A question for small business owners in Thailand

[Pagey]

I think I know the answer most people will give but maybe as you are enjoying living in HH that may override the extra income.

I have been working in Saudi for 5 years. I don't like the place much and my boss is an a***hole. I have free accommodation,food,laundry and tax free pay. I have no property in the UK and no outgoings.

I have been looking at buying a business in LOS and I am looking at 2 when I come to HH next week. At the moment they are not fulfilling their possible potential and earn about 6,000 GBP per year. I have a minimum of 6,000 GBP investment income to add to that so judging by previous threads I can live on 12,000 GBP per year.

So here's my question :- If the business and accounts appear legit do I take the plunge and buy into one of them or do I stick it out in Saudi for 2 more years, build up 2 years more pension, get 2 years closer to receiving my pension, and bank 60,000 GBP, the equivalent of working 10 years in LOS if the business profit remains the same ?

My head says bank the 60k but my heart says move to LOS. There does come a point when you have enough money, otherwise I would be here for 20 years like some of the men here.

Come on guys, help me make up my mind !!

[buksida]

Depends on your personal situation, if its just you alone and you're pretty easy going, have an open mind and are not afraid of the unknown then take the plunge!

However if you have responsibilities and kids to feed or educate I would think twice and go with the security because there aint much here!

Just my two bahts worth!

[big jimmy]

If you can bank 60,000 pounds in two years you would be foolish to throw that away for the sake of two years. Worst case scenario you can stick that in the bank and get just under 3,000 pounds a year interest without any worry and that amount is half of your projected profit . Let someone else take the strain of running a business..believe me its not worth it...

[Nereus]

Like Buksi says; it depends on your personal situation, and age is also a very important consideration. I worked in the Middle East for several years, albiet on rotation, but I can fully understand you situation.

The old saying is, "a change is as good as a holiday". Is there anyway that you could have a change of scene and work in Dubai for a couple of years? It is still an Arab country, but compared to Saudi you would not notice. Yes, there comes a time when you have to say "enough", and for me I was forced into it through my health, before I was ready. If you are still fit and healthy, and not of retiring age, I would be cautious about buying a business here, even given your investment income. Another couple of years income will make your position a lot more flexible, and give you a bit more time to see which way this country is going.

[Pagey]

I am single, no kids, no ties, no outgoings apart from my beer

I am 47 years old and reasonably healthy although the waist is expanding and the hair receding.

My company don't have an office in Dubai so that's out of the question.

Even if I do not buy a business I could probably have 12,000 GBP in investment income by the end of this year. I always use conservative figures in my estimates or the worst case scenario.

[ozuncle]

Pagey,
You are obviously keen to make the move, but have reservations.

Why dont you split the difference and commit to working one more year and then retiring. The year will go very quickly and will give you time to fine tune your investments to enjoy maximum return for a low risk.

It will also give you more time to ask some more questions on this forum!
(Only Joking)

Even if things dont go as planned in HH you have not lost anything and are still young enough to go back to work for another couple of years.

Good luck with your decision.

[Mack111]

yeah i think you would find it hard making a living in HH (not impossible by any means) but one thing i've noticed from my older mates that have retired at your age is the get bored very quickly, perhaps a part time buiness is a good way to keep you active.

just my thoughts

[Pagey]

Ozuncle : Yes, many reservations hence all my questions ! Once I leave here though it will be for good so it's a big decision. And I am coming next week to look at business and a condo.

Mack111 : Correct. Boredom is another factor I have brought up in the past. I want something that will stop me going in the bar at lunchtime and staying the rest of the day.

Another factor at the moment is there are 2 businesses for sale, one has a good recognizable brand name and if progress can be made it will be a good investment. It is for sale by the brother of my colleague here in Saudi.
I have been looking at businesses other than a bar for a while and good ones are few and far between.

Please keep the comments coming, I am here until Saturday.

[Mack111]

Its might just be me but I find it interesting doing a bit of business and its keeps your mind active and lets you learn news things, I work in KL for an oil company but also have 2 businesses (just got them 2 months ago) with my wife here, none of them make that much cash but it keeps my wife busy and active and lets you meet some interesting people, I only spend a few hours a week helping her out which is enough for me

I’m a lot younger than you and not meaning to lecture you but the last thing you want is to climb into a Heineken bubble in HH, there’s more to life than that. Mind you I occasionally do have the odd 2 or 3 days when its beer only but I think best keeping that a part time pastime

[JW]

Good idea not to bother with a bar! Can you say what the businesses are that your looking at?

[bradders]

Hi Pagey - what a pleasant dilema you have young man!!

Buksida asked the important question and your reply opened the gates for members to form their opinion and have their say. Your personal situation & circumstances suggest you're as free as a bird - no restrictions whatsoever to hinder or influence your decision!! Lucky Duck

How many guys do you know who are in that somewhat enviable position -at an age when many are more likely to be 'balled & chained' with responsibilities and commitments! (Mortgage - education fees etc)

You don't appear to be a 'greedy' person Pagey - if you were I'm sure you wouldn't be "asking the question" about the 60k you can bank over the next two years - you would simply do it!

