What has Hua Hin come to?

[huahinjim]

Wherever you go in the world there are always moans about how much things have changed or how much worse things are than NN years ago.

I have been here for less than 2 years so I cannot comment on how things were prior to that.

Yes, things have changed even in the short time I have been here. But let's remember - if you & I are here then you & I are part of the problem! Got a property here? Well, we've contributed to the change. Drive a car or hire a taxi/ tuk-tuk here? Go shopping? Stay at the hotels? Drink water? Things have changed as a result. Let's not forget there are some good changes too - better shops, better restaurants etc etc. Look how many shops, bars etc are being improved.

And if you're missing the dragonflies then I suggest a short trip south and get yourself to Pak Nam Pran beach because there are millions of the things everywhere. Beautiful. Kingfishers? Monitor lizards? Herons? Take a trip on the River Pranburi and see how many there are still around.

For so many people it's a case of 'I've moved here and now let's keep things as they are ie don't let anybody else change anything that might spoil what I have'!! And yes there are times I've thought exactly that as I walk along deserted beaches.

Nothing will stop progress. Let's enjoy what we have. Because in 1 year or 5 years this is what you'll be moaning about that has changed so much for the worse.

[johnnyk]

Well said.
Up the drawbridge, I'm in! seems to be a popular sentiment.

[Procyon]

Again, most people have misread my original post and come out with the usual "stop moaning" chants one finds on these forums.

The post is about falangs doing business, it is not about growth, development, fishing villages, and how much bigger the place is now.

When the Thai government constantly do their best to make life hard for falangs doing business why cant they stick together and why do they have to screw each other over?

A few questions to people in business here ...

How many of know of another falang that has been grassed up to immigration?

How many of you know of someone who has had their business ripped off in its entirety by a competitor with no original thoughts of their own?

How many of you know of at least one person who has been shafted on a property deal by a falang realtor?

How many know of someone who has come to physical harm over a business deal involving another falang?

How many have lost customers to another falang who has lied and cheated to get them?

These are just a few and as someone said earlier its "disappointing" that falangs do this to each other when they should be banding together as most minorities do in other countries.

[JD]

JD a nice post, you wont mind then if I take umbrage at your ‘you abide by the letter of the law’ comment. To me the law is simple. Section 4 land act Thailand - no falangs can own land. That just leaves the vast sprawl of ever increasing bungalows, way outside the price range of most thais. As I said, those in business see it as progress, I don’t. They look at it as gain, I see the loss. As for 9 years ago, you have no idea what it was like now do you. I do. I WAS here, and I don’t know you from Adam. 9 years ago you could have got all of us living here, in one bar, for a pissup. Now you would need Wembly. It is perceptions, mine started long before you got here, I have been coming to Thailand with a Thai wife, free flights, for 24 years.

- Grammar added for ease of understanding.


You seem to be mistaking this thread as a discussion on property and housing, which as you know, has been debated to death already.

As for whether or not I knew what it was like 9 years ago, you already stated (wrongly) that you do not know me from Adam, so how can you say I don’t know. I’ve been coming to Thailand since the mid 80’s. I’ve seen many changes in that time. I’ve still yet to visit Pattaya, never been, never want to, it’s reputation preceded it, and is not the Thailand I wished to visit. Oh yes, Wembly Stadium would look rather empty with the full compliment of approx. 3,000 expats that reside in and around the Hua Hin area.

Sarge, you have a point of view, as everybody does, please try to get over the fact that your’s is the only valid one, and back that up by saying you have hid yourself away for the last nine years in Hua Hin, and are not happy with the fact that others have found the place and decided to settle here.

Some of us have not retired, some of us have to find work and jump through all the hoops, some of us start companies - not I might add, to try and make a huge profit, believe me, that is not going to happen, when you take into account the constant investment needed for a growing and successful company.

Now, back on topic.

