Recent deaths and injuries of college and vocational school students in hazing rituals once again caused media frenzy. Columnists and television commentators expressed outrage over the "barbaric" actions of senior students responsible for the tragic incidents.
"Any college or university where initiation into academic life is associated with fear and harassment perpetrated by members of the student body can hardly be described as a civilised place to study," said one commentator, after a hazing ritual in Prachuap Khiri Khan province left a freshman of a Bangkok-based vocational school in a coma on Sept 15.
We have heard such condemnation so many times during the past 40 years or so. Parents, teachers and many of the students themselves have urged school and college administrators to impose tighter controls on freshman orientation. The "welcoming ceremony," they say, must be designed to welcome new students and unify the student body, not to create fear and humiliation.
Some faculty members argue that attendance is not mandatory and, in most cases, freshmen are not forced to undergo the orientation sessions. But, by the same token, students who refuse to attend these sessions are often ostracised and blacklisted by their peers. In some cases, non-cooperative freshmen - particularly in all-male vocational schools - are physically assaulted.
Last year, a vocational college student drowned after being forced to take alcohol and swim in the sea during a hazing ritual. A few years earlier, a freshman lost his life when his seniors played a foolish trick: they tied his hands and legs and threw him into a pond.
In most universities, the ritual is always the same. The newcomers are arranged in lines which are patrolled by senior students. They are harangued and forced to say silly things - over and over - as they stand at attention, sometimes in the hot sun, for hours. Freshmen are told to attend daily "cheer" activities that may go on until late at night.
These activities may go on for a month under the guise of a welcoming ceremony. But is this really a welcome tradition that our educational institutions should uphold?
Due to strong criticisms from parents, the media and the public, many universities have instructed senior students to mend their ways. At Kasetsart University in Bangkok, which was once notorious for its harsh initiation rites, freshmen now see a lot more fun activities.
At a vocational school in Nakhon Ratchasima province, parents who observed the ceremony there in June were impressed by the activities designed to not only welcome new students, but also help the community. Forums were organised for the students to talk about such issues as environmental problems and Aids prevention. At the end of the day, the freshmen, their seniors and faculty members had a little get-together featuring fun and games.
The Sept 15 incident in Prachuap Khiri Khan should be a lesson for school administrators that they must impose tighter controls on freshmen orientations. Four students have already been charged with assault and battery resulting in the serious injuries of the 17-year-old freshman, who is still in a coma. According to newspaper reports, the freshman was forced to roll over a sandy pit filled with burning firewood. It is still not clear what caused the serious injury to his head.
"I am really sorry for what my son did to the young student," the mother of one of the four students told Crime Suppression Division police, who are in charge of the case. "He went through the same hazing ritual when he was a freshman."
It's high time that the Education Ministry did something to prevent a recurrence of this sad incident. Young people should be instilled with values that are based on love, compassion and understanding. There are many ways to organise an orientation ceremony, but the ultimate aim should be to foster friendly relations and a sense of unity among both the newcomers and their upperclassmen. This can be done without the harassment and intimidation that still seem to be the norm at some educational institutions.
[BKK Post]
Nb it would be interesting to hear from students from the two local universities in town on their experiences of these type of events,
I have witnessed these humiliating and degrading activities at had sai noi a few months ago, The US of A seems to be responsible for many copy cat activities such as this,
So much for the civilised west!
Put an end to hazing
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dr dave soul monsta
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Put an end to hazing
"I don't often agree with the RSPCA as i believe it is an animals duty to be on my plate at supper time"
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huahinsimon
- Professional
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hazing
Hey Good DR.
"I have witnessed these humiliating and degrading activities at had sai noi a few months ago, The US of A seems to be responsible for many copy cat activities such as this, "
gimiabreak,
I know we Americans are responsible for most of the evil in this world, but adding hazing to our rapsheet is pilling on, dontya think?
I prescribe a little history for the Dr.
Hazing as we know it has its roots in Europe, for it is certainly not an American invention. To understand what happened in this strange story, one must keep in mind three words -- penalism (Europe), fagging (G.B.), and hazing (U.S.). While related, these are also different in some very important ways.
