world population

[sargeant]

I started thinking about this after listening to and reading BBC world and the thread on co2

Firstly let me deal with climate change it struck me that car exhausts factorys and and cows farting are great emotive topics to discuss but i have never heard any one scientist or whatever mention population growth and as humans breath in air with oxygen and breath out carbon dioxide rich air the human lump and its massive growth must be having an effect for instance if immigrants can suffocate in a cargo container because they have used up the oxygen the earth is a container and therefore the carbon dioxide parts per million must be going up purely from the growth in human beings breathing.
The population explosion means that human beings need more wood for fires furniture chariots bows and arrows. Trees put oxygen into the air less trees more people more parts per million

Answer cull the population

The major cause for terrorism is according to the general way of thinking is poverty as the population grows the poor grow faster than the rich in other words each passing year their are more and more potential terrorists and more and more reasons to become terrorists

Answer cull the population

Just playing advocate but a serious point for discussion
because any sensible thinker knows the population cannot keep going like it has /is I am seriously glad i wont be around and have to decide how to do it anybody got any ideas how they will do it and how long before they start to do it

[PeteC]

There's a lot to it Sarge. I think about 5,000 children die each day due to starvation, about 4 per minute. Food in the world is plentiful and many countries donate, but people steal and sell rather than distribute. I don't know the total number of people including adults but it must be near 10,000 I would think. This is just something that boggles my mind in this day and age.

Next as born a Catholic, I have a right to comment on this. Pope after Pope refuses to sanction birth control. Places like Mexico, South America, the Philippines are bursting at the seams because of this. You know the immigration problem between Mexico and the USA, caused by over population and lack of jobs in Mexico. However, Mexico City just passed an abortion law!!! For woman in their first trimester, I think. The Pope continues to say no to birth control. The death of the unborn can be on his shoulders! Someone please show me where God said you can only have sex to procreate?!

As to the big picture you mention, I think nature always has a way to balance itself and the planet when things get too out of control. We could see more famine due to climate change, increased deaths due to natural disasters (we lost 200,000+ with one tsunami), wars, and last but not least...disease like bird flu, SARS etc. Pete

[sargeant]

No i dont know the exact figures ( i am hoping guess will help out there) but there are less humans dying each day than are born and human beings are living longer
I actually think climate change is the way the planet will clear its throat but i also believe within the next 50 to 75 years the worlds politicians will have to grasp the nettle not just because of climate change or any of the other reasons like terrorism but because the worlds economy will collapse under the ever growing mountain of personal debt which will reach a point when everyone says bugger it why should i pay it back and the big wars start as anarchy really bites
As for the pope and birth control the born again christian fundementalists in the USA are doing their best to fill the planet quickly to the top but you are right pete it is also interesting to note most of those places have their share of terrorists
As you say pete nature has its way any other ideas of how the planet and nature will bring balance

[DawnHRD]

I have the same view on human population control as I do on the dog problem. Neuter. Not necessarily surgically, but definitely birth control, as Pete mentioned. Also agree with him that the Catholic Church needs to come out of the Dark Ages on that one.

Not saying I go along with it (& I certainly don't go along with the results - orphanages full of abandoned girls), but China's one child policy is an interesting idea if you are thinking of it as a purely theoretical idea.

[sargeant]

Question dawn who decides who is or isnt a street human and which ones get nuetered and which ones dont or will it come down to rich and poor
i have heard a debate a long time ago about the chinese system where people would be paid to be sterilised!! and it has not worked in china as you say orphanages full of abandoned girls

devils advocate

[DawnHRD]

People make their own decisions about birth control & I didn't mean to imply anything different. However, in Catholic countries, it would make a big difference if potential parents were able to make their own decisions, rather than be told what is acceptable.

Education in all countries would be a plus, too. There are far too many young pregnancies or "mistakes" because of ignorance.

[caller]

Wasn't there a time in India when the "lower castes" were forcibly castrated? Doesn't seem to have had much of an impact.

Education might work better?

[PeteC]

Wasn't there a time in India when the "lower castes" were forcibly castrated? Doesn't seem to have had much of an impact.

Education might work better?

The impact was significant as I think they used a cleaver? However, education is the correct route, along with science.

