Electric Vehicles (EV) Thread

Driving and riding in Hua Hin and Thailand, all topics on cars, pickups, bikes, boats, licenses, roads, and motoring in general.
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KhunLA
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Re: Electric Cars

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lindosfan1 wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:54 pm
hhinner wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:58 pm Just curious. Car values obviously drop over their lifetimes. But how do the batteries affect the value of EVs? If batteries need replacing after say 8 years, how is the value affected as the car's age approaches 7 then 8 years? Then how is it going to be affected when the batteries have just been replaced after 8 years? As with ICE cars, will the resale value differ in different markets?
That is another problem would you buy a secondhand car, how much has the battery quality dropped. It costs thousands
to replace, would you buy a second hand car when the most expensive component is the battery :banghead:
The batteries don't need replacing, after the 8 yr warranty, unless you really rack up the kms. Simply don't have full capacity, which I believe is warranted to about 80%. Even then, replacing the cells of the pack, may be sufficient to recover capacity, as 1 bad cell will affect the others. As far as buying 1 used, surely the specs & capacity test would be the first thing advertised. No different than any other electronics (laptop / phone) purchase.

Saw one vid. of Tesla after 4 yrs, and only lost 2% of battery capacity. Impressive I thought. The electric motors themselves, would probably outlast the rest of the car or me, at my age. Even if replacing the whole battery pack, the used one could be utilized use elsewhere, maybe as a bank for a solar system. Everyone should be going solar anyway, and more battery banks the better, for that overcast rainy season. It's still a rechargeable battery, even at 70-60-50% of 50kWh, that's a lot of juice. Would easily run a small house for 1 or 3 days, as presently I use approx. 20kWh a day, 600 PEA units a month on average @ about ฿2700. Most I know use less. Beats running a generator on brown outs, or power outage.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by lindosfan1 »

Khunt A wrote
The electric motors themselves, would probably outlast the rest of the car or me, at my age. Even if replacing the whole battery pack, the used one could be utilized use elsewhere, maybe as a bank for a solar system. Everyone should be going solar anyway, and more battery banks the better, for that overcast rainy season. It's still a rechargeable battery, even at 70-60-50% of 50kWh, that's a lot of juice. Would easily run a small house for 1 or 3 days, as presently I use approx. 20kWh a day, 600 PEA units a month on average @ about ฿2700. Most I know use less. Beats running a generator on brown outs, or power outage.
1. The comments was about batteries not the motor.
2. Reuse a battery pack you are dreaming
3. We are not talking about solar power and house we are talking about cars.
4 So would you buy a ten year old second hand electric car?
5 You have not mentioned the cost of a new battery pack just what to do with the old one, which could seil ignite in
your house.
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Re: Electric Cars

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The reality is that we’re still in the infancy of EV battery technology, so who knows what awaits in 5-10 years+? Already there are companies looking to reuse “spent” batteries for storage of solar power and other uses. Some companies are already recycling used batteries into new batteries.

At the moment, there’s little doubt that as EV cars approach their useful 8-10 year life and battery degradation starts to impact, they’ll be a corresponding reduction in their resale value. But 10 years from now there could be a number of new initiatives for replacing old batteries - I certainly don’t know the answers but I’m sure there are cleverer people working on possible solutions. So buying an EV car now has some extra risks, but they will probably be clearer and (hopefully) less of an issue as time moves on.
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Re: Electric Cars

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Dannie Boy wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:51 am The reality is that we’re still in the infancy of EV battery technology, so who knows what awaits in 5-10 years+? Already there are companies looking to reuse “spent” batteries for storage of solar power and other uses. Some companies are already recycling used batteries into new batteries.

At the moment, there’s little doubt that as EV cars approach their useful 8-10 year life and battery degradation starts to impact, they’ll be a corresponding reduction in their resale value. But 10 years from now there could be a number of new initiatives for replacing old batteries - I certainly don’t know the answers but I’m sure there are cleverer people working on possible solutions. So buying an EV car now has some extra risks, but they will probably be clearer and (hopefully) less of an issue as time moves on.
I saw one photo in a news-blip, they had stacks of used EV battery packs, being charged by solar, at a EV charging station. Thought that was damn ingenious.
https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2 ... -projects/

"The group ultimately found that used EV batteries purchased at 80 percent of their original capacity will deliver marginally better revenues for the solar plant than a similar bank of new batteries. And if the solar farm can buy those batteries at 60 percent of original retail price, the farm can potentially even return a profit—all other factors being equal.