Penalism, on the European continent, goes back to the Middle Ages; we have detailed descriptions of it from the early 1400's. "The underlying idea ... was that the newcomer to the university was an untutored, uncivilized man, who had first to be polished before he could become a regular member of the university; before he could taste the sweets of a student's life he should suffer hardships." says one authority. To make the "freshman" aware of his proper mode of behavior, he was subjected to weird dress, physical abuse, coarse jokes and extortion of money or dinners for the hazers. He was called by the French a "yellow beak" or bec jaune, a name later contracted to the Latinized word "beanus" -- apparently the origin of our U.S. term "beanie" (the green freshman cap once worn), and about the only clearcut American borrowing from Continental practices.
In the 1600's this ceremony was accepted as an official act by a number of European universities, which even required that to receive a masters degree the student must produce an official statement that he had successfully completed it. Yet penalism was dangerous, with many serious injuries and some deaths recorded. Parents were much afraid of this barbarous custom. As the medieval period ended, and the modern industrial era began, penalism was abolished in the 1700's.
Fagging was strictly an English practice which began to take clear shape about the 1770's in the English aristocratic prep schools, and to a lesser degree in Oxford and Cambridge. Also a form of "shaping up the freshmen," fagging differed from penalism in its emphasis upon personal menial service, and drudgery. Each upper-classman selected a "fag" from among the new boys, made him run errands and clean up his "digs" or quarters, and administered physical punishment along with verbal abuse to the miserable fag. Justified as a means of teaching humility and proper behavior, fagging led to bullying, permanent injury, deaths, and suicides, also.
We be innocent.
"I have witnessed these humiliating and degrading activities at had sai noi a few months ago, The US of A seems to be responsible for many copy cat activities such as this, "
gimiabreak,
I know we Americans are responsible for most of the evil in this world, but adding hazing to our rapsheet is pilling on, dontya think?
I prescribe a little history for the Dr.
Hazing as we know it has its roots in Europe, for it is certainly not an American invention. To understand what happened in this strange story, one must keep in mind three words -- penalism (Europe), fagging (G.B.), and hazing (U.S.). While related, these are also different in some very important ways.
Penalism, on the European continent, goes back to the Middle Ages; we have detailed descriptions of it from the early 1400's. "The underlying idea ... was that the newcomer to the university was an untutored, uncivilized man, who had first to be polished before he could become a regular member of the university; before he could taste the sweets of a student's life he should suffer hardships." says one authority. To make the "freshman" aware of his proper mode of behavior, he was subjected to weird dress, physical abuse, coarse jokes and extortion of money or dinners for the hazers. He was called by the French a "yellow beak" or bec jaune, a name later contracted to the Latinized word "beanus" -- apparently the origin of our U.S. term "beanie" (the green freshman cap once worn), and about the only clearcut American borrowing from Continental practices.
In the 1600's this ceremony was accepted as an official act by a number of European universities, which even required that to receive a masters degree the student must produce an official statement that he had successfully completed it. Yet penalism was dangerous, with many serious injuries and some deaths recorded. Parents were much afraid of this barbarous custom. As the medieval period ended, and the modern industrial era began, penalism was abolished in the 1700's.
Fagging was strictly an English practice which began to take clear shape about the 1770's in the English aristocratic prep schools, and to a lesser degree in Oxford and Cambridge. Also a form of "shaping up the freshmen," fagging differed from penalism in its emphasis upon personal menial service, and drudgery. Each upper-classman selected a "fag" from among the new boys, made him run errands and clean up his "digs" or quarters, and administered physical punishment along with verbal abuse to the miserable fag. Justified as a means of teaching humility and proper behavior, fagging led to bullying, permanent injury, deaths, and suicides, also.
We be innocent.
The devil made me do it the first time.
The second time I did it on my own.
When I finally got to the land of milk and honey, the milkman shot me
Happy wife, Happy life!
The second time I did it on my own.
