caller,
That is very sad, but I would hardly say this guy was a chav, because one thing I missed out was that they normally don't work either. However there appears to be an issue as regards the treatment of immigrants, legal or otherwise, as opposed to those born in the UK. Whether this is down to UK policy or the EU is another matter, and most likely a combination. Some of the 'solutions' to the problem may not be legally viable under one or other's regulations, which is where most of the problem lies I think.
There has always been an 'underclass' of those who neither work nor want to, and it just seems that this may have increased, maybe with more unemployable people, and immigrants added into the mix, along with increasing generations being born to them and supported by welfare. However I still think that in general this problem has probably been magnified by press coverage, and is isolated to only a few areas. Labelling groups of people just by the way they look is often a very dangerous thing to do, and can be frightening for the older members of the society, as they will see a teenager in a hooded top and instantly think 'DANGER' when the kid is most likely just a fashion victim.
Teenagers have always had this aura of menace, but it is normally all hot air. There is a theory that giving publicity to a certain type of behaviour leads to more of it, and vice versa, and I wouldn't mind betting that if the media stopped reporting on hoodies and chavs, that both the actual and perceived threat from them would subside. Hopefully it will become the thing to be smart, polite and work for a living in the future...
Reasons to leave the UK 1, 2, 3.
wanderlust
not sure if media stop reporting it, it will improve....Teenager in a hooded top and we instantly think 'DANGER' quite right too if in in a dark alley or quiet street...maybe the kids are likely to be fashion victims...but bad attitude associated with Hoodies as no connection to fashion...if Boys in hooded tops started by changing this they would be better accepted.
Another point, it is well known by the police that in several instances boys walking the streets with hooded tops are trying to avoid facial recognition by CCTV...Only a percentage perhaps...how much i am not sure but nevertheless they are hiding, to what end? so it all contributes to the "Hoodies" bad image...
not sure if media stop reporting it, it will improve....Teenager in a hooded top and we instantly think 'DANGER' quite right too if in in a dark alley or quiet street...maybe the kids are likely to be fashion victims...but bad attitude associated with Hoodies as no connection to fashion...if Boys in hooded tops started by changing this they would be better accepted.
Another point, it is well known by the police that in several instances boys walking the streets with hooded tops are trying to avoid facial recognition by CCTV...Only a percentage perhaps...how much i am not sure but nevertheless they are hiding, to what end? so it all contributes to the "Hoodies" bad image...
A small thread detour. Pattaya is the #1 in Thailand for teenage crime, official statistics. Not a week goes by where someone isn't shot by these young thugs. The latest last week was a Thai man simply honking his car horn at a group on motorbikes who were swerving all over the highway and distrupting traffic. Reported that 3-4 took off and one slowed down, came along side the car and blew half the man's head off.Wanderlust wrote: Teenagers have always had this aura of menace, but it is normally all hot air. There is a theory that giving publicity to a certain type of behaviour leads to more of it, and vice versa, and I wouldn't mind betting that if the media stopped reporting on hoodies and chavs, that both the actual and perceived threat from them would subside. Hopefully it will become the thing to be smart, polite and work for a living in the future...
You're damn right I'm scared to drive around late at night and these aren't the type of teenagers we were WL. If they're like that here, what are they like in the West? Are there any islands left in the world to buy???
Pete 
It's as bad as the statistic, the time of night and the age group that I talked about. Normal tourists going about their normal daily things will probably never experience any of this. It's when you live here, start reading, watching and talking to Thai and farang people alike that the 'dark side' comes out in a big way.Hervelon wrote:Is Pattaya as bad as this? i was in jomtien beach the other day with my young son...I walked to my hotel and fell quite safe
Night time is dangerous here outside the tourist areas and the primary cause is teenagers out of control on the streets, inclusive of shootings, snatch thefts, assaults and rapes. Pete
PS:
If we want to talk about this more, we should probably start a new thread, as I should have done earlier....LOL. 
Last edited by PeteC on Mon May 07, 2007 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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barrys
- Legend
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- Location: Enjoying the sea air on a boat around Pak Nam Pran
Pete said "Night time is dangerous here outside the tourist areas and the primary cause is teenagers out of control on the streets, inclusive of shootings, snatch thefts, assaults and rapes"
And not only outside the tourist areas if you consider the frequent assaults by 'rejected' katoeys on the Beach Road in Pattaya and Jomtien at night or the two Russian women sitting on the beach in Jomtien a few weeks ago!
And not only outside the tourist areas if you consider the frequent assaults by 'rejected' katoeys on the Beach Road in Pattaya and Jomtien at night or the two Russian women sitting on the beach in Jomtien a few weeks ago!
