The Pros and Cons of Thaksin

[GLCQuantum]

Before I start I would like to apologise to the moderators if this has been covered a million and 1 times before, but there are so many threads about Thaksin (AKA TOXIN) that I simply do not have time to go through them all!

It has now been a while since Thaksin was booted out by a military coup and I'm interested in the expats and Thais views on how life has changed for the better, for the worse or has not changed at all since the demise of Thaksin.

For myself it has certainly changed for the worse regarding work permit regulations.

I have heard from a few Thais (and farangs) that the new (newish) government at one stage wanted to make everybody wear the same clothes that they did in Thailand 100 years ago, thus trying to turn back the time and move Thailand backwards.

Thaksin, as corrupt as he was, was trying to bring the country forward.

I'm trying to understand if the anger towards Thaksin, from the members of this forum, is because of the amount of money he managed to accumulate in his time ( as he is obviously an extremely clever man business wise ) OR are there things that he did whilst Prime Minister which affected them, but now have changed for the better.

Looking for the PROS and CONS here only. Not just slanderous remarks about the man.

[Vital Spark]

Good topic GLC: As a legally working farang here - nothing has changed for my husband and I since Toxin decided to be a bigwig in the UK football scene.

While he was in power he increased charges for renewing our Non-Imm B Visas (which we have to pay). Wonderful! We're needed here to educate the students so that they can compete and advance Thailand into a first- world nation. This is what he was hoping to do - but he has made it increasingly difficult and expensive for us to stay here. Mai khow chai...

I've been asking my students about the voting this coming weekend, and, surprisingly, the answers have been 50/50 on accepting the new constitution. Why? I ask them. Answers: They didn't like Taksin, but, they also don't like the Military Government. Most of them haven't even read the new constitution, and a lot of them tell me that they don't know, but they will speak to their Mum & Dad.

Sorry GLC, I've wandered Off Topic and onto this coming weekend's fiasco.

VS

[GLCQuantum]

Hi VS,

I am also a teacher. I have been teaching in Hua Hin for three years now and completely agree with and understand the statement below.

While he was in power he increased charges for renewing our Non-Imm B Visas (which we have to pay). Wonderful! We're needed here to educate the students so that they can compete and advance Thailand into a first- world nation. This is what he was hoping to do - but he has made it increasingly difficult and expensive for us to stay here. Mai khow chai...

I never actually saw any increases being made when he was in power as the school I am with covered the costs.

On the little wage that I earn, if I was paying out of my own pocket, that would have been a reason for me to dislike him.


Any more reasons for the liking or disliking of Thaksin?

[Wanderlust]

I din't like or trust the man from the moment he put all his business interests into his wife and children's names, just to circumvent the rule prohibiting him standing in an election. I always wondered what his motive could possibly be, and i have only ever come to one conclusion - money. I believe he used his position to further his own interests, while giving the (false) impression that he was improving the lot of the rural poor, but it was, in the main, just smoke and mirrors to hide the deals he was making to line his own pocket. This is not unusual in Thailand, but to me his moves were so blatant that i couldn't understand why he was so popular, but then of course he effectively gagged the media as well, so there was very little criticsm seen or heard. Having said all that, I don't know if there is anyone any better to run this country, and to be honest, I don't really believe that there are many politicians anywhere in the world that I think do the best for their country - there are always too many vested interests for them to do the job properly. A lot of politicians I am sure start out with the right intentions but get sidetracked into compromising their beliefs away, but I don't for a moment think Thaksin ever had anyone except himself in mind.

[lomuamart]

I'll try and give this a go:
About 7 odd years ago I walked into a friend's bar at lunchtime. There was this Chinese/Thai person running around a football field. I think it was Manchester United against the Thai national team. It was years ago.
"Who's that?" "It's the PM of Thailand, you idiot".
"So what? What difference is it going to make to me?"
"Wait and see" was the reply.
Now then......
All I can say is that I feel less welcome than I did 9 years ago. Money for a visa is neither here or there. Prices go up everywhere.
However, good old Khun Thaksin made sure that "Thai Rak Thai" gave everyone uocountry a good time. Have you ever been there OP?
Assuming you have, you'll surely understand the concept of Head Man and the 30 Baht healthcare system.
The healthcare is/was a major improvement in this country. The water buffalo and laptop computers for the kids and family never happened, did it?
Do rich Thai's pay tax? Of course not - TIT. So when some populist measures are introduced, they're overjoyed in the country.
When the money runs out, as it is here, who do you blame? Us of course.
So, money means everything for the visa, but it's just how hard they're trying to make it
I could go on and on, but the thing is that Khun Thaksin made a point of directing attention towards the farangs in this country as being the root of all evil.
Xenophobia at full steam.
It's not good for Thailand and it also isn't good for me.
Dog eat dog. And the man's living in the London and has bought a football team. I doubt that the UK authorities are too worried about his presence. They've got more important issues on their hands.
So, this is an attempt, very late on in the evening. It's not really well thought out, but I do feel that Khun Thaksin has a lot to answer for.
And I don't know why I've given him the honouric - he dosn't deserve it IMHO.

[dr dave soul monsta]

no pros with toxin, just pure CONS

[Roel]

Although not my cup of tea I was involved in a political "discussion" this week that ended abruptly and tells a lot about the way of thinking I guess. It went something like this:

Me: Are you a fan of Thaksin?

Thai: Yes, he good for Thai.

