Thailand Immigration: TM30 24 hour reporting thread

[Big Boy]

Yes, it looks a possibility (I'd missed that link )

Mind you, I honestly think Mrs BB would not be happy with it, and tell me to drive her to Immigration. Just the initial registration would be too much for her.

I was right. Mrs BB says we'll drive to Immigration. Registration looked pretty straight forward, but there's a Thai Soap on the TV (isn't there always )

An update on this. Mrs BB had a change of mind. Registered her yesterday evening (took about 10 minutes), approved today - quite painless. Had a look at what is needed, this will take a maximum of 2 minutes after every trip by the looks of it. Not a huge intrusion into my life. If it's any worse than that, I'll let you know when I get home on Sunday.

[caller]

The petition is sure getting plenty of coverage. It was in the paper edition of the Bangkok Post today with a senior immigration officer admitting that the TM30 thing was 'problematic'.

Lot of coverage here as well, including information about how it came about and who is involved.

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news- ... qpFEc4LAoo

[Nereus]

TM30 a shot in the foot

https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opi ... n-the-foot

At a time when the tourism industry needs a shot in the arm, perhaps the last thing the Immigration Bureau should do is resuscitate an outdated rule to make the lives of foreigners and Thais more difficult -- but that's what the bureau has done with the dreaded TM30 form.

The TM30 is a notification form for Thai landlords providing accommodation to foreigners to report their presence to the authorities within 24 hours, and every time the foreigner returns to the country.

Besides accommodation owners, the TM30 rule requires foreigners to report their nightly whereabouts, as and when they move around the country away from their primary residence, again within 24 hours.

The regulation has been on the books for 40 years, though it has not been enforced strictly until an abrupt decision by the powers-that-be at the Immigration Bureau on March 25 this year.

The regulation, Article 37 of the 1979 Immigration Act, is ostensibly to boost national security. Given increasing risks from terrorism, the bureau says it has come across cases of foreign criminals making extended stays in-country; hence the crackdown.

Terrorism and criminality are undoubtedly legitimate concerns and the bureau's heart is in the right place in wanting to prevent Thailand from becoming a safe haven for villains. Nevertheless, it is questionable whether the majority of people caught up in the TM30 dragnet -- Thai landlords, foreign retirees, foreigners married to Thais, and foreigners working in fields providing much-needed expertise, among others -- constitute a clear and present danger to national security.

Indeed, most have already been vetted by Immigration, and so should surely be on the list of "good guys", with reference to the bureau's slogan of "Good guys in, bad guys out". Long-term foreign stayers in Thailand, besides facing scrutiny by Immigration on an annual basis must already report their address every 90 days. Surely the current paperwork is already more than adequate to keep track of them?

Just last week, Acting Immigration Chief Pol Lt Sompong Chingduang declared that the TM30 process would continue to be imposed strictly, but that it could be done easily online or via an app. Sadly, neither the app nor the website appear to work reliably.

For expats, spending even one night away from a reported residence, including at a hospital, also requires a new TM30 form to be submitted within 24 hours. This stringent requirement has meant that many expats say they have simply stopped travelling around the country, with their own families or with friends from overseas.

Long-term expats were already having a horrendous year even before TM30 as regulations were also changed for applications for retirement visas. In exasperation at the enforcement of TM30, a group of foreigners in the Northeast launched a petition on Saturday calling for the requirement to be reviewed.

Some of the group's points are valid and merit serious attention from the authorities, specifically that: "Technology has become better and better, and reporting addresses on paper, in person, is not efficient and counterproductive."

Perhaps it would be better if the whole TM30 palaver were quietly reviewed, as the acting immigration chief appeared to hint at when questioned by the Bangkok Post on Monday, to make it "good guy"-friendly.

This blanket policy affecting the law-abiding majority will likely do little to help track down the "bad guys" -- terrorists and other criminals. And instead of the shot in the tourism industry arm that Thailand could really do with, TM30 seems more like a shot in the foot.

[Governor]

I've just returned from a trip to Pattaya, Bangkok and Phuket and thought I'd test the water re reporting my return home yesterday.
Went to Bluport yesterday afternoon, fairly busy after the holiday but only waited about 20 minutes, the IO seem quite surprised that I had presented myself, though I did say I was seeking advice, she confirmed that I wasn't required to represent myself after travelling within the Kingdom, only when I returned from overseas.