When I finally got to the land of milk and honey, the milkman shot me
Happy wife, Happy life!
-
redzonerocker
- Rock Star
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- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:55 pm
- Location: England
hazing
yep hh simon,
i'm quite sure those thai students got their ideas from the thousands of penalism & fagging clips you find so often on 'youtube' these days.
the original source may have come from europe, most things american did!
the only initiations i can remember at school was ducking (sometimes down the toilet pan ) but again that finished in the mid 70's.
maybe it was more prevalent in private schools & uni's.
the actual word, hazing, has little or no meaning in proper english, so its just another made up word from the americans dictionary.
so you aint getting off that easily & you don't be innocent
i'm quite sure those thai students got their ideas from the thousands of penalism & fagging clips you find so often on 'youtube' these days.
the original source may have come from europe, most things american did!
the only initiations i can remember at school was ducking (sometimes down the toilet pan
) but again that finished in the mid 70's.maybe it was more prevalent in private schools & uni's.
the actual word, hazing, has little or no meaning in proper english, so its just another made up word from the americans dictionary.
so you aint getting off that easily & you don't be innocent
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
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huahinsimon
- Professional
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:43 am
hazing
Aint gettin off that easy eh, RZR
It's all us bloody Yanks and our damned youtube
maybe the Thais like and copy English hazing just like they like English football.
HHS
Royal Marines: FORCED into a barbaric naked fight with other recruit
see the video here. Please be warned - it is not pretty. Very disturbing...
http://www.gayrightswatch.com/2005/11/r ... baric.html
A young Royal Marine is FORCED into a barbaric naked fight with another recruit and then KICKED unconscious by a superior in a brutal booze-fuelled initiation ceremony.
And the shocking ritual-covertly filmed by a commando-is alleged to be one of many imposed on recruits.
Now the film is being investigated by Ministry of Defence top brass who have confirmed it is genuine.
Our source claims the culprit holds senior rank. The Marines would not confirm his position but an MoD source said: "He's not an officer but he is an NCO."
They identified the 42 Commando marine-dressed in a blue surgeon's outfit-who carried out the attack and he is being disciplined.
But our whistleblower reveals the beating that could have KILLED the young recruit in this video is one of many chilling secret initiation ordeals he has witnessed as a marine.
A veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said: "This is the worst thing I've seen happen-that's why I filmed it-but it's the tip of an iceberg.
Electrodes
"The guy laid out was inches away from being dead. Stuff like this goes on all the time-but when drink becomes involved it gets worse."
The whistleblower went on to reveal how marine recruits were:
TORTURED with shocks through electrodes attached to their genitals. FORCED to crawl naked through thorn bushes. ORDERED to jump out of bedroom windows, even though some broke their legs, and URGED to fight each other with one hand tied behind their backs.
"The top boys in the Royal Marines know this all goes on but they turn a blind eye to it," said our marine.
The violent initiation ceremony he filmed took place in May at Bickleigh Barracks, near Plymouth, home to the elite 42 Commando.
"They call them Joining Runs-or Sprog Olympics-because sprog is slang for baby and these were new recruits," said the marine.
"12 of them were taken to a barbecue on the top field with about 40 other marines watching.
[...]
"Then the fighting started. The bloke disappeared and came back with the surgeon's outfit, mask and cap on and things really turned nasty when he ordered them to start laying into each other. You can see it on their faces in the film that they're scared."
Naked fellow marines surrounding them can be heard baying for blood as the man in the surgeon's outfit and another in a St Trinian's uniform, complete with wig and short skirt, supervise the cruel contest.
First the hapless pair have rubber mats strapped to their arms and start slugging away.
Then they are told to remove their mats and square up with bare fists before being ordered on to their knees to wrestle.
Broken
"He could have killed the guy. If that kick caught him on the temple, that would have been it. Lights out for good.
The guy on the floor was unconscious for a couple of minutes-and was sick when he came round. He had to be helped away. His boss just stood there with a can of wifebeater (the marines' name for Stella Artois lager) while the guy was out cold, goading the others to have a go at him if they dared. But we knew we couldn't."
