Politics in Turkey

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Politics in Turkey

Post by PeteC »

I don't read much about what is going on there but those of you in Europe probably do. The below BBC article is an eye opener for me.

An historically Islamic country trying to discard that image in the midst of many other Islamic countries and people trying to expand that image, aggressively.

Why? Is it only the desire to join the EU, or do they really want an open and free democracy? Pete :cheers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6604643.stm
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Re: Politics in Turkey

Post by Jaime »

prcscct wrote:An historically Islamic country trying to discard that image in the midst of many other Islamic countries and people trying to expand that image, aggressively.
Pete,

I didn't read the link so forgive me if it's in there but I remember being taught at school that Turkey, under Kemel Ataturk, became the world's first explicitly secular state when the Ottoman Empire broke up.

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Re: Politics in Turkey

Post by webmaster »

prcscct wrote:I don't read much about what is going on there but those of you in Europe probably do. The below BBC article is an eye opener
for me.

An historically Islamic country trying to discard that image in the midst of many other Islamic countries and people trying to expand that image,
aggressively.

Why? Is it only the desire to join the EU, or do they really want an open and free democracy? Pete :cheers:
I can write a few hundred pages about the reasons why, but would like to give a short answer.

First of all this has nothing to do with the EU membership. Turkey has been the first secular Muslim country and government in the world, since 1923. Most of the EU countries are NOT secular. The President of Turkey is the head of the Government not, Mosque, Church, Synagogue, Temple or any other religious belief.

After fighting a long battle during WWI against the countries (GB, France, Soviet Republics, Germany, Italy, and a few more) want to slice&share and as well as a civil war against the ruling Ottoman Empire rulers who are willing to take their share in that mayhem.

This is the main reason why it's a blood-red flag with a crescent on it. One night the founder of Turkish Republic Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was on top of a mountain, looking at a valley which was covered with blood and there was a clear sky and a silhouette of a crescent and a star next to it.

Lots of people (in millions) lost their life in that multi-national and civil war, who were ruled under Sheria and strict Muslim/Arabic rules for 700 years.

They just wanted to protect their land, families and kick-start a new life without having to be sold neither to occupying countries nor their rulers. It was a new beginning for an un-educated, under the thumb, broke farmers’/villagers’ country.

After all the sacrifices the civil war was won with against all the odds.

In one year, all the (700 years of) remains of Ottoman Empire were removed.

The new Turkish Republic was born 19 May 1919.

A new alphabet (not Arabic, but Latin), the new clothing (not Arabic, but European i.e., trousers, jackets, ties, skirts), new army and police force (not dictating Sheria Laws only), new schools, (not only Quran and religious studies, but Universities), freedom of speech and publishing, new parliament (23 Apr 1920) and democratic elections.

After what people went through those years, which is only a few decades ago, there are still a lot of sons, fathers, grandchildren still living and have been carrying that secular spirit.

The modern Turkey welcomed 30+ ethnicities belonging/believing to sorts of religions during the war. Since then, all are living under the same flag and this election will jeopardise this sacrifice given by all those millions during the Turkish Independence war.

So, it's not really about a guy (Abdullah Gül) or a party (AKP) pushing for the presidency election this year, it's repeating the same Ottoman game again, but thanks to the people who fought during the war and created existing laws to protect their own religious freedom (not only Muslim but freedom of believers and non-believers) and built the foundations of the Turkish army which will be there to protect it for years to come (hopefully).

Yes, Turkey is Muslim country (90% of the population) but still, has the main Christian sites to become a pilgrim as a Christian, the most revered Orthodox Church in the World (no not in Greece, not in Russia) is in Turkey, the 3rd highest Jew population lives in Turkey, most of the ethnic communities who lost their homes during the WWII in Soviet Unions still live and are welcomed in Turkey.
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Post by caller »

Thanks for that insight, webmaster!

I was thinking about what is going on in Turkey when I read the thread about Thai's being content under the junta with no signs of oppression and Lomu (rightly) raised the issue of the (mainly muslim) south.

And whilst I know that not everything is rosey in Turkey (the Kurdish issue for one), it does appear that they led the way many years ago in a world now strugging to deal with religious fanatacism (fascism?) and don't want to revert to the old ways that some seem intent on taking them?

It seems that the west has to consider new ways of dealing with this problem and that the way's that have worked up to now - liberty, tolerance etc - need to be reviewed, simply because the people we are dealing with, that we have up to now, welcomed, see that as a weakness and take advantage of it.

The UK is suffering in that respect, with yet again, law lords seeking to release known terrorists rather than sending them back from whence they came, because of the UK's adherance to HRA (not to return people because of the risk of torture), despite the fact there is evidence they were here illegally and to plot against the UK.

