Tax residency in Thailand and taxing overseas income

[Martinoo]

To me it didn’t sound like utter BS - the two key issues seem to be that the monthly income route is going to mean a visit to the tax office whereas the 400/800k in the bank route doesn’t. There’s obviously more to it than that but they were the two key issues that I picked up.


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That is correct, but that was always the next logical step for Tax and Immi department, link the information
I looked more at the context of the email

[Hahuahin]

So, is it now a law already that if you transfer 65k monthly or use income letter and pay tax on the total annually you must bring with Income tax payment certificate R.O.21 when applying for retirement extension or is this only future planning?
Thanks
hahuahin

[Big Boy]

The video says for visa renewal starting next year.

[Hahuahin]

The video says for visa renewal starting next year.

Ok, I did only skim through parts so don't get with me that. Well optimistically thinking should R.O.21 that show payment on taxes for 800K or more be enough for the financial prove of extension and not a pile with copies of statements, bank books and credit advice`s but yes, I know dream on
hahuahin

[Big Boy]

When I did my tax this year, I was given a slip of paper upon completion. I'd guess that is all that they will be looking for for this year and next. Don't forget, they will look for previous years and have listed fines, interest rates, etc. for those who ignored the requirement.

[buksida]

I guess it will come down to the first Guinea Pig that goes in January and tries to renew a retirement extension on the income route and gets rejected or fined. There could be a lot of people switching to marriage visas and leaving the 400k in the bank, and immigration doesn't like doing marriage visas as its a lot more work for them (and they're sent to Bangkok). But then, how long until this cohort needs to show tax paperwork? It's all a matter of time, the net is closing.

[Hahuahin]

When I did my tax this year, I was given a slip of paper upon completion. I'd guess that is all that they will be looking for for this year and next. Don't forget, they will look for previous years and have listed fines, interest rates, etc. for those who ignored the requirement.

Probably only the receipt they mentioned to you (Yellow writing that says revenue office and with the Thai emblem!) which says what you have paid in tax but not how much you have paid tax on. They really know how to go to great lengths to make unnecessary documentation for retired and likewise applicants for visa extensions to ensure that the money comes in no matter how correctly the retired expats and tax residents follow the rules and laws. So by only showing the receipt for having paid tax and not the R.O.21 (Income tax payment certificate) where the amount of tax you have paid on is stated, which should be more than enough of proof for visa extension either its 400k or 800K Well where I come from, we say to such attitudes; I feel sorry for them
hahuahin

[Big Boy]

Does it matter to Immigration what you've paid and on how much? That is surely the job of the tax office to get right. All you should need is the proof you have reported and met the tax office demands.

[Dannie Boy]

Well that’s certainly what you’d expect BB, but then again we all know how they love to make simple things here more complicated - as Buks suggested, we might have to wait until January to find out!!


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[Hahuahin]

Does it matter to Immigration what you've paid and on how much? That is surely the job of the tax office to get right. All you should need is the proof you have reported and met the tax office demands.

Maybe I was misunderstood. Anyway, I think it should definitely mean a lot to the immigration authorities, tax authorities and us. As a retiree you have to show an amount of 800,000 in the bank or monthly transfers of 65,000, and as a married person either 400,000 in the bank or monthly transfers of 40,000. By equating these amounts, whether bank deposits or monthly transfers, with 800,000 (not 780,000) or 400,000 (not 480,000), it should be clear from either the R.O.21 or other receipt issued by the tax office that the person applying for either marriage or retirement extension is financially qualified, and the need for last day bank statements, bank letters and updating of bank books should and could then be eliminated....yes I know it will not happen its logic and more important the agent business and the source of income for the guys in brown will disappear
hahuahin

[Dannie Boy]

The problem with that, is the visa renewal could be many months after a tax certificate has been issued with no guarantee that the money still exists. Plus there will be some people who spend just under the six months in Thailand on a long-stay visa, but are not required to file a tax return.


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[404cameljockey]

I'm not seeking advice at the tax office just yet as I would like to know more about how they will assess my income (UK based), so am asking if anyone has a situation similar to mine.

Do the Thai tax authorities require a UK tax return and an HMRC tax assessment (whatever that is nowadays) to examine? I'm many years free of tax matters and resent jumping through new hoops, but I intend to continue to live in Thailand.

My income is basic UK state pension plus monthly gifts of a similar amount from my son. So I expect that I should probably pay a small amount of tax in the UK. Does the double tax agreement acknowledge the fact that most of this income is not assessable in the UK and so agree that no tax is payable on the bulk of it in Thailand? Or do they ignore the fact that it's not assessable in the UK?

I believe that I could decide to have the whole amount assessed in Thailand where tax rates are lower, but that's a whole other thing, which twists my melon!

Thanks for any gathered knowledge which you can pass on (without guaranteeing it, naturally).

[Big Boy]

What they did this year (supposedly going to change next year) was look at all income received from the UK. They deducted various bits that they could, and then applied Thai Tax to the remainder, which is what they asked you to pay.

However, if you could prove that you have already paid tax in the UK, they would convert the amount paid in Sterling to Thai Baht. It was then a case of deducting the amount paid in the UK from the amount due in Thailand. If the Thai amount was greater than already paid in the UK, then the balance still had to be paid in Thailand.

The hard bit for me was proving what I'd already paid. Despite having official UK documentation, they wanted somebody to validate the documentation was real. In my case, I had to contact a UK solicitor, who took my documentation to the Thai Embassy in London who confirmed the paperwork was authentic.

[Hahuahin]

The problem with that, is the visa renewal could be many months after a tax certificate has been issued with no guarantee that the money still exists. Plus there will be some people who spend just under the six months in Thailand on a long-stay visa, but are not required to file a tax return.


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I can follow your last sentence, but IMO visa class change from both the visa holder and Immigration policy. However, I don't understand the big problem by your first one. Since the tax is for the year before and if Revenue and immigration tried a little coordination then it doesn't matter which month you apply for renewal. And as far as I understand, coordination of these two agencies is the long-time goal and then there will have to be some small changes in both tax payment and Immigration policies and as a suggestion it could be adjusted so that those who have a renewal very early in the year get an extension of their renewal until 1. April during a transitional period or that it is made possible to use last tax payment year.
That being said, it's very possible I've left out things that make this impossible.
hahuahin

[404cameljockey]

Thanks BB, that's very helpful.

My only remaining question is how, for example, we can complete a tax return in January in Thailand for 2024 when we don't get a tax assessment in the UK until almost half way through 2025! I guess we simply don't fill in a Thai tax return until we get the tax statement from the UK?