[Dannie Boy]

I've just returned from a trip to Pattaya, Bangkok and Phuket and thought I'd test the water re reporting my return home yesterday.
Went to Bluport yesterday afternoon, fairly busy after the holiday but only waited about 20 minutes, the IO seem quite surprised that I had presented myself, though I did say I was seeking advice, she confirmed that I wasn't required to represent myself after travelling within the Kingdom, only when I returned from overseas.

Which is the complete opposite to what I was told by the Tha Yang office - after returning from overseas trip, they told me there was no need to do the 24 hour reporting!!


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[Governor]

Which is the complete opposite to what I was told by the Tha Yang office - after returning from overseas trip, they told me there was no need to do the 24 hour reporting!!

Which makes the whole thing so frustrating, the complete lack of continuity with local offices, and even individual officers, being free to interpret the rules as they deem appropriate.

[Dannie Boy]

Couldn’t agree more - how on earth can we comply when there is so much inconsistency


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[Nereus]

Mods please delete if it breaches T&C's:
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
It is unbelievable some of the comments being posted. The old chestnut "if you don't like it go back to your own country". Then there is the clown that goes to great lengths to explain how it is in Russia!

As far as I know Sébastien is doing this "pro bono", so if you don't like it, then shut the ***** up!

https://www.richardbarrow.com/2019/07/s ... rticle-37/

[limbu]

I did the 24 hour notification at Bluport. Handed the officer a completed TM30. She tapped at her computer wrote on a slip of paper and stapled it into my passport. The slip confirms my address in Hua Hin and today's date. It took 10 minutes in all.
I arrived from Kuala Lumpur yesterday. For the first time, instead of taking an image of my thumbs, both hands were fully scanned. Thai passengers also.

[buksida]

Immigration in Chiang Mai continue crackdown on TM30 infringements
Thai immigration continue to roll out their nationwide crackdown on people failing to report foreigners staying at private addresses with 24 hours, as per the controversial TM30 form, which also applies to resident expats moving around the country for business or pleasure.

A house owner in Ton Pao sub-district of San Kamphaeng has been fined after a Canadian came to stay at their property. The owners of the property allegedly failed to report his arrival.

Fines for breaches of the TM 30 and Article 38 immigration rules are between 1,200-1,600 baht.

A group of expats, representing foreigners living in Thailand for many years, has prepared a petition for affected expats to sign, before they present it to Thai Immigration and government officials. They are requesting changes to the enforcement of the controversial TM30 form. The petition now has 2581 signatures.

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/ ... ringements

https://reform-thai-immigration.com/


I still don't get why they're fining both the house owner and farang for the same infringement ... oh, wait a minute, how much was that Chinese sub again?

[Nereus]

What's the answer to this? My guess is that the police would dream up some charge about illegal camping!
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Confusion over new law

https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/postbag

A question for immigration. If I go out four-wheel driving with my friends and camp out overnight in my tent for a few days, or I enter Thailand in a truck with a camper on the back and stay in it all the time, am I breaking the immigration rules as far as TM30 reporting is concerned? A Camper

[Nereus]

https://reform-thai-immigration.com/

3,121 signatures so far according to their counter.

[handdrummer]

All the signers will be deported and their underwear confiscated.

[Nereus]

Furore over TM30 forms

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/sp ... tm30-forms

Special report: Paperwork burden repels foreigners, write Kornchanok Raksaseri and Wassayos Ngamkham

Long-term foreign residents are crying foul at the strict implementation of the TM30 reporting rules, saying that it will only penalise law-abiding foreigners and have little effect on ill-intentioned criminals and other wrongdoers who skirt the law and evade the requirements.

The reinforcement of regulations regarding the so-called TM30 form is outlined in the 1979 Immigration Act.

The TM30 is a form that landlords which provide accommodation to foreigners must submit to the authorities within 24 hours of the arrival of their tenants.

By law, landlords must submit the form to authorities every time their tenants return to the country.

Long-term foreign residents are also required to report their whereabouts if they spend more than 24 hours at places other than their registered addresses.