"I've seen new recruits have electronic pads from massage machines attached to their testicles and heads," he said.
After seeing the video, a Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "The Royal Marines take these allegations extremely seriously. The Service Police have launched an investigation."
"In a battle of wits, you are unarmed." ~ G Gordon Liddy
It's all us bloody Yanks and our damned youtube
maybe the Thais like and copy English hazing just like they like English football.
HHS
Royal Marines: FORCED into a barbaric naked fight with other recruit
see the video here. Please be warned - it is not pretty. Very disturbing...
http://www.gayrightswatch.com/2005/11/r ... baric.html
A young Royal Marine is FORCED into a barbaric naked fight with another recruit and then KICKED unconscious by a superior in a brutal booze-fuelled initiation ceremony.
And the shocking ritual-covertly filmed by a commando-is alleged to be one of many imposed on recruits.
Now the film is being investigated by Ministry of Defence top brass who have confirmed it is genuine.
Our source claims the culprit holds senior rank. The Marines would not confirm his position but an MoD source said: "He's not an officer but he is an NCO."
They identified the 42 Commando marine-dressed in a blue surgeon's outfit-who carried out the attack and he is being disciplined.
But our whistleblower reveals the beating that could have KILLED the young recruit in this video is one of many chilling secret initiation ordeals he has witnessed as a marine.
A veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq, he said: "This is the worst thing I've seen happen-that's why I filmed it-but it's the tip of an iceberg.
Electrodes
"The guy laid out was inches away from being dead. Stuff like this goes on all the time-but when drink becomes involved it gets worse."
The whistleblower went on to reveal how marine recruits were:
TORTURED with shocks through electrodes attached to their genitals. FORCED to crawl naked through thorn bushes. ORDERED to jump out of bedroom windows, even though some broke their legs, and URGED to fight each other with one hand tied behind their backs.
"The top boys in the Royal Marines know this all goes on but they turn a blind eye to it," said our marine.
The violent initiation ceremony he filmed took place in May at Bickleigh Barracks, near Plymouth, home to the elite 42 Commando.
"They call them Joining Runs-or Sprog Olympics-because sprog is slang for baby and these were new recruits," said the marine.
"12 of them were taken to a barbecue on the top field with about 40 other marines watching.
[...]
"Then the fighting started. The bloke disappeared and came back with the surgeon's outfit, mask and cap on and things really turned nasty when he ordered them to start laying into each other. You can see it on their faces in the film that they're scared."
Naked fellow marines surrounding them can be heard baying for blood as the man in the surgeon's outfit and another in a St Trinian's uniform, complete with wig and short skirt, supervise the cruel contest.
First the hapless pair have rubber mats strapped to their arms and start slugging away.
Then they are told to remove their mats and square up with bare fists before being ordered on to their knees to wrestle.
Broken
"He could have killed the guy. If that kick caught him on the temple, that would have been it. Lights out for good.
The guy on the floor was unconscious for a couple of minutes-and was sick when he came round. He had to be helped away. His boss just stood there with a can of wifebeater (the marines' name for Stella Artois lager) while the guy was out cold, goading the others to have a go at him if they dared. But we knew we couldn't."
"I've seen new recruits have electronic pads from massage machines attached to their testicles and heads," he said.
After seeing the video, a Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "The Royal Marines take these allegations extremely seriously. The Service Police have launched an investigation."
"In a battle of wits, you are unarmed." ~ G Gordon Liddy
The devil made me do it the first time.
The second time I did it on my own.
When I finally got to the land of milk and honey, the milkman shot me
Happy wife, Happy life!
The second time I did it on my own.
When I finally got to the land of milk and honey, the milkman shot me
Happy wife, Happy life!
-
huahinsimon
- Professional
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:43 am
we don't be innocent
RZR,
from news story on the unpleasantness in Burma
Burmese monks have taken part in protests in the past, against British colonial rule and against a half-century of rule by military dictatorship. The most notable recent occasion was in 1990.
