The Rugby Thread

[pharvey]

JPR Williams - my hero!

And mine!!

[pharvey]

Well, it was certainly a wake up call for the Lions against the (so-called) South Africa A team (18 RWC squad members in the Matchday 23).....

Bit of a mixed bag from the Lions - I thought "Captain Murray" had a dire game (following some poor performances thus far). Farrell at 10 wasn't much better - a dire first half followed by a slightly better second half. Daley, Itoje and Curry stood out for me, others like Wyn Jones and Faletau (at 8 ) had some significant moments with all Front Row players pretty solid. LRZ did a lot of work off the ball but won't be in the starting Test XV I feel.

Murry must have concerns over his Test place considering performances so far and the fact that (originally selected) Tour Captain AWJ has just arrived....

I would have selected Biggar over Farrell before last night's game, but after that display, Farrell could have played himself out of the Test side....

A fair amount of work to do before the Test series - Saturday is the last game before the series.... Team news to follow..

[dtaai-maai]

I was waiting with interest for you to post, Pietro, and you haven't disappointed! Murray was indeed awful, and Davies wasn't much better, which may be why they've called up another scrum half (I think I saw this somewhere recently, or am I imagining it?).

I reckon Murray, Farrell and LRZ (to name but 3) have played themselves out of the starting line-up, if not the 23. I'd add A Watson to the (fairly short) list of those who played well.

A sobering experience for the Lions, but the South African defence, especially on their line, was outstanding. I think the game was lost during that period just before half time when the Lions didn't manage to get over the line. The battering ram approach was overdone. Also some lessons to be learned about not kicking possession away, particularly to someone capable of running rings around the Lions defence!

I also never cease to be amazed at some of the unnecessary penalties given away by forwards, particularly in the maul, and at crucial moments. Are they as brainless as backs always imply? Don't they know the laws, or do they just forget them in the heat of the moment?

EDIT: AWJ's return is of course welcome news, as the Lions need a real captain, both on and off the pitch. It's unfortunate that 2nd row is the one area where the Lions already have an abundance of riches - someone is going to be bitterly disappointed.

[dtaai-maai]

British and Irish Lions: Hogg: Adams, Daly, Henshaw, Van der Merwe; Smith, Price, Sutherland, Cowan-Dickie, Furlong, Beard, Hill, Beirne, H Watson, Conan

Replacements: George, Vunipola, Fagerson, AW Jones, Simmonds, Davies, Harris, Rees-Zammit

Daly's getting a lot of game time. I'm sure he'll feature in the test 23...
And pharvey's pretty boy pet hate Marcus Smith starts at fly half. Interesting - if he plays well, he might get a place among the replacements.
Will 20-30 minutes be enough to get AWJ a place in the test XV?

[pharvey]

Yes - just saw the team. As expected, wholesale changes and I'm sure we'll see AWJ on in the 2nd half for a good run-out.

To add to the comments RE: South Africa "A", there are other issues with Murray - namely decision making. You mention the "battering ram" approach with the numerous penalties on the SA line - why oh why didn't they select the scrum? SA were two down (Yellow Cards) in the pack?!

As for too many penalties given away.... Well personally I thought SA got away with a few there! Some comments regarding de Klerk not receiving a Red Card for "Head-o-Head" contact (which there certainly was)...

Spot of "On Field Coaching....."? "Waterboy" and Director of South African Rugby - Rassie Erasmus.... Minus the water!!
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[dtaai-maai]

As for too many penalties given away.... Well personally I thought SA got away with a few there!

Yes, and their 'rush defence' seemed to my non-refereeing eye to do more than flirt with offside on numerous occasions.

Spot of "On Field Coaching....."? "Waterboy" and Director of South African Rugby - Rassie Erasmus.... Minus the water!!

I had to laugh when that was pointed out (by Will Greenwood, I think, who I find slightly irritating). He's done it before apparently. I don't suppose it makes a real difference. I can't imagine Warren Gatland entertaining the idea of doubling as a water carrier!

[pharvey]

Yes, and their 'rush defence' seemed to my non-refereeing eye to do more than flirt with offside on numerous occasions.

Indeed - the ref was "lenient" at times to say the least. Not trying to justify the B&I Lions' loss, but....... There's also the fact that a South African ref refereeing South Africa "A" could (or should) be brought into question (although Barnes is Linesman)....

Spot of "On Field Coaching....."? "Waterboy" and Director of South African Rugby - Rassie Erasmus.... Minus the water!!

I had to laugh when that was pointed out (by Will Greenwood, I think, who I find slightly irritating). He's done it before apparently. I don't suppose it makes a real difference. I can't imagine Warren Gatland entertaining the idea of doubling as a water carrier!

I can't see it making a difference either quite frankly, but a few of Gatland's comments were funny.

As I was streaming the match, I watched it on a South African channel (ever so slightly biased ) so thankfully didn't get to hear Greenwood who I also find irritating at the best of times. That said, I'm sure I'd heard Nigel Owens was on the SKY Team - would have been interesting to hear his thoughts...