One thing I've seen here that I never saw in the west are implant contraceptives. They surgically insert them in the inside of the upper arm and they are good for 3-5 years. Is there some kind of medical ban/tabboo about using this method in the west? Pete

[Nereus]

One thing I've seen here that I never saw in the west are implant contraceptives. They surgically insert them in the inside of the upper arm and they are good for 3-5 years. Is there some kind of medical ban/tabboo about using this method in the west? Pete

What you are refering to Pete is known as "Norplant". Like many hormone type products it proved to have some side effects and was withdrawn in a lot of Wesrtern countries. I am not sure if it is still available here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norplant

[sargeant]

Dawn i dont disagree but it is sidestepping the question in so much as at some point the population will get to much and education in this instance wont IMHO work and certainly not world wide it is the overwhelming urge for animals and living thingys to procreate so presuming that education does not work (and that is a big if) how and IMO more importantly who will make the decisions
Birth control in the water supply compulsory chemical nuetering

But what would be the criteria and who would decide who did and who did not

I am surprised though that noone has so far questioned my co2 through humans breathing yet

Another point if climate change is excacerbated by the growth in human population how close are we before we have to consider population controls world wide

[redzonerocker]

a short while ago an 11 (yes eleven) year old girl in scotland became a mother. when asked how & why she became pregnant she replied " it was just a drunken one night stand".
teenage pregnancies are on the increase yearly in europe,uk being top of the table, no surprise there.
sex education has never been more illustrated in schools. the media campaigns for safe sex & prevention of teenage pregnancies have been practically rammed down the throats of the past two generations yet still the problem is there.
what are the chances of educating the lesser nations of the problem when it can't be sorted in the more advanced countries?
some pretty drastic measures have been suggested here, but i think the gods have got their own plans for population control.
its called aids!

[sargeant]

RNR yes i agree education does not seem to work the chances are the 11 year olds mother was 22 at the birth of her grandchild
As for AIDS i could go along with that except the population of africa although riddled with AIDS is still growing

Playing advocate again i think that there is a real possibility that to reduce population covert biological warfare will be used
the question is how far down the track and will it be climate change that kicks it of

Come on you co2 not the problem peops i expected a deluge of Sarge you are talking crap about human breathing and connecting the two global warming and population control

[DawnHRD]

Sarge,

IMHO, you are talking about a lot of variables that we have no idea about at the moment. I'm still not sure where your terrorist connection comes from, unless you mean poorer (more populated) countries breed more political discontent. Which is possible. You cannot chemically or otherwise castrate humans without their consent. That's what human rights groups are for - and I for one fully support their work.
What about all those deluded souls who have opted for cryogenics rather than burial or cremation? Why do they imagine that the world would want to reinstate them to life, even if the technology were available? Not touched on that, yet.
But, to play Devils advocate in my own right, Sarge, how many children have you fathered? If more than one, I'd be careful about starting off this topic from the point of view that you have.

[PeteC]

One thing I've seen here that I never saw in the west are implant contraceptives. They surgically insert them in the inside of the upper arm and they are good for 3-5 years. Is there some kind of medical ban/tabboo about using this method in the west? Pete

What you are refering to Pete is known as "Norplant". Like many hormone type products it proved to have some side effects and was withdrawn in a lot of Wesrtern countries. I am not sure if it is still available here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norplant

It's still is use here at Bangkok-Pattaya Hospital so assume everywhere. 20 months ago after my daughter was born the counseling with her OB/GYN included preferred BC methods, if any.

The OB is female, as were the two nurses in the room, as is my partner. That's 8 female eyes throwing lightening bolts at me to get a vasectomy.

Pills upset her stomach so it was decided at least for now, to get the 3 year implant. No problems as described in Wikipedia. She was about 62 kilos right after delivery now down to 52 which was her norm before pregnancy. Some irregular periods (early) but the OB says not to be concerned. All in all, things have been ok with the implant.

This post will self destruct in 30 seconds....LOL. Pete

[sargeant]

it not me that says the cause of terrorism is poverty dawn thats what the politicians say I personally dont agree with them but as it will be politicians that will operate the cull if the population goes over the top i take the fact that for every rich guy there are hundreds of poor guys and extrapolate from what they say thats all
As for human rights and peoples consent i dont believe the people of pennsylvania (it may have been frisco)were even asked before the US military used them as guinea pigs testing the dispersal of the flu virus. My concern is if some political power like pol pot can try to take his country back a couple of centurys how easy to convince your own country to use biological agents to cull another country advocating again
one son i know of dawn im ok on that one although DNA might prove me wrong somewhere in the world
as for being carefull it is just a topic for discussion a slight change from discussing piss