Their militant resistance to the British produced the most prominent political martyr of Burmese Buddhism, U Wisara, who died in prison in 1929 after a 166-day hunger strike.
Lest you forget who was the scourage of the world for about two centuries.
you dont be so innocent yerselfs
HHS
from news story on the unpleasantness in Burma
Burmese monks have taken part in protests in the past, against British colonial rule and against a half-century of rule by military dictatorship. The most notable recent occasion was in 1990.
Their militant resistance to the British produced the most prominent political martyr of Burmese Buddhism, U Wisara, who died in prison in 1929 after a 166-day hunger strike.
Lest you forget who was the scourage of the world for about two centuries.
you dont be so innocent yerselfs
HHS
The devil made me do it the first time.
The second time I did it on my own.
When I finally got to the land of milk and honey, the milkman shot me
Happy wife, Happy life!
The second time I did it on my own.
When I finally got to the land of milk and honey, the milkman shot me
Happy wife, Happy life!
-
redzonerocker
- Rock Star
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:55 pm
- Location: England
hazing
points taken 
but your observations about royal marines & the british colonialists have little relevance to the subject of hazing amongst school kids & students.
it would be quite easy to slander most any country for acts of maltreatment & atrocities throughout history.
the original topic is hazing & its not a common practice in uk school environments & hasn't been for decades.
bullying may still be an issue, but then thats an age old problem.
just for the record, i don't believe our history is innocent at all. in fact far from it
but your observations about royal marines & the british colonialists have little relevance to the subject of hazing amongst school kids & students.
it would be quite easy to slander most any country for acts of maltreatment & atrocities throughout history.
the original topic is hazing & its not a common practice in uk school environments & hasn't been for decades.
bullying may still be an issue, but then thats an age old problem.just for the record, i don't believe our history is innocent at all. in fact far from it
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
-
huahinsimon
- Professional
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:43 am
hazing
RZR wrote: the original topic is hazing & its not a common practice in uk school environments & hasn't been for decades.
I find this hard to believe rocker but googling around didn't load my gun except for what follows below which is one man's observation with no documentation. That being said, and I could find a lot on hazing incidents in American schools, I will capitulate and say it does appear that we yanks can be correctly blamed for this. apologies to Dr DSM and your self.
HHS
The below is from a online discussion on hazing sponsored by The Nation newspaper
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/board/t ... 9&offset=0
So how did this culture evolve? Earlier in the last century the first wave of Thai students who came from Thailand's elite went to study in England and America joining in the foreign hazing ceremonies.
Thais returning back to their homeland brought this ugly culture back to Thailand with them and introduced it for 3 main reasons, firstly because humans that are humiliated are much easier to control, secondly because they got pleasure out of humiliating others and finally because they thought if it is Farang then it must be good!!!
Popular farang hazing activities include:
1)The Elephant Walk: Naked men walk in a line holding the "tail" behind them
2-6 deleted in the interests of decency and brevity
but I gotta include #7 because I never heard of it and wonder if any of you Brits have. Who thinks up these things?
7) Soggy biscuit: This is a Great British tradition which starts in the boarding schools and is very popular at Eton, the British school that inspired the creation of Thailand's famous Wachirawudh school. In this ceremony groups of boys stand around a table with a cookie in the center of the table, all the boys must masturbate and bring themselves to climax as quickly as possible spilling their seeds onto the cookie. The last person to climax must eat the soggy biscuit. This tradition still continues today in British schools universities and in the military. Now you know why these institutions are also known as "faggot factories"!!
When I meet High So Thai men that studied at a Boys school in England and I say the word "soggy biscuit" and see their faces turn pale I know that they lost without them even telling me. The moral of this story is that when importing foreign culture one should be very selective and only take what is good and leave what is sick!!
I find this hard to believe rocker but googling around didn't load my gun except for what follows below which is one man's observation with no documentation. That being said, and I could find a lot on hazing incidents in American schools, I will capitulate and say it does appear that we yanks can be correctly blamed for this. apologies to Dr DSM and your self.