[dtaai-maai]

That said, I'm sure I'd heard Nigel Owens was on the SKY Team - would have been interesting to hear his thoughts...

Yes, it was indeed interesting. They referred to him quite regularly. I suppose he has to be fairly diplomatic (I'm sure there's a referees union! ), but he didn't always agree with the decisions, and 2 or 3 times pointed out a clearly wrong decision. More importantly, he explains the decisions and the relevant laws (they always seem to be changing), which is very helpful even to someone like me, who has played and followed the game forever. When he was refereeing, he usually provided better commentary than the commentators!*

But I've always liked Jako Piper [?] as a ref. Calm and authoritative, always in control, and usually with a smile on his face. I can't imagine him, or any other professional referee (even Barnes! ), being anything other than objective.

I was watching one of the home internationals recently - can't remember which one, possibly Wales-Canada - and the referee was from an unusual nation, maybe Ukraine or Georgia. He didn't say much over the ref mike, all you could hear was his heavy breathing! It's easy to forget that refs at this level also have to be super-fit, especially when they get into their 40's.

*At one point someone asked Owens if he paid attention to all the chat from the forwards at scrum time. He said something like "Of course, they're the only ones that really know what's going on in there!"

[pharvey]

*At one point someone asked Owens if he paid attention to all the chat from the forwards at scrum time. He said something like "Of course, they're the only ones that really know what's going on in there!"

A fair amount of truth there I think!!

[pharvey]

This looks interesting - oddly enough the link to view will be provided next week.... Although will obviously be available on SKY and no doubt through the likes of buffstreams.tv [EDIT] May even be free through the Lions site (and pigs might fly... )....
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[pharvey]

^ Oh, and a FULL day of Rugby...
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[dtaai-maai]

^^Thanks for that, Pietro. Just watched the 1st half of Aus-France. Good game, the Aussies doing well considering they lost a man to an iffy red card after 4 minutes.

[pharvey]

^^Thanks for that, Pietro. Just watched the 1st half of Aus-France. Good game, the Aussies doing well considering they lost a man to an iffy red card after 4 minutes.

Caught the last 20 mins or so of the 1st half, so missed the Red Card - the stream I'm watching showing no highlights/commentary at halftime at all. Still, looks a good game!!

[pharvey]

Well, a truly abysmal display by the men in red - not one deserving of a place for the forthcoming Test matches quite frankly!!

Thankfully, the Lions fared somewhat better!!

The Stormers were 7 or 8 players lite who were on SA duty, so despite a very comfortable victory, a few things for the Lions to think about. I'm changing my mind every other day with regards to the Test XV..

Marcas "The Wendyballer" Smith had quite the debut and despite not getting a fecking hairdcut, certainly did nothing wrong. Despite some (very) poor displays, I can still see Farrell on the bench as cover for 10/12/13 though (Biggar starting at 10).

VDM again showed his attacking abilities but had zero really to do in defence, where I still think he has weaknesses. I'm sure though has now done enough to start with Adams on the opposite wing. Completing the Back Three is between Hogg and Watson I think (Williams on the bench(?))....

Centers - I'm (now ) going for Daly & Henshaw..... Farrell has certainly played himself out of the Test XV IMO.

Scrumhalf? Christ, who knows... I just can't see it being Murray.

Beard and Hill both had solid games once again and both crossing the line. Itoje is a cert for the Test side and the other starting place is between these 2 IMO. The other will have to take on AWJ for a place on the bench.

Cowan-Dickie is a must IMO and should start alongside Wyn Jones and Tadhg Furlong in the Front Row..

Backrow..... VERY difficult. Hamish Watson is a must at Openside and Faletau needs to be there. The question is, do you move him to Blindside to accommodate Simonds at 8, or put Simmonds on the bench to bring on against tired legs (the latter I feel). If the latter, then who's at Blindside? Do you bring in Curry who's been superb, BUT is a natural Openside - or do you bring in Lawes to give an extra lineout option and who's a menace in the lose and maul....

OK, I'm boring myself now.... Sorry

[dtaai-maai]

It was a pretty ordinary first 20 minutes by the Lions, but thankfully they got their act together after that and improved as the game went on. One thing I'm slightly concerned about is that the game plan seems to be very focused on the forwards, and I'm not convinced that's the best way to go against the Boks. And they're still persisting with the largely futile tap & go penalty near the line.

Yes, Smith did himself no harm at all, though how he can concentrate with that hair flicking in his eyes all the time is beyond me. Didn't miss a kick either. If Biggar gets injured again it will be interesting to see who Gatland goes with.

I don't see Hogg featuring. Williams or Watson at 15. Daly at 13 or on the bench. I thought Price played well at scrum half, and no one else appears to be claiming that spot... I felt Adams on the wing came down to earth with a bump today, but he may have enough credit in the bank to persuade Gatland to go with him.

Your front row starting with George and Vunipola on the bench. The Scottish loose head today was poor.

The back row is anybody's guess. I doubt even Gatland knows yet!