Me: Why is that?

Thai: He take care poor people.

Me: He might have given a few million to poor people in the provinces but he pocketed billions for himself.

Thai: They all do that.

END OF DISCUSSION

[Guess]

Thailand, like most of the countries in this region has been developing rapidly over the last thirty years. Unlike many it does not bear the shackles of communism that has hampered development in so many of its neighbors. Fortunately it has never been in the hands of a brutal dictatorial regime as has Myanmar.

What has held Thailand back a little in comparison with Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan and South Korea is that is has a slightly risky and corrupt image by the outside world. When foreign investment is concerned in Thailand is has been a case of softly softly.

However the economic development has been inevitable with a demand on resources both human and natural.

It stands to reason that any man at the helm during a period like this is very likely to be corrupt or corruptible when you look at the vast amounts of money that can be creamed out of the country without anybody noticing.

In Thaksin's case the main are for concern was the exponentially developing telecommunications market. National PTTs are in amongst the largest banks, largest software companies and largest fuel companies when it comes to revenue. Many countries still keep the "Family Silver" in the hands of the government. In the US one company got so large that the Federal Bureau of Commerce ordered it to be broken down into many small pieces. In Britain the government sold off the company but took great care to ensure that the company fell into the hands of the investors rather than some fat cat or family of fat cats. In Thailand the PM was allowed to own the company that essentially provided (and still does provide) the infrastructure for all telecommunications.

Neither of the steps used by the US and the UK were taken in Thailand and I think that Sunday's referendum has been ordered to put in place a scenario where this can never happen again.

In summary. Was Thaksin good or bad. There is no black or white answer. He managed to get himself in the right position at the right time and reaped the benefits.

He is a dishonest liar, but then that does not separate from other world leaders. He allowed the lion's share of the product of development fall into the hands of the people. As far as I know he has not been in breach of the human rights accord and there have been some small improvements in the public health service. Other than that though in my opinion he has done nothing positive at all for the country.

This country has not born the shackles of communism, totalitarianism, oppressive religion, imperialism or international conflict and should have done much better. It has the ingredients to be the most wealthy and powerful country in the region but has been hampered by the single minded greed of the foreigner Thaksin and his family of scroungers.

The best thing in, my opinion now is to forget about him and look to the future and lets us hope that his influence is kept minimal.

[buksida]

I agree with most of what has been posted above so wont repeat it, however a vital point has been missed.

Thaksin and his family sale of Shincorp to "foreigners" (Singapore) is directly responsible for all of the subsequent clampdowns on foreign shareholdings of companies here, legal rights to property, and foreigners civil rights in general.

The current government have become super paranoid as a direct result of that mans actions. Foreigners were never held in good esteem anyway, now we are the "axis of evil", to be avoided at all costs so the benevolent Thai people can get on with their "sufficiency economy" while the fat cats get fatter.

He has simply amplified the already underlying strata of xenophobia in this country, made himself a fortune and pissed off to another country to spend it.

[Guess]

Thaksin and his family sale of Shincorp to "foreigners" (Singapore) is directly responsible for all of the subsequent clampdowns on foreign shareholdings of companies here, legal rights to property, and foreigners civil rights in general.

I have no doubt this is true but must add that other undersirables particularly in the narcotics and illegal land investment markets had some impact. The difference her though is that the pressure for action and the intelligence information was passed to Thailand by other foreign governments, namely the UK, Australia and the US.

It must be an almost impossible task for the Thais do figure out who, if any, foreigners can be trusted.

[tigger]

I have only been in Thailand a short time and I read the above posts with much interest. Many pro's and con's. My own view is not a Thai view but more a democratic observation. Like him or not, Thaksin was elected by the people. Did the people remove him from office???????

[Norseman]

Did the people remove him from office???????

Maybe you didn't see all the protest demonstrations by the thousands of people in Bangkok.
It wasn't only the military who wanted Toxin out of office, but ordinary people as well, particularly people from the big cities.
TRT did pay people in rural areas to get their votes, but nobody dare to step forward and tell about it.
If they do their most probably history next day.

[lomuamart]

It's a difficult one, isn't it?
On the one hand Thaksin was voted to power twice - the first time was the first occasion any Thai PM had served a term of office. 4 years.
He was a great orator and got votes as a result. He did some good for this country and he did ill.
However, the vast majority of Thais didn't benefit - long term. Now the teeth are out and the referendum on Sunday may just show some inkling of the underlying Thai feeling.
I just hope the right decision is reached. An important day the 19th is!!!

[tigger]

Sorry Norseman, My question was a genuine one. I wasnt here at the time and didnt see the reports on the news. I was just asking from a democratic point of view. I have not been here long enough to be affected by either of the powers and I do not know enough about Thai Politics to pass judgement. Whatever happens I only hope that Thailand is projected forward as a Kingdom and not left behind in the wake of other rising Asian Countries.

[lomuamart]

I tell you one thing - never try to discuss politics with your partner.
There I was, a good meal at home watching the latest from Kabul and Islamabad on the BBC and I dared to talk about Thaksin et al.
I'm lucky not to have a meat cleaver in my head.
The thing is that I'm in agreement with my wife and I'm sure she is with me.
Let them get on with their democratic ideals on Sunday and I'll take it from there.
If I last that long
BtW - my wife was asking where the voting slips go. Seems like she dosn't trust the system here. I'm just keeping quiet.