for eight years, exemptions from import duties on machinery and parts, and reductions in excise taxes.

That combination of policies and incentives is the most advanced in the region, according to BNEF. Indonesia said June 19 it will scrap taxes on imports of electric and hybrid vehicles by month’s end.

Energy Absolute has three EV models planned—the midsize Mine Mobility promised for next year, and then a cheaper compact and a pricier sports car. It’s building a 200 million-baht factory that can assemble as many as 10,000 cars starting later this year.

Yet there’s still a long road ahead to reach that volume, considering there were just 1,454 registered EVs—including buses and motorcycles—in the country as of December. By comparison, China is projected to sell triple that amount just in passenger EVs every day this year, according to BNEF calculations.

“Our goal is to introduce EV cars to the Thai market,” said Amorn Sapthaweekul, Energy Absolute’s deputy CEO.
Energy Absolute has about 400 charging stations around Bangkok and plans to install another 300 this year. It wants to have at least one charging point every five kilometers.

The EA Anywhere app allows EV drivers to locate and reserve spots for charging.

Even as those domestic plans take shape, Energy Absolute plots its expansion as nearby countries—including Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines—set targets for adopting passenger EVs. Laos and Myanmar also are of interest.

“Thailand will be the leader of EV technology in this region,” Somphote said. “We’re first, and that should give us a head start to develop the technology.”