WL, I agree its in certain areas only. Mainly inner areas of cities or large towns. But I think you're wrong in how you view the guy that died or that its only the unemployed and even if it was, is it right to label them in such a way? Which is with a mocking, looking down upon them, type of label.
I think its a real shame that we have this "underclass" as perceived, by their wealthier, gloating peers. I strongly feel they were left out of the plans when support was on offer and I think that's wrong. I think it has been misguided rather than anything else and I believe that fact is recognised - partly helped by a swathe of books on the subject, usually bu working class kids made good.
I haven't a clue why I feel strongly about this, or where that has come from and I think it best to call it quits now.
And don't even get me started on Fulham........
I think its a real shame that we have this "underclass" as perceived, by their wealthier, gloating peers. I strongly feel they were left out of the plans when support was on offer and I think that's wrong. I think it has been misguided rather than anything else and I believe that fact is recognised - partly helped by a swathe of books on the subject, usually bu working class kids made good.
I haven't a clue why I feel strongly about this, or where that has come from and I think it best to call it quits now.
And don't even get me started on Fulham........
Talk is cheap
OSLO, Norway (AP) -- Two young Norwegian vandals overlooked a small but crucial detail when they started smashing up a train station elevator: They were inside it.
And the elevator at the Lillestroem Train Station, north of Oslo, almost seemed to be of the vengeful sort, sealing its doors and holding the two for the police, making news in Norway on Monday after a local newspaper learned of the incident.
"Vandalism is always sad, but a lot of people do see the humor in this," Ellen Svendsvoll, of the National Rail Administration, said by telephone. "They got what was coming to them."
The two vandals, identified only as men in their early 20s, went into the elevator late on April 21, waited for the doors to close, and started to kick them, she said.
They kicked so hard that the doors jammed, and the elevator stopped, sending an alarm to security guards. The guards tried to lower the elevator, which only jammed the doors more, so they called the police and fire department.
The firefighters freed the two suspects, while the police waited outside.
"Talk about being caught in the act," Svendsvoll said. "I've never heard of anyone being trapped by the elevator they were vandalizing. I don't know what they were thinking. They couldn't have been thinking much."
The two now face criminal charges, as well as a claim from the railroad for the cost of repairs, which Svendsvoll said would probably exceed 100,000 kroner (US$16,700).
It's likely to be an open-and-shut case. Apart from the elevator closing up on the two, a security camera recorded the attack.
And the elevator at the Lillestroem Train Station, north of Oslo, almost seemed to be of the vengeful sort, sealing its doors and holding the two for the police, making news in Norway on Monday after a local newspaper learned of the incident.
"Vandalism is always sad, but a lot of people do see the humor in this," Ellen Svendsvoll, of the National Rail Administration, said by telephone. "They got what was coming to them."
The two vandals, identified only as men in their early 20s, went into the elevator late on April 21, waited for the doors to close, and started to kick them, she said.
They kicked so hard that the doors jammed, and the elevator stopped, sending an alarm to security guards. The guards tried to lower the elevator, which only jammed the doors more, so they called the police and fire department.
The firefighters freed the two suspects, while the police waited outside.
"Talk about being caught in the act," Svendsvoll said. "I've never heard of anyone being trapped by the elevator they were vandalizing. I don't know what they were thinking. They couldn't have been thinking much."
The two now face criminal charges, as well as a claim from the railroad for the cost of repairs, which Svendsvoll said would probably exceed 100,000 kroner (US$16,700).
It's likely to be an open-and-shut case. Apart from the elevator closing up on the two, a security camera recorded the attack.
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redzonerocker
- Rock Star
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the uk
it would seem that wherever you go in the world, in certain areas of that place there will be danger zones.
the scale of danger varies from place to place.
i cannot comment on pattaya because i havent been there.
i did spend time in bkk, chang mai/& rai, ubon, udon, khon kaen & several out of the way non tourist areas, & of course hua hin.
there is no way as much hostility or danger in thailand as there is in europe. i certainly felt safer in thai than anywhere in the uk or other parts of europe at night or in the early hours.
i dont for one moment think that thai is a perfect haven.
there is far more poverty & far less opportunities for the thai people in general, but in comparison to the western world, it is a far safer & more pleasant society in my opinion.
the scale of danger varies from place to place.
i cannot comment on pattaya because i havent been there.
i did spend time in bkk, chang mai/& rai, ubon, udon, khon kaen & several out of the way non tourist areas, & of course hua hin.
there is no way as much hostility or danger in thailand as there is in europe. i certainly felt safer in thai than anywhere in the uk or other parts of europe at night or in the early hours.
i dont for one moment think that thai is a perfect haven.
there is far more poverty & far less opportunities for the thai people in general, but in comparison to the western world, it is a far safer & more pleasant society in my opinion.