The Rugby Thread

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pharvey
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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^ Thanks Pete :thumb:

Cracking match for Friday evening (UK) - Bristol Bears vs Exeter... Looking forward to this one!! 7:45 BST (BT Sport).

:cheers: :cheers:
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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I'll say Bristol by 5. They seem to be the "new" Exeter.
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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PeteC wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:21 am I'll say Bristol by 5. They seem to be the "new" Exeter.
Tough one to call, but it's got to be Exeter IMHO - a few out from the Bristol squad including Fly-half Sheedy who took a big hit last match out.

I'll go for Exeter by 7-10 pts.

[EDIT] All bets are off - Wayne Barnes is the ref..... :roll: :wink:

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Re: The Rugby Thread

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Quite a game, with McKenzie winning it yet again in the final seconds. I think the 5th time he's done that this season.


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Re: The Rugby Thread

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pharvey wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:17 pm
PeteC wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:21 am I'll say Bristol by 5. They seem to be the "new" Exeter.
Tough one to call, but it's got to be Exeter IMHO - a few out from the Bristol squad including Fly-half Sheedy who took a big hit last match out.

I'll go for Exeter by 7-10 pts.

[EDIT] All bets are off - Wayne Barnes is the ref..... :roll: :wink:

:cheers: :cheers:
Went badly for Bristol, didn't it. I saw the first half and the pace of the game was phenomenal. The # 8 for Exeter, I think Sam Simmons?, was incredible. I've never seen an 8 with full stop to full speed like that. :shock: I assume he's on The Lions for sure.
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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The natural order has been restored. As for Sam Simmons, Eddie Jones doesn`t seem to like him, let`s hope Warren Gatland has a different view
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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PeteC wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:30 pm The # 8 for Exeter, I think Sam Simmons?, was incredible. I've never seen an 8 with full stop to full speed like that. :shock: I assume he's on The Lions for sure.
And yet, at 26 he only has a handful of England appearances, all 3 years ago... :? :roll:
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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dtaai-maai wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:17 pm
PeteC wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:30 pm The # 8 for Exeter, I think Sam Simmons?, was incredible. I've never seen an 8 with full stop to full speed like that. :shock: I assume he's on The Lions for sure.
And yet, at 26 he only has a handful of England appearances, all 3 years ago... :? :roll:
Absolute class act - he had to be a shoe in for the Lions, but after that display in front of Gatland last night he'll surely be in the squad (along with Falateau). :thumb:

Fantastic game, Exeter back to their best - they're going to miss Thomas Francis though next season. Stand out performance from Jonny Gray also (Exeter 2nd Row).

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Re: The Rugby Thread

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pharvey wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:57 pm Fantastic game, Exeter back to their best [...] Stand out performance from Jonny Gray also (Exeter 2nd Row).
Damn, sorry to hear that (that it was fantastic), as I missed it. Just caught the brief highlights, which didn't establish anything... Hopefully, the full game will be on the Premiership website later.

I've always liked Jonny Gray, who has been outstanding pretty much every time I've seen him. Is he inconsistent? Have I just been lucky to catch him on a good day?
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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dtaai-maai wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:26 pm
pharvey wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:57 pm Fantastic game, Exeter back to their best [...] Stand out performance from Jonny Gray also (Exeter 2nd Row).
Damn, sorry to hear that (that it was fantastic), as I missed it. Just caught the brief highlights, which didn't establish anything... Hopefully, the full game will be on the Premiership website later.

I've always liked Jonny Gray, who has been outstanding pretty much every time I've seen him. Is he inconsistent? Have I just been lucky to catch him on a good day?
You may be able to see it on YouTube in a few days as matches do seem to get posted - not really used the Premiership website.

As for Jonny Gray, I can't honestly remember him having a bad game for club or country. He does the donkey work in the engine room, so sometimes goes unnoticed by many. Would love to see him with AWJ for the Lions - Itoje for me needs more game time but will surely be there. Calls for Itoje to captain the Lions however are utterly ridiculous IMHO.

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Re: The Rugby Thread

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An episode of Dr. Who for sure. :shock: Scotland and Italy have been transposed?! :alien:

Edit: Reference the Rainbow Cup on Saturday.
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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There's already been countless team selections prior to Gatland's announcement on May 6th..... BUT, what would your starting Lions XV be? Let's not complicate things with reserves/subsitutes or extended squad members - just the starting XV.

They'll be many biased selections (by myself included) as the team is made up of four nations, but here we go....

15. Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
14. Liam Williams (Wales)
13. George North (Wales)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Ireland) - [EDIT] Should mention Farrell was a close call, but on current form....
11. Louis Rees-Zammit (Wales)
10. Johnny Sexton (Ireland) - Would be Biggar if not for Murray at 9.
9. Conor Murray (Ireland)
8. Sam Simmonds (England) - Made No.6 a problem as I would have gone for Faletau in SS's absence.
7. Tom Curry (England)
6. Taulupe Faletau (Wales) - Seriously difficult choice between TF and Navidi.
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Wales) - Captain
4. Jonny Gray (Scotland)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)
2. Ken Owens (Wales)
1. Joe Marler (England) - Can't stand him, but a hell of a scrummager which will be needed against SA.