Hua Hin is expanding, I think you will always find the odd (farang and Thai) business person who is happy to play against the rules. I’ve had experience of these characters in my time here. They are easily dealt with, and most of the time end up digging their own holes to fall into.

You would think that as we (farangs) are the minority, who have to play by the rules and regulations set for us, that we would stick together. No such chance, there will always be petty jealousy and bickering, and on occasion, downright threats and violence. Those of us that do follow the rules and stick together, help each other out when problems occur, rightly so. We all know many people who live and work here, who don’t follow the rules, or hide behind a Thai nationals name, or who do not even pay any taxes from their earnings in Thailand. I am sure the time will come when these things will come to an end, and these people will either have to get legal or be thrown out. It is not up to me to complain to the authorities about such people, I’d probably end up in a ditch somewhere if I did. But these characters are happy to do this to each other whenever the chance arises, so leave them to it.

I would add though, that if you follow the rules and regulations, if you pay all your dues for Tax, VAT, Salary, Signage, Insurance, and all manner of 100 other things, it does grate a little when you here about ‘Joe Conman’ or ‘Joe Bully’, ‘doing a bit of business’, and contacting your customers with attractive prices for cheaper products and misleading information about you and your company. If he was ever able to become a legitimate company in Thailand and had the same overheads as the rest of us, he would be sure to fall flat on his face in no short time.

[Surf FM]

Reminiscing with a friend the other day about running home from school throwing of the school clothes grabbing rod and reel and pushbike to the Thames in oxford and sitting for hours by the river fishing but many times just taking pleasure in the otters ,kingfishers ,dragonflies and butterflies .
There aren’t any otters or kingfishers, dragonflies or butterflies any more on the Thames progress has got rid of them just about

That’s what has happened to Hua Hin in 4/5 years all that’s left are mosquitoes (bloodsuckers ) and cockroaches how that is progress is beyond me but it will be the word used to slime people who know progress really means profit and greed
To those who were here 9 years ago maybe only 6 this lovely fishing village has been ruined. To those coming tomorrow it is paradise because they will never have seen the otters, kingfishers, dragonflies and butterflies and probably unfortunately don’t have the imagination to understand what has been lost or what I am saying
I am very fortunate for I have seen the otters and kingfishers dragonflies and butterflies that is my only profit from Hua Hin and I am not greedy I just wish my son and his son could have seen them and everybody else’s kids too it is them that have been robbed by the greedy

Finally procyon I agree wholeheartedly with your observations. here is one for you almost all of the posters saying how great it is are either in business, making business or trying to get into business and most have only been here 4/5 years and trust me 6/7/8/9/10 years ago there were no incidents at all that we now are FORCED to accept as progress odd aint it
Now watch the crap come down on this post

Did you have a bet with someone as to how many times you could get the phrase "otters, kingfishers, dragonflies and butterflies" into one post sarge?

[JD]

Again, most people have misread my original post and come out with the usual "stop moaning" chants one finds on these forums.

The post is about falangs doing business, it is not about growth, development, fishing villages, and how much bigger the place is now.

When the Thai government constantly do their best to make life hard for falangs doing business why cant they stick together and why do they have to screw each other over?

A few questions to people in business here ...

How many of know of another falang that has been grassed up to immigration?

How many of you know of someone who has had their business ripped off in its entirety by a competitor with no original thoughts of their own?

How many of you know of at least one person who has been shafted on a property deal by a falang realtor?

How many know of someone who has come to physical harm over a business deal involving another falang?

How many have lost customers to another falang who has lied and cheated to get them?

These are just a few and as someone said earlier its "disappointing" that falangs do this to each other when they should be banding together as most minorities do in other countries.

Procyon,

This is a very interesting and serious thread you have started.

I don't know how many will answer the above questions, probably not many, but I could give the affirmative to most of them.

How to change the attitudes of some to make this a more business friendly town, I don't know. Someone said earlier, just keep your head down and get on with what you do. If you do complain about anyone, they'll likely just lie about the problem and continue the vendetta for years to come.