HHS
The below is from a online discussion on hazing sponsored by The Nation newspaper
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/board/t ... 9&offset=0
So how did this culture evolve? Earlier in the last century the first wave of Thai students who came from Thailand's elite went to study in England and America joining in the foreign hazing ceremonies.
Thais returning back to their homeland brought this ugly culture back to Thailand with them and introduced it for 3 main reasons, firstly because humans that are humiliated are much easier to control, secondly because they got pleasure out of humiliating others and finally because they thought if it is Farang then it must be good!!!
Popular farang hazing activities include:
1)The Elephant Walk: Naked men walk in a line holding the "tail" behind them
2-6 deleted in the interests of decency and brevity
but I gotta include #7 because I never heard of it and wonder if any of you Brits have. Who thinks up these things?
7) Soggy biscuit: This is a Great British tradition which starts in the boarding schools and is very popular at Eton, the British school that inspired the creation of Thailand's famous Wachirawudh school. In this ceremony groups of boys stand around a table with a cookie in the center of the table, all the boys must masturbate and bring themselves to climax as quickly as possible spilling their seeds onto the cookie. The last person to climax must eat the soggy biscuit. This tradition still continues today in British schools universities and in the military. Now you know why these institutions are also known as "faggot factories"!!
When I meet High So Thai men that studied at a Boys school in England and I say the word "soggy biscuit" and see their faces turn pale I know that they lost without them even telling me. The moral of this story is that when importing foreign culture one should be very selective and only take what is good and leave what is sick!!
The devil made me do it the first time.
The second time I did it on my own.
When I finally got to the land of milk and honey, the milkman shot me
Happy wife, Happy life!
The second time I did it on my own.
When I finally got to the land of milk and honey, the milkman shot me
Happy wife, Happy life!
-
redzonerocker
- Rock Star
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:55 pm
- Location: England
hazing
can't say i've heard of 'the soggy biscuit' ritual it wouldn't surprise me within private institutions, but couldn't quite see it happening in your average inner city comprehensive school
.the thought of it makes me queasy
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
-
Vital Spark
- Legend
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:34 pm
- Location: Arcos de la Frontera, Spain
Sorry Simon, but the 'soggy biscuit' thing is a figment of someone's imagination.
Parahandy went to Eton - they didn't do it there. And never have done. They did 'fagging' (which has nothing to do with faggots) which involved being a kind of helper/servant to an older student. Polishing his shoes, getting him tea, tidying his room, etc.
We have 'Freshy Month' at the government university where I work. It drives me, and a lot of the students crazy. They have to get up ridiculously early in the morning and stand in rows, or march around the campus whilst being yelled at by 2nd year students. They also have to chant songs and hold notes for as long as they can - to prove what? I know that some of the students here hate it - but peer pressure forces them to join in. Both Parahandy and I have tried, and will keep on trying, to get it banned. We haven't succeeded thus far. We're told that it's 'Thai culture' - no it's not. It's boot-camp culture. What we're trying to do now is to convince the 1st year students not to do it next year. But bless their cottons, by next year they will have fogotten and just follow the same path. We just live in hope that one day....
VS
Parahandy went to Eton - they didn't do it there. And never have done. They did 'fagging' (which has nothing to do with faggots) which involved being a kind of helper/servant to an older student. Polishing his shoes, getting him tea, tidying his room, etc.
We have 'Freshy Month' at the government university where I work. It drives me, and a lot of the students crazy. They have to get up ridiculously early in the morning and stand in rows, or march around the campus whilst being yelled at by 2nd year students. They also have to chant songs and hold notes for as long as they can - to prove what? I know that some of the students here hate it - but peer pressure forces them to join in. Both Parahandy and I have tried, and will keep on trying, to get it banned. We haven't succeeded thus far. We're told that it's 'Thai culture' - no it's not. It's boot-camp culture. What we're trying to do now is to convince the 1st year students not to do it next year. But bless their cottons, by next year they will have fogotten and just follow the same path. We just live in hope that one day....
VS
"Properly trained, man can be a dog's best friend"
