Temporary sub-forum for all news, updates, developments and discussion on Coronavirus/Covid-19 in Hua Hin, Thailand and globally. Any and all topics on the outbreak will be moved into this forum for ease of information access.
nil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:47 pm
A large proportion of them came from deaths in care homes
Can you be more specific or are you just guessing? There have obviously been a lot of well-publicised deaths in care homes, but I have absolutely no idea what percentage of total deaths they amount to.
nil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:17 pm
How many younger people are still living with their parents who are over 65.
How many families are living with over 85 year olds in the household.
I don't know the figures, but I think you'd be surprised on both counts.
You're coming across as though you've written off anyone over 50 as insignificant, which won't win you many friends on this forum!
HHTel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:15 am
Hospitals to care homes is one section. There are still thousands of 'older' people who are at home. They were told to 'stay at home' months ago. Most have been following that advice. However, they are still supported by their family and care workers. Social distancing and mask wearing only goes so far. Getting a 70 or 80 year old to wear a mask when they're already short of breath just due to their age.
Back to my earlier point. Even in care homes, the elderly are contracting covid from a younger demographic. That makes protecting the younger generation important and so helping to protect the 'oldies'. Or do we just let them die and put it down to 'collateral damage'.
You’ve got it the wrong way round. You don’t need to protect the younger generation. You need them to build immunity and that protects the elderly.
nil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:47 pm
A large proportion of them came from deaths in care homes
Can you be more specific or are you just guessing? There have obviously been a lot of well-publicised deaths in care homes, but I have absolutely no idea what percentage of total deaths they amount to.
So far it’s 16000, which is nearly a third of all deaths.
You're coming across as though you've written off anyone over 50 as insignificant, which won't win you many friends on this forum!
Lol. I’m just being realistic. I’m over 50 myself anyway.
And I’m sure we all remember the tragic UK 2017/18 winter where there were an estimated 50,000 excess deaths. I can’t quite remember but I’m sure there must of been a daily press briefing announcing the number that had died each day.
You’ve got it the wrong way round. You don’t need to protect the younger generation. You need them to build immunity and that protects the elderly.
To get that immunity, they first of all have to have had the virus, along with the capability of spreading. The initial hope was that antibodies would give you immunity for up to a year based upon SARS.
Recent studies however have concluded that immunity after an infection lasts for only 2 - 3 months. That puts the idea of 'herd immunity' out of the window.
So your idea in what I've quoted doesn't stand up.
nil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:47 pm
A large proportion of them came from deaths in care homes
Can you be more specific or are you just guessing? There have obviously been a lot of well-publicised deaths in care homes, but I have absolutely no idea what percentage of total deaths they amount to.
nil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:17 pm
How many younger people are still living with their parents who are over 65.
How many families are living with over 85 year olds in the household.
I don't know the figures, but I think you'd be surprised on both counts.
You're coming across as though you've written off anyone over 50 as insignificant, which won't win you many friends on this forum!
Almost a third of males up to their mid 30's still live with their parents.
I know many in the UK where one parent has died and the aged remaining parent moves in with their children. That is a growing trend. This virus has increased that trend.'
You’ve got it the wrong way round. You don’t need to protect the younger generation. You need them to build immunity and that protects the elderly.
To get that immunity, they first of all have to have had the virus, along with the capability of spreading. The initial hope was that antibodies would give you immunity for up to a year based upon SARS.
Recent studies however have concluded that immunity after an infection lasts for only 2 - 3 months. That puts the idea of 'herd immunity' out of the window.
So your idea in what I've quoted doesn't stand up.
Antibodies to the virus faded quickly in asymptomatic people, scientists reported. That does not mean immunity disappears.
I'd already read that report. Unlike your implication, it doesn't bode well for natural immunity.
“These reports highlight the need to develop strong vaccines, because immunity that develops naturally during infection is suboptimal and short-lived in most people,” she said. “We cannot rely on natural infection to achieve herd immunity.”
The Ivor Cummins vid is indeed interesting. He's been pushing the Keto diet for some time which I've tried with great results.
Hope-Simpson was a clever guy. Spent most of his life on discovering why chickenpox and shingles are related. And he studied 'flu almost obsessively.
He died in 2003 around 90 years old. Shame he's not alive today.
HHTel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:24 am
I'd already read that report. Unlike your implication, it doesn't bode well for natural immunity.
“These reports highlight the need to develop strong vaccines, because immunity that develops naturally during infection is suboptimal and short-lived in most people,” she said. “We cannot rely on natural infection to achieve herd immunity.”
Of course you will pick the one quote from that particular doctor whereas the rest of the research quoted indicates we will probably have immunity from either T cells or memory B cells ramping up antibody production when needed.
But this virus had been circulating since last year and how many reports are there of reinfection. The only ones I am aware of are the false alarm where the PCR tests amplified and gave a false positive from dead viral fragments from recovered patients.
I don’t think there’s any doubt that Covid-19 is a dangerous disease and the fact that it affects those over 50 (and more) far greater than the younger generation, is of little consequence. You can’t ringfence the over 50’s and put them in total isolation and let the rest of the world carry on as normal. There may be a point about whether the world has overreacted to the crisis to the extent of everything else, but at the outset it was very much a guessing game as to how big this problem was going to get and they simply couldn’t sit back and wait and see, they had to plan for the worst. Only time will tell on how well governments have done, but it will be a lot easier looking back to be critical, than it was to look forward and predict what might happen.
You have to take three steps back and consider how dangerous Covid would have been if the world had not taken such unprecedented actions. This is why I say we should watch Brazil who are refusing to follow the rest of the world. Another 1,103 deaths yesterday, despite some provinces going against the government advice and locking down.
Whilst it is very sad that so many are dying, I think it is very important to have a lockdown/no lockdown comparison.
GOV’T HINTS AT EXTENDING VIRUS EMERGENCY LAW FOR 3RD TIME
Top government officials on Wednesday refused to rule out the possibility of extending the Emergency Decree again for the third time amid growing voices of concern from the opposition and private sector.
Deputy PM Wissanu Krea-ngam said the Cabinet did not discuss the fate of the emergency rule in its meeting yesterday. He deferred reporter’s questions to the National Security Council and said that the final decision on its fate is to be made by the government’s COVID-19 response center next Monday.
“I don’t know whether the decree will be extended,” Wissanu said. “The Center for COVID-19 Situation Administration will hold a meeting on June 29, before submitting the proposals for the Cabinet to approve on June 30.”
The government had previously said that the Cabinet will deliberate on whether to extend the decree this week. The Emergency Decree empowers the PM to implement his order in any state agency and allows security officers to search individuals without warrants. It also bans any unauthorized public gatherings, including political protests.
The law has been extended twice since it was imposed on March 26, and is supposed to expire next Tuesday.
Dictators being dictators, this has nothing to do with CO19. They want to prevent a student uprising and inevitable protests against the junta's absolute power, so the ED is likely to remain a permanent feature.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