Well, for me it's 6 for Wales, 2 for Scotland, 4 for Ireland and 3 for England - like I said, some bias! :neener: :wink:

Shall we make it a bit of fun? Select your XV starters for the 1st Test. 5 points for the correct player in the correct position, 3 points for the correct player starting the match in a diferent position, 1 point for the player being in the match day 22/25?

:cheers: :cheers:
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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pharvey wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:28 pm There's already been countless team selections prior to Gatland's announcement on May 6th..... BUT, what would your starting Lions XV be? Let's not complicate things with reserves/subsitutes or extended squad members - just the starting XV.

They'll be many biased selections (by myself included) as the team is made up of four nations, but here we go....

15. Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
14. Liam Williams (Wales)
13. George North (Wales)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Ireland) - [EDIT] Should mention Farrell was a close call, but on current form....
11. Louis Rees-Zammit (Wales)
10. Johnny Sexton (Ireland) - Would be Biggar if not for Murray at 9.
9. Conor Murray (Ireland)
8. Sam Simmonds (England) - Made No.6 a problem as I would have gone for Faletau in SS's absence.
7. Tom Curry (England)
6. Taulupe Faletau (Wales) - Seriously difficult choice between TF and Navidi.
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Wales) - Captain
4. Jonny Gray (Scotland)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)
2. Ken Owens (Wales)
1. Joe Marler (England) - Can't stand him, but a hell of a scrummager which will be needed against SA.

Well, for me it's 6 for Wales, 2 for Scotland, 4 for Ireland and 3 for England - like I said, some bias! :neener: :wink:

Shall we make it a bit of fun? Select your XV starters for the 1st Test. 5 points for the correct player in the correct position, 3 points for the correct player starting the match in a diferent position, 1 point for the player being in the match day 22/25? Oh, and a bonus 10 for captain?

[EDIT] If injured, replace the player before the May 6th announcement (see George North)?

:cheers: :cheers:
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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I've always wondered why Germany is the way it is concerning Rugby Union. The below 2018 article explains a lot.

Why Germany went from European rugby royalty to paupers

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/c ... 87265.html

Last Saturday was a day a rugby dream died.

When the final whistle blew in the Rugby World Cup Qualifier between Canada and Germany, the dreams of Germany’s rugby players were left in tatters.

The 29-10 loss knocked them out of contention — and out of meaningful international rugby for the foreseeable future.

Over the last decade and more, the Germans had sought to establish themselves as a significant international team. They were bankrolled by the family who made their fortune from Capri-Sun soft drinks—– to the tune of some €20m.

There are 3,000 men playing the game in the country’s 120 rugby clubs but, of course, in the modern era of professional rugby, developing a national team requires sustained, targeted investment.

And so it was that an academy was established in Heidelberg and development was such that in 2017, Heidelberg RK qualified to compete in the European Challenge Cup.

Instead of being a marker of progress, this proved to be the beginning of the end.

The Capri-Sun backers had also bought Stade Français in Paris and were now instructed by the authorities that they needed to get rid of one of their teams. They got rid of Heidelberg.

This was compounded by the unravelling of relations at national federation level and has left the German national team desperately in need of new funding.

None has yet emerged. In the run up to the World Cup Qualifiers, the Germans had appointed Mike Ford — who had previously been involved in coaching Ireland — to be their national coach.

But defeat to Canada means that the professional ambitions of Germany’s best players have been destroyed.

And, in the process, the most promising opportunities for international rugby to deepen the global reach of rugby has also suffered a significant blow.

The thing is that it would not have taken a whole lot for Germany to have become a dominant power in European rugby when the game spread across the continent in the late 19th century.

Indeed, it is a basic fact that rugby was played in Germany (and Holland, indeed), before ever it was played in France.

This European spread of rugby has been brilliantly chronicled by Tony Collins in his book, The Oval World: A Global History of Rugby.

Collins records how there was actually a rugby club at Heidelberg College in 1870. At the other end of the 1870s, there were clubs established such as DFV Hannover and FC 1880 Frankfurt (itself the merger of several existing clubs).

These were the first football clubs of any sort established in Germany.

The story of rugby in Germany is that it was a game initially played only by a small elite, but it grew steadily and by the end of the 19th century, there were 19 clubs in the country and it was played in some schools.

Altogether, there was enough interest to form a German Rugby Union in 1899 — the Deutsche Rugby Verband.

The following year, an annual north versus south match was established and then in 1909 a club championship was set up.

The model for growing rugby on the European continent was France. Although rugby was slower to start in France than in Germany, it had a vital powerful champion in Baron Pierre de Coubertin — the famed founder of the modern Olympics.

De Coubertin loved all things English — and viewed their sports as fundamental to the success of the British Empire.

He toured the elite public schools of England and wrote that, when he stood in the chapel at Rugby School, he “dreamed that I saw before me the cornerstone of the British Empire”.