I like to think you get to know who the good ones are, even if you do no business with them, you stick together and help each other out when you can.

Good luck to you if you're in business, care to share your reason for starting this thread?

[sargeant]

My sincere apologies procyon had you put the word business in the thread title i would have still agreed with your observations but left out the wildlife

[STEVE G]

I sometimes wander if perhaps the decline in business ethics recently amongst the ex-pat community is linked to a declining amount of business. Perhaps people are stooping to underhand methods because money is not as easy to come by as it was. This is just a thought, I don’t have any business interests in Thailand so I'm not speaking from any first hand knowledge.

[shaneofski]

I first settled in Hua Hin about 7 years ago, and lived there for just over 3 years. I often go back to visit, but the main reason I visit Hua Hin now is that my girlfriend lives there.

Hua Hin was a very different only back in 2000. There was no Hilton nightclub, just places like Pa-ra-dai and Blue Star.

You could definitely fit most of the farang ex-pats into one bar for a piss-up, All Nations on Dechanuchit used to be the place to go.

Celtic Bar was rocking.

A lot of the original characters are still around, but many are now well established business men.

I personally preferred Hua Hin before it boomed. Before all the big fast food chains arrived and before the place filled up with white retirees and started looking like Benidorm.

I remember walking up to Khao Hin Lek Fai and looking down on the city from the view points. Most of the area surrounding the city was bush, now it's all gated communities and housing estates full of farangs.

Most Thais can't afford to buy a property anywhere near the beach or near the centre of town. Sad, really.

Thailand's problem has been termed by some "Death by Success", and I think the same is happening to Hua Hin.

I don't begrudge people the money they've made out of Hua Hin's success, the place has gathered its own momentum.

Having said all the above, I'd still consider living there as the area is nice, I have friends there and it is conveniently located within a few hours of Bangkok.

[DawnHRD]

I first settled in Hua Hin about 7 years ago, and lived there for just over 3 years. I often go back to visit, but the main reason I visit Hua Hin now is that my girlfriend lives there.

Hua Hin was a very different only back in 2000. There was no Hilton nightclub, just places like Pa-ra-dai and Blue Star.

You could definitely fit most of the farang ex-pats into one bar for a piss-up, All Nations on Dechanuchit used to be the place to go.

Celtic Bar was rocking.

All I can say is that Hua Hin must have changed one helluva lot in one year, as I came here to live in 2001 and would take exception with some of your recollections (ie the number of expats around at that time)

Most Thais can't afford to buy a property anywhere near the beach or near the centre of town. Sad, really.

Neither can most farang. In fact much of that land is taken up by resorts & businesses.



As for the thread subject matter:
Yes, there are bad apples in Hua Hin (as anywhere else). Yes, there are people who would screw you over for no other reason than it suited them. There are also some truly nice & good people here. The trick is, as JD said, to be able to identify which is which & associate only with the good ones.

[shaneofski]

I came here to live in 2001 and would take exception with some of your recollections (ie the number of expats around at that time)

So you actually disagree with exactly 1 of my recollections. OK, well I suppose I was thinking more about the circle of regular ex-pat drinkers around town at that time. One thing is for certain, there were far fewer.

Most Thais can't afford to buy a property anywhere near the beach or near the centre of town. Sad, really.

Neither can most farang. In fact much of that land is taken up by resorts & businesses.

OK, I'll qualify my statement, and suggest that most land within 6km of the centre of town is out of reach of the vast majority of Thais. I know lots of Thai people who would love to live in Hua Hin but can't afford to.

The place has changed, for the worse in my humble opinion. No one person or group of people is responsible as far as I can make out, but the place has gone down the tubes.

When the boom first really started, I used to go down to Khao Tao to escape. I thought the development blight would never make it down there. Now they've destroyed Baan Khao Tao with Condos and houses for wealthy foreigners only.