You mention you 'have enough money to see you through', especially in Thailand where your pennies will go so much further than most places. You have the option to retire or semi retire - the latter option partly - if not wholly - is being considered to avoid boredom and avoid being enticed into drowning through over indulgance!

There's been some good and balanced advice offered to you - summary:

Big Jimmy suggests you continue working and bank the 60k - You said it Pagey - it will take you circa 10 years to 'earn' that from buying and running a business in HH (and one assumes you will have to part with money to purchase the business) BJ also suggested running a business is not worth it - I'm sure he wouldn't have said that without good reason(s).

Nereus agreed with BJ and suggests you bank the 60k - and added the political scene may be clarified in two years time - maybe not - but possibly & hopefully a few less clouds!!?

Mac111 warned of boredom which, as you agreed, concerns you. Mack111 appears to have found a his balanced solution by owning two businesses - but he has a wife to oversee things when he's home or away whereas you are (currently) a single guy.

Ozuncle's suggestion you 'split the difference' may be the way to go - an extra 30k sterling will obviously feather your well feathered nest even more!!

I'm in Dubai Pagey which, as Nereus acknowledges, is a 'different' world compared to Saudi. I've been here 20 years now and I'm older than you so my decision is FAR easier - I can't wait to get to Thailand to retire and hopefully I'll like HH enough when I go there to make it my home!!

For all the good and balanced advice you have received and will receive I think it's really YOUR call my friend!

You'll be in HH soon - maybe that's when you'll make the decision - hopefully governed by both your heart and your mind!!!

Whatever you decide Pagey - I wish you well!!!! - and hope to see you in HH - be it this year - next year - or in two years time!!

PLEASE let us all know what you decide to do - we're all in suspenders!!

bradders

[Pagey]

Bradders, thanks for that post. I am not sure about being a lucky duck though, I am sure a married man with a beautiful Thai wife and children would disagree but each to his own.

And yes I know it's my call, I just wanted opinions of people working in LOS already.

This trip is fact finding regarding the 2 businesses to enable me to make a decision or at least put an offer in. I need to study the accounts and satisfy myself it will work.

One of my worries is the visa issue, one of the businesses comes with a company and work permit and a visa I believe but no matter how many posts I read about visas I will never understand them ! Apart from a retirement visa at 50, 3 years away for me.

I will be there from July 16th so anyone there at that time who wants to meet for a drink and offer advice or discuss living and working in LOS then send me a PM or post a reply.

[barrys]

Hi Pagey

I wish you all the best with your plans.
I started a small business after I got here and although it hasn't been plain sailing all the time (excuse the pun), it has been been a very valuable experience and with hard work it is possible to make a go of it.

I don't know what sort of business you envisage but it certainly would be advisable to learn the rudiments of the Thai language, especially if you are on your own - it makes life so much easier.

Another point - a business cannot, as far as I'm aware, come with a work permit and a visa. These are specific to the individual and not the company. As long as you and the company fulfill the requirements, there is no problem, however.
I have used a law/accounting office in HH that I would recommend in this respect and they have dealt with everything very efficiently. If you need more details or info, you can PM me.

I would be delighted to meet you for a pint when you get to HH.

[buksida]

As JW asked, what business types are they?

There are many successful businesses here but in order to make one you cant just rock up, buy it and expect to get rich. They take a LOT of hard work, decent reliable staff, professional marketing, good contacts (its a small town) and did I mention a lot of hard work - you may end up working harder here than you are now.

There are also many failed businesses here because they were bought for a girlfriend, the owners had no business sense or didnt care, no investment was put into it, the owners got ripped off by dodgy partners and so forth.

Additionally there are the ever changing goal posts in that labyrinthine world of visas, work permits and foreign company requirements, this has got progressively worse over the past ten years. And on top of all that if it does start to get successful some arsehole will copy it, setup next door and under cut you ... happens all too often in this town.

Just more food for thought

[webmaster]

I believe this should be a sticky/must read post, since it asks the right questions and gets the answers for most of the people who are considering to move to Thailand, for what ever the reason/age/situation they might be in.

My own answer/advise will be similar to Buksida's lines but a bit more strict/harsh:

- Don't start a business in Thailand unless you have lived here for enough time to speak/understand the language or accept/adjust/make sense of the culture.

- You are ready to accept that, you can loose all the property/business investment in a day (or get arrested/deported), because the government decided to change the foreign ownership/shares/visa/work permit regulations, even after doing legal business in your registered company for the last years.

- Please re-re-re-re-read the "Culture Shock Thailand" as well as "Thais MEAN business" books, a few times before and after you start your Thailand experience (did I say re-re...).

I know I will be criticised for what I have just written, but TIT.