With de Coubertin as a cheerleader, the elite schools of France (the lycées) took on rugby as their game and by 1890 it was established as fundamental to the curriculum of many schools.

In the middle decades of the 20th century, despite the growth of soccer in the country, rugby also prospered in Germany.

Just as in France, the elite schools of the country were important to its growth and by 1927, Germany was fielding an international team.

Germany then acted as a founder member — along with France and Italy — of the Fédération Internationale de Rugby Amateur in 1934.

France was the more important country in that association, but Germany were no mere makeweights.

Indeed, between 1927 and 1938, Germany played France every year. France usually won, and sometimes they won handsomely, but they did not always do so.

When the teams met in Frankfurt in 1928, Germany won by 17-16.

In the second half of the 1930s, the margins between the teams were always very small.

Two matches in 1938 seemed to confirm that Germany had truly arrived as a rugby power.

By then, the Germans were regularly beating every other country in Europe who played rugby — notably Romania and Italy — but France were the benchmark.

In the first match in Berlin, France conceded an early penalty which was successfully kicked by the German full-back Georg Isenberg.

For the rest of the match, the French engaged in ever more frantic efforts to get a score of their own.

But time and again they were repelled by the Germans who ran out 3-0 winners.

Later that year, the two teams progressed to meet in the final of 1938 European Rugby Championship — played between all the countries of Europe with the exception of England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland.

The final was played in Bucharest and the Germans were brilliant in the first half, leading on the strength of a try scored by their captain, Karl Loos.

This time, however, they could not hold out against the French attackers and they lost by just three points.

The other great rivals of the Germans at this time were the Italians.

The Italians had themselves taken to the game when it was introduced in Genoa by English expatriates in the 1890s, while ships of the British Royal Navy Mediterranean Fleet also saw men go to shore to play rugby on Italian soil.

Germany played an international against the Italians in Stuttgart on May 5,1940.

This was a mere five days before the German army invaded France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

It is singular fact that the growth of rugby in the 1930s in both Germany and Italy was driven by fascism.

The Federazione Italiana Rugby was a tool, at least in part, of the efforts of Benito Mussolini’s fascist regime to use sport to promote the nation and fascist ideology.

The fact that the Italians won the soccer world cups of 1934 and 1938 stunted the growth of rugby, but it continued to be viewed as a game that was ideal for Italian elite society.

In Germany, the support of fascism was even more central to the growth of rugby. One of Adolf Hitler’s most important lieutenants — Albert Speer — saw rugby as a vehicle to promote the ambitions of the Nazis and promoted the game in the country.

By the outbreak of the Second World War, there were more than 50 clubs and almost 2,000 registered rugby players in Germany.

But if the ambitions of the Nazis helped build rugby, those same ambitions caused its destruction in Germany — rugby in the country could not survive the war.

In the course of the war, 16 men who had won rugby caps for Germany were killed.

This is more than any other country involved in the war, even though Germany had been a test playing country only for 14 years.

It says much for the destruction of rugby in Germany that in 1946 a military team drawn from the New Zealand Army — known as the Khaki All Blacks — toured Britain, Ireland, France, and Germany.

But when they came to Germany, they played only two teams drawn from the British armed forces.

As Tony Collins wrote: ‘By now there was no native German rugby — like culture and civilisation, itself, the game had been swept away by Hitler’s Götterdämmerung.’

It is true that there was a recovery of sorts in the 1950s and teams representing West Germany and East Germany were fielded in European matches.

But they could never again really threaten France — or even Italy and Romania.

The momentum that had once driven the sport had been lost at a crucial time and in an appalling way.

And in sport, timing and momentum lost at a crucial time can never properly be recovered.
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Re: The Rugby Thread

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I've taken pharvey's selection and fiddled with it, as I could see mine wasn't going to be vastly different.
The captaincy is slightly complicated in that AWJ is not an automatic choice at lock, and there are plenty of good options in that position.
I've gone with Farrell because I think he'll benefit from being outside Russell, and because he's such a handy bloke to have in the side for his kicking ability.
Back row - an embarrassment of riches. Simmonds deserves it, but will his lack of international experience go against him? Will Vunipola even be in the squad? A bit of a lottery for those 3 spots.

15. Stuart Hogg (Scotland) - one of the few whose name must be inked in for the starting XV
14. Liam Williams (Wales)
13. Robbie Henshaw (Ireland)
12. Owen Farrell (England)
11. Louis Rees-Zammit (Wales) - Okay, I'll give you that, but I'll be surprised if he's selected
10. Finn Russell (Scotland) - Can't stand the bloke, but would like to see him play with a really good team behind him.
9. Conor Murray (Ireland)
8. Sam Simmonds (England)
7. Tom Curry (England)
6. Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Wales) - Captain - but may occasionally be an absent captain...
4. Maro Itoje (England) - an absolute shoo-in, can't be left out
3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)
2. Ken Owens (Wales)
1. Joe Marler (England) - Wynn Jones has to be thereabouts, so Marler had better be on top form
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