[DawnHRD]

^ No, actually I would disagree about where all the expats went to drink etc, as well. Bintabaht was doing a relatively good trade at the time (and, as far as I remember didn't only consist of the Celtic Bar). Also Bernie's & that area was quite well populated.

I just couldn't be bothered stating all of my disagreements with your (rather rose-colured, IMO) statement. But, seeing as you insisted...

BTW, I live far less than 6km out of town. I rent my house from a Thai landlord (he's not rich, he's a sergeant in the Army). The whole area is very Thai & getting more & more built up with new apartments & shophouses. All occupied by Thais. In my area, I am one of precisely 3 farang. Everyone else is Thai.

[shaneofski]

^ No, actually I would disagree about where all the expats went to drink etc, as well. Bintabaht was doing a relatively good trade at the time (and, as far as I remember didn't only consist of the Celtic Bar). Also Bernie's & that area was quite well populated.

I just couldn't be bothered stating all of my disagreements with your (rather rose-colured, IMO) statement. But, seeing as you insisted...

BTW, I live far less than 6km out of town. I rent my house from a Thai landlord (he's not rich, he's a sergeant in the Army). The whole area is very Thai & getting more & more built up with new apartments & shophouses. All occupied by Thais. In my area, I am one of precisely 3 farang. Everyone else is Thai.

Since we're splitting hairs , I never said ALL expats drank in All Nations or Celtic. Agreed, Bernies and the other bars around there were quite busy too.

Dunno what was so "rose tinted" about my original post. I just stated some facts: many of the housing estates, fast food joints and nightclubs in Hua Hin now didn't exist then, and there were fewer ex-pats.

I think I know where your place is, and if I'm right, it's on the road up towards Hin Lek Fai, west of the railway track.

That little patch between the railway track and the right turn up to Hin Lek Fai is getting built-up alright, and a lot of the places being built are aimed at Thais: shop-houses and one-bed apartments (alomost all of which will be rented).

However, if you travel just a little further west, up the hill, i.e once the sea comes into view, you hit farang land again. I know of a house up there with a 25,000,000 THB price tag.

All I'm saying is that I preferred Hua Hin before it became as built up and as popular with foreigners as it is today. I think it has lost a lot of its charm.

All of that said, it still is a pleasant place to visit, but it wouldn't be the first place I'd recommend people to see.

[Guess]

I sometimes wander if perhaps the decline in business ethics recently amongst the ex-pat community is linked to a declining amount of business. Perhaps people are stooping to underhand methods because money is not as easy to come by as it was.

I often wonder the same but I am more in favor of the opposite that the decline in business ethics that has risen dramatically since I have been in Hua Hin has ground business to a halt. In other words it has been proven that dishonesty and crime do not pay in the long or even medium term.

More likely is that both statements have some truth in them depending upon who they are applied to.

I know of a few cases of farangs who have established themselves here and established an aurora of professionalism and honesty about them and then later been exposed to be no more than sweet talking con men.

I have also seen an influx of failed crooked emigrants from Europe who would not last five minutes in their home towns but think they can come to Thailand and become organized crime syndicate bosses overnight.

However I still believe that the majority of both farangs and Thais that have come to Hua Hin to do some kind of business are actually honest and hard working and live by the principle that in business anywhere in the world honesty will always win.

I apologize to readers that don't understand what I mean but the regulars and the moderators know exactly who I am referring to.

If this is off topic I apologize again but the topic is fairly vague.

[Condoking]

However I still believe that the majority of both farangs and Thais that have come to Hua Hin to do some kind of business are actually honest and hard working and live by the principle that in business anywhere in the world honesty will always win.

Apologies, A tad too much vin rouge encouraged me to hit the wrong key, c'est la vie.

Fully agree with Monsieur Guess that honesty will prevail, unfortunately those whose credentials operate on the shady side of life tend to make a fortune and "up yours" to the honest joes left in their wake.