We need to look at new ways, to protect our people first and either legally get aspects of HRA changed or repeal the bits that work against the host country in the modern world.

But, going back to Turkey, do we go as far as prosecuting those that criticise the state, that is against the law there, with respected authors such as Orham Panuk (Snow, My Name is Red) once facing prosecution for doing so (the Kurdish thing again)? And reporters and journalists facing real risk of assassination if they challenge the status quo? How much can you value what is good for the majority with any imapct on the minority?

I don't know the answer, but what we do have doesn't appear to work so well anymore, or perhaps it will, given time?

By the way, Snow is recommended as an analogy of the times we live in, with perhaps some lessons there? I'm sure Webmaster will correct anything I have wrong.
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Post by webmaster »

Thanks for all the input caller.

I would like to write/post more if I had the time, but as you can all see it took me a bit more than 10 posts in 4 years as a BM (Board Member), the work always gets in the way, I don't know how Buksi manages to post all that.

Orhan Pamuk, is an interesting person, I have met him lots of times before he was famous as an author in Turkey, Snow (Kar in Turkish) is written in a very multi-leveled style book. I am sorry to admit that, the English version is really lost in translation. I still have the Turkish version here in Thailand and will be happy to answer any enquiries to it if any of the BMs PM me.

Regards to “prosecuting those that criticise the stateâ€
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Post by PeteC »

You're still around Webmaster, good. Things have now changed. I saw on the news today that the controversial candidate has now decided not to run. What's next?

The reason I started this was not particularly about the known secular history of Turkey, but the 90% Muslim figure you confirmed and how they seem to live in peace with most everyone.

As a point of discussion, how safe would a British or an American be walking around Turkey today? Pete :cheers:
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Post by webmaster »

The next I believe is, since they have now amended the law to enable the people to choose the new president (as opposed to parliament) there will be a new election in the hope of the ruling AKP party that, they will come back with a greater support and get their guy in as the new president.

What ever the election method is, the person, who will be the next president has to be a secular person, otherwise the army will not tolerate this and it will be another que deta and I am afraid, this time, a bloody one.

Going back to how safe the foreigners are in Turkey, mainly Turks are very welcoming and caring towards any nationality, my wife is British and lived in Turkey for more than 4 years and she found it quite secure, we have a lot of foreign friends working and living Turkey and most of them say it's still safer than their own countries.

I haven't been living in Turkey more than 10 years now, but what I sense on every visit I make back home is, thanks to the improved education level and TV's, people have become even more attentive and caring for the foreigners than before.
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Post by caller »

Pete,

My next doors neighbours are a Turk/UK couple, they have a holiday home there. Prices are similar to LOS - 30/40k GBP for 3/4 bedrooms villas - but maybe not those of Hua Hin or Pattaya?

A couple where I work have a holiday home there and its a popular holiday destination for Brits. Thousands visit there each year, but mainly to the cosatal resorts.

Apart from the odd bombing (seriously), there's no problems!!!!
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Turkey

Post by darwinian »

I sincerely hope they can keep their secular constitution.If this means intervention by the army,so be it.
This is more important to Turkey than joining the EC.
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Post by PeteC »

Thanks everyone. Turkey is in the neighborhood of many Islamic countries that are either wholly or partially dominated by extremists. Extremism is spreading to many new places on the globe.

Regardless of the constitution and the Army etc., it's difficult for me to understand why with a 90% Muslim population, some of this radicalism has not found it's way into Turkish society.

You could say you don't see it in Eqypt either but they are ruled with an iron fist, and from what I hear on this thread, Turkey is not really governed in that manner.

Whatever they are doing it seems to be working and I think a good example for people to learn about in order to understand the peaceful side of Islam.

This brings up another question. Does Turkey have different Muslim factions, such as Sunni and Shia ? If not, it also could explain the peace. Pete :cheers:
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Post by webmaster »

In Turkey we have the main factions Sunnis, Hanefis, Shiias and more of our home grown factions like, Bektasis and Sufis. On top of that we have most of the Christian factions and the head of the Protestant Church is in Istanbul. Plus we have a big Jew population as well.

The area I was born in Istanbul is called Samatya, one of the oldest towns in Istanbul (around 2500 years). When I was a toddler we used to play in the gardens of the church and the mosque which was shared grounds, no separation walls. Funny enough, I used to cry when we didn't have the Easter eggs or all the cookies during the Easter, later on when I was 6, I have learnt that Easter was not a Muslim tradition. Since most of our neighbors were Christians, I struggled a lot to understand the difference for a long time between the religions, at the end we were all happy together, but those were the old/happy childhood days...

Sigh....

The main reason why it's working now can be understood by looking at why it worked for 600+ years in the past during the Otoman Empire, while they were ruling 1/3 of Europe, Northern Africa, and the whole Middle East.

Omer
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