Landlords and tenants who fail to comply face fines of between 800 to 2,000 baht, although the sum seems to differ across different immigration offices.

A foreign NGO worker who asked not to be named said that he doesn't think that form is a problem, as it is his landlord's responsibility to submit the form to authorities.

The NGO worker, who has been living in Thailand for eight years, said he has a one-year visa and reports to officers at Chaeng Watthana immigration office every 90 days.

He said that while he finds it weird that has to leave the country as he waits for his visa extension to be approved, he has done so nonetheless.

"The law is the law, and the rule is the rule," he said.

However, he was asked about the TM30 form for the first time when he last came in for his usual 90-day report.

"An officer asked me if my landlord has submitted the TM30 form," he said.
"When I told him I had no clue, the officer said that I could submit the report on my landlord's behalf, which I refused to do."

"I am not currently sure how exactly this TM30 works and what the consequences are if it's not followed," he said, before adding that he doubted the effectiveness of the measure.

"Those who have bad intentions and want to avoid the rules will skirt the rules anyway," he said.

Yomi Sonubi, the Projects and Operations Director of Needeed Foundation who has been living in Thailand for six years, said the TM30 would not be a problem if tenants maintain good relations and communication with their landlords.

"However, it will be a problem for foreigners who have to travel abroad often," he said, before adding that the additional burden has caused some staff to think about relocating.

Mr Sonubi's concern was echoed across several online forums, where many foreigners voiced their frustration over the tedious reporting process.

A netizen who goes by "drsmith" said that his family decided to cancel their two-week trip to Thailand after learning about the entire TM30 ordeal.

"After reading that we have to report our every move, we decided to cancel our vacation to go somewhere more friendly," he wrote.

Another netizen, who goes by the username "borthong" wrote, "I don't know about others, but I am not travelling to a country where I've spent millions of baht to be treated like a criminal or person on bail who has to be tracked."

The Bangkok Post spoke to several Thai landlords but none wanted to discuss the matter out of concern they might be fined by the Immigration Bureau (IB).

Meanwhile, IB chief Pol Lt Gen Sompong Chingduang admitted there are problems that need to be addressed to improve understanding of the regulation among landlords.

Pol Lt Gen Sompong said many of those who provide accommodation to foreigners are unaware they are required to report their tenants' whereabouts to authorities. He also said that many private homeowners choose to ignore the entire procedure, while hotel and guesthouse owners are more familiar with the process.

Pol Lt Gen Sompong said that some operators have complained that the 24-hour period for reporting is not enough.

He also said that some landlords refuse to report their foreign tenants to authorities, leaving in to their tenants to report their presence themselves. He said efforts are being made to improve understanding of the law, and that reporting could be done via an app called "Section 38".

However, Pol Lt Gen Sompong stressed that the TM30 process will continue to be enforced in the future, despite the problems it is encountering.

phpC8qKwnPM.jpg (60.56 KiB) Viewed 1042 times

[Big Boy]

OK guys, being the law abiding/god fearing/stupid (please delete as considered appropriate) citizen that I am, I'm not long back from Immigration, where Mrs BB has submitted a TM30. Observations from today:

• Looked at completion of the online document. Date of departure was the only stumbling point, but thought it better to report in person.

• Went to the very knowledgeable photocopy lady. Her opinion was that I was a good egg doing the report, but it wasn't essential.

• Went to the window. The thing that struck me was there is now a dedicated window, permanently manned. I saw this as them expecting a massive increase in trade. Of course, we were the only ones there.

My conclusion......... I don't have one. I believe the photocopy lady knows more than the rest of them put together. She says not necessary, but then I see the permanently manned window dedicated to the task. No idea which way this is going to swing. I think it likely, in view of the reaction so far, they will drop it as yet another silly idea.

I would GUESS there is no enforcement of the regulation yet, but the fact there is a dedicated manned window that wasn't there when we booked in visitors in April, things may be about to change. The entire piece, including travelling time took me 30 minutes, so no hardship to me, and I will probably continue to do it, now that I've started, until officially announced as stupid. For people without their own transport, or living outside of Hua Hin, enforcement would be an absolute nightmare.