Electric Vehicles (EV) Thread

[Dannie Boy]

BYD launches Dolphin EV in Thailand at price parity with popular ICE cars:
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/22/by ... -vehicles/

There’s a new BYD showroom just before you reach Cha Am, next to the Mitsubishi dealer - I must stop and take a look at the cars to see what the quality looks like?

[Dannie Boy]

Another development in EV battery technologies, but as with most of the others, there’s a drawback - but let’s hope that this or one of the others manages to make it beyond the development stage and into real-world production.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/scienc ... ge-energy/

[Dannie Boy]

You won’t be able to read the full article, however the opening few lines are enough to set in panic for current or future potential EV buyers - again this is a UK article so Thailand might not face the same issues, but I presume many other countries will?

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/busi ... es-plummet

[2/cb]

An excellent down-to-earth YouTube channel is ‘Geoff Buys Cars’. UK based, and gives much needed perspective on the EV v ICE discussion.

[brianks]

I just logged into this thread and find the whole EV thing a bunch of baloney. I recently purchased a new City Hatchback and considered the Hybrid vs gas motor. Did the math on the cost of both models. At the end of 10 years your Hybrid was worth "0" (because you had to replace the battery) and the gas model still had value in addition to the savings of the Hybrid not being anywhere near the difference in price over the gas model. Easy decision for me.

Just read an article about crashed EV cars in the UK and their value after the crash because the batteries are unrepairable and have to be replaced.

Who is really perpetrating this fraud on the public?

[Dannie Boy]

I just logged into this thread and find the whole EV thing a bunch of baloney. I recently purchased a new City Hatchback and considered the Hybrid vs gas motor. Did the math on the cost of both models. At the end of 10 years your Hybrid was worth "0" (because you had to replace the battery) and the gas model still had value in addition to the savings of the Hybrid not being anywhere near the difference in price over the gas model. Easy decision for me.

Just read an article about crashed EV cars in the UK and their value after the crash because the batteries are unrepairable and have to be replaced.

Who is really perpetrating this fraud on the public?

I think that saying after 10 years your hybrid will be worthless is stretching the issue a bit far. No doubt the battery will be way past its best, but still have some performance left in it. Ten years is also a significantly long time in terms of battery technology development - although by no means guaranteed, there’s a reasonable chance by then, that replacement, more affordable replacement batteries will be available. At worst, you’ll still have a car with an ICE engine to continue your travels, albeit carrying a bit of excess baggage!!

None of the maths seems straightforward - you’ve painted a very pessimistic scenario - our friend KhunLA paints very optimistic scenarios - no doubt the reality is somewhere in between?

[KhunLA]

I think that saying after 10 years your hybrid will be worthless is stretching the issue a bit far. No doubt the battery will be way past its best, but still have some performance left in it. Ten years is also a significantly long time in terms of battery technology development - although by no means guaranteed, there’s a reasonable chance by then, that replacement, more affordable replacement batteries will be available. At worst, you’ll still have a car with an ICE engine to continue your travels, albeit carrying a bit of excess baggage!!

None of the maths seems straightforward - you’ve painted a very pessimistic scenario - our friend KhunLA paints very optimistic scenarios - no doubt the reality is somewhere in between?

Or possibly just reaching it's half life point ...
Along with all the cost of petrol & maintenance you spend over those 10 yrs, depending how many kms you racked up, the saving from having an EV would pay for a new car, or one hell of a down payment.

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[STEVE G]

I just logged into this thread and find the whole EV thing a bunch of baloney. I recently purchased a new City Hatchback and considered the Hybrid vs gas motor. Did the math on the cost of both models. At the end of 10 years your Hybrid was worth "0"....

I just had a quick look online and I couldn't find a 2013 Toyota Prius for anywhere near 0bt!

[KhunLA]

I just logged into this thread and find the whole EV thing a bunch of baloney. I recently purchased a new City Hatchback and considered the Hybrid vs gas motor. Did the math on the cost of both models. At the end of 10 years your Hybrid was worth "0"....