Mathews said EVs are still coming online in small enough numbers that their used battery packs haven’t yet become a big or noticeable force to reckon with. But he expects in a few years’ time, that will probably change. Used EV batteries could become so widely available that they’d be valuable for any number of energy storage applications."
https://spectrum.ieee.org/used-ev-batte ... oggle-gdpr

"The first batches of batteries from electric and hybrid vehicles are hitting retirement age, yet they aren’t bound for landfills. Instead, they’ll spend their golden years chilling beer at 7-Elevens in Japan, powering car-charging stations in California and storing energy for homes and grids in Europe."
https://www.powervault.co.uk/article/wh ... ey-retire/
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Re: Electric Cars

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The following is an interesting article about EV batteries. As noted, it is all about money. At the moment it is cheaper to mine most materials used to manufacture the batteries, than it is to recycle old ones.

There really needs to be some form of control at government level to ensure that used batteries are recycled, preferably by the original manufacturer.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02222-1

Electric cars and batteries: how will the world produce enough?

Reducing the use of scarce metals — and recycling them — will be key to the world’s transition to electric vehicles.
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Re: Electric Cars

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For now, it seems that the best option would be an elec/petrol engine, like a Toyota Prius.
You could use the EV around town and switch to petrol for longer trips.
The greenies won't like that but the world is not ready for all EV vehicles.
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Re: Electric Cars

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It would have to be the Prius PHEV (which is now available in Thailand) to be able to selectively drive in electric mode in town and in petrol mode on the highway as the normal Prius Hybrid EV can only manage very short distances in EV mode. The majority of PHEV’s have a 50-60 km range, so more than suitable for commuter type journeys, but with an ICE for backup on longer journeys.
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Re: Electric Cars

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An interesting one on the subject.....

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0bkrk32 ... as-crushed

:cheers: :cheers:
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Re: Electric Cars

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pharvey wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:13 pm An interesting one on the subject.....

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0bkrk32 ... as-crushed

:cheers: :cheers:
How could GM force the owners to return the cars?
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Re: Electric Cars

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handdrummer wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:10 pm
pharvey wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:13 pm An interesting one on the subject.....

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0bkrk32 ... as-crushed

:cheers: :cheers:
How could GM force the owners to return the cars?
Money, also called a bribe!
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Re: Electric Cars

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Dannie Boy wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:05 pm It would have to be the Prius PHEV (which is now available in Thailand) to be able to selectively drive in electric mode in town and in petrol mode on the highway as the normal Prius Hybrid EV can only manage very short distances in EV mode. The majority of PHEV’s have a 50-60 km range, so more than suitable for commuter type journeys, but with an ICE for backup on longer journeys.
I googled Toyota Prius PHEV for sale in Thailand and nothing appeared.
In the US you can buy one for $17,000 (569,5000 baht, today)
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Re: Electric Cars

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handdrummer wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:10 pm How could GM force the owners to return the cars?
They were leased.
Excellent 'documentary' about that; "Who killed the electric car"
https://watchdocumentaries.com/who-kill ... ctric-car/
Shows the true hypocrisy of it all at the time. Make no mistake, big oil IS and WILL be in control for another decade or 2.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by STEVE G »

I think that the influx of cheap Chinese electric cars into Thailand will be very popular and the roads will soon be full of them.
People will be more influenced by the much cheaper fuel costs compared with ICE vehicles at todays oil prices than worrying about where lithium comes from or whatever.
I'm increasingly hearing of people with cars taking long distance journeys by other means because of the high costs. There's not much point having a vehicle with unlimited range if it's too expensive to utilise.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by pharvey »

KhunLA wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:16 pm Excellent 'documentary' about that; "Who killed the electric car"
https://watchdocumentaries.com/who-kill ... ctric-car/
Seems an excellent site, thanks for the link - look forward to seeing the documentary! :thumb:
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Dannie Boy »

An article about the second life for EV Batteries,
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/tech ... ed-storage
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