I just had a quick look online and I couldn't find a 2013 Toyota Prius for anywhere near 0bt!

Not seeing a lot of difference myself ... except, how much did it cost to operate & maintain that Accord ?

2013 Toyota Prius (MSRP) of $24,960 ... Prius Five coming in just under $31,000.

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2013 Honda Accord LX (MSRP) starting slightly over $22,000, ... top-level reaches about $34,000.

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Aside from MSRP /USA, I think, but aren't both imports here, so all things being equal, after 10 yrs, seem they are just about equal.

[Dannie Boy]

Thailand seems to have its own set of rules when it comes to the value of second hand cars - irrespective of whether they are EV’s or have ICE’s, but as the article I posted above shows, in the UK (and no doubt some other western countries) the price of second hand EV’s have taken a hit in the last 12 months - I doubt that the trend will change anytime soon.
Edit.. another gloomy article https://www.topgear.com/car-news/used-c ... re-falling

[KhunLA]

Thailand seems to have its own set of rules when it comes to the value of second hand cars - irrespective of whether they are EV’s or have ICE’s, but as the article I posted above shows, in the UK (and no doubt some other western countries) the price of second hand EV’s have taken a hit in the last 12 months - I doubt that the trend will change anytime soon.
Edit.. another gloomy article https://www.topgear.com/car-news/used-c ... re-falling

With all the negative press, that's not too surprising. People wanting the newer tech is one thing, but the Q's and price at charging stations would discourage anyone, if they actually go out & about once a month, or can't charge at home.

Nothing wrong with the cars, just the system has failed them ... and the usual suspects still control that. Why it took so long to mass produce them at a good price, and now, why they make it inconvenient to own.

Does that surprise anyone ?

[Dannie Boy]

Although some EV car manufacturers are better than others, I’m surprised that more manufacturers are not heavily investing in charging stations - that would boost their sales considerably?

[brianks]

The math I used to determine the cost of the gas vs hybrid amounted to a 100,000 thb difference between the cost of fuel for the gas vs gas savings for hybrid. Combine that with a battery that is beyond its shelf life at 10 years and the conclusion isn't hard to arrive at. AND to say nothing of getting in a crash and having the hybrid repaired and having to replace the very expensive battery because it is unrepairable.
Dream on and buy your EV or Hybrid and after 10 years we can compare the cost of operation and see who is right. The answer could be Hydrogen, but the cost of the fuel manufacture is way too high now. When they get a hydrogen car that can make its own fuel, then we have a real breakthrough.

[brianks]

ALSO hard to figure out what the real gas mileage is vs what the mfg. advertises. Our new city Hatchback real km/liter is getting about 7-8 km/liter less than advertised. Hybrid was advertised at least 5 km/liter more. I don't think my wife is that bad of a driver mostly around town here in rural Khanom.

[Dannie Boy]

The math I used to determine the cost of the gas vs hybrid amounted to a 100,000 thb difference between the cost of fuel for the gas vs gas savings for hybrid. Combine that with a battery that is beyond its shelf life at 10 years and the conclusion isn't hard to arrive at. AND to say nothing of getting in a crash and having the hybrid repaired and having to replace the very expensive battery because it is unrepairable.
Dream on and buy your EV or Hybrid and after 10 years we can compare the cost of operation and see who is right. The answer could be Hydrogen, but the cost of the fuel manufacture is way too high now. When they get a hydrogen car that can make its own fuel, then we have a real breakthrough.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I think you’re being far too pessimistic in your views about battery life. There’s no argument that batteries do degrade over time, however I’m not aware of many/any examples where suddenly after 10 years the battery gives up completely, it’s more of a steady gradual decline. I drive an MG HS PHEV which when new about 26 months ago, had a range of 67km. Now at just over two years old, the range when fully charged is 65 km - I make that 2km drop equivalent to about 3%, so after 10 years (assuming a linear drop-off) will be about 15% and a range of about 57km. Assuming these figures are accurate, I’m relatively happy!!