Sweet election pledges for Isaan

Local Hua Hin and regional Thailand news articles and discussion.
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buksida
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Post by buksida »

I don't see how clamping down on visas for tourists and non-immigrants, quadrupling the costs overnight, doubling the financial requirements and introducing an "elite" scheme for fatcats cannot be seen as xenophobic - regardless of your perceived American involvement.

But then maybe I'm stupid.

Additionally all clampdowns on foreign companies and land ownership have been enforced as a direct result of his sale of Shincorp to Singapore. Military junta's are xenophobic anyway but this lot are even more so becuase Thaksin shafted them and the Thai people, he's now swanning around in my country doing what he likes with his riches earned from this country.
have over 50% of the popular vote, i am still a GREAT believer in majority rule/DEMOCRACY
So am I, but at 200 baht a vote, its hardly democratic is it?

I can understand Isaaners being enamoured by him - he paid them, now all these new parties are scrambling to do the same thing ... "welcome back to democracy".

Reminds me of a song by The Who ... "Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss" The only difference is that the rural majority will get fooled again. But do they care if they're getting a free bottle of lao khao.
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Post by sargeant »

I agree a lot with what you say buksi but you leave out such minor details as land act section 4
I agree the company clampdown was instigated by shincorp but if it is illegal for mr T who inconveniently happens to be thai Then its certainly illegal for falangs or am i being silly to to expect equal treatment
200 baht compared to what Buksi you posted the op and i am pointing out that this lot are using thai land and taxpayers money as i said at least it was his 200 not somone elses
I agree the only losers will be the uneducated majority poor and only the colours on the deck chairs will change
I am also expecting things to get more difficult for farangs only time will tell
I ask the question is it better to be ripped of by a voted /elected minister or get ripped of by a buddy appointed one
from the lack of noise from some quarters it is obviously the latter :shock:
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buksida
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Post by buksida »

sargeant wrote:I agree a lot with what you say buksi but you leave out such minor details as land act section 4
Correct, farangs could never own land - but there were ways around it, a company could own land. Now it has been completely stamped out causing the property industry to collapse - guess what: less money into Thailand.
I agree the company clampdown was instigated by shincorp but if it is illegal for mr T who inconveniently happens to be thai Then its certainly illegal for falangs or am i being silly to to expect equal treatment
Agreed, Mr T just bought the issue into the spotlight thus causing further clampdowns and government xenophobia.
200 baht compared to what Buksi you posted the op and i am pointing out that this lot are using thai land and taxpayers money as i said at least it was his 200 not somone elses
Also agreed but really what percentage of Thais actually pay tax? There isnt even a system in place to govern it and they only currently target companies ... and farangs.

If the 200 baht was Thaksin's, where did he get it? From being an honest tax paying business man? If that were the case he'd still be here.
I agree the only losers will be the uneducated majority poor and only the colours on the deck chairs will change
I am also expecting things to get more difficult for farangs only time will tell
No argument with that, especially if Samak and those PPP fascists get elected.
I ask the question is it better to be ripped of by a voted /elected minister or get ripped of by a buddy appointed one
from the lack of noise from some quarters it is obviously the latter :shock:
Either way you're getting ripped off so who cares?
Last edited by buksida on Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by lomuamart »

I'll try and chip in here with my tuppence worth. Personally, I don't see much wrong at all with the proposals put forward by The Democrats in the OP.
It's all politics and damn lies etc etc, but all The Democrats are doing is laying out a manifesto for the poorer parts of the country.
It's done all over the world. For instance, in the UK, a party will promise more money for healthcare, more for education, they'll give sudsidies to the farmers when they claim to be "hard up", they'll redirect monies from the more affluent south to the less well-off areas in the north to help regeneration, they'll step in with monetary policies to try to help people out of debt - the list just goes on. And the money comes from the taxpayer - where else. How a party will spend our money is what determines our votes and eventually ends up appointing a government.
I won't bother going over old ground with TRT as a lot's been said already on the thread. But with Thaksin, he was using his own money to buy votes - that's illegal (mind you, I'm not saying that other parties were blameless). Here The Democrats are only talking about how they intend spending taxpayers money - and to reiterate, that's politics the world over.
As far as wiping out debts for the farmers is concerned, it was Mr T who put them in the situation in the first place. He was dishing money out like it was going out of fashion and most of us knew that that the poor old farmers up there in Isaan would be beholden to him, or successive governments, probably forever.
Of course The Democrat's announcements may lead to the same thing as well, but at least they're trying to get rid of the debt burden. And yes, it will and has to be the taxpayer who pays for it.
Finally, my missus tells me that The Democrats are promising "proper annual budgets", if elected. That would be a huge step in the right direction, in as much as a government here may actually report back to its people about how their money's been spent. The performance can then be matched against what they pledged to do pre-election.
So, to recap, I see nothing sinister in the original news article.
Don't forget that The Conservatives in the UK would never have come to power unless some 50% (I forget the actual figure) of working class voters opted for them. Every political party, everywhere in the world needs that - unless you've got a military junta in control :idea:
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Post by sargeant »

Now come on buksi one is playing a smidgin fast and loose methinks
1. You agree that farangs cannot own land but by forming shell companies to get round/avoid section 4 land act thats ok
2. I agreed and you agreed with me shincorp put it in the spotlight because Mr T formed shell companies for the purpose of avoiding the tax laws but thats not ok

to me that is exactely the same crime and it aint ok for either side

His 200 came from excessive profits on phonecalls heinous

Irrespective it is not what he did that i question it is well documented
it is the fact that this lot in power and their cronies the democrats are exactely the same but dont come in for a fleeting glance of criticism by falangs
double standards is how i view it neither side is right

I believe if you dont like corruption then you must highlight it wherever it raises its ugly head and not pick and choose

And Lomu you are bang on its politics lies and more damn lies
as for it being a manifesto for the poorer well we will just have to disagree on that i see it as a way of buying votes from people who they know will vote PPP or TRT
Steve G and me are very doubtfull about who ends up with this National park land as well maybe mrs T perchance :shock:
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Post by buksida »

You're like a bulldog with a bone that just wont let go eh, there are more opinions than just yours - try taking them on board now and then and planet sarge may become enlightened!

Before the loophole was closed a Thai company could be formed to own land - nothing wrong with that in my book.

Thaksin laundered 2 billion dollars without paying tax - theres a slight difference between that and Mr and Mrs Smith from Basingstoke wanting to buy a holiday home for 30 grand.

I don't know where your "rabid farangs" and "double standards" come into it, all politicians are full of crap in my book - be they TRT, Dems, or Monsta Raving Loonys - they'll say whatever the masses (Issan) want to hear before the election and shaft the population after it ... welcome to the real world!

And on that note I suggest we agree to disagree on this one.
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Post by sargeant »

lets just let it drop buksi i dont want argument discussion yes argument no

i will whole heartedly agree politicions are all pretty bluddy awful
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Post by STEVE G »

Just one point in defense of the people of Issan, certainly in the second election the reason they voted for TRT was because the income of the rural poor had increased by over 40% during the first half of the decade.
This was largely due to the ending of corrupt monopolized buying structures for agricultural produce, which then allowed the farmers to get a fairer price for their crops.

I happened to be in Issan during that election and money was being given out by all the major candidates, but to little effect.
Even to a Thai subsistence farmer, 200 bt is not a great deal of money, but the one political thing that effects a rural farmer is the price he gets for his crop, and it was this that they were voting for, not 200 bt.

I think that one of the things that make’s the North Eastern vote so crucial is that the people there live in tight knit communities and vote in the same way, so effectively the village headman and the older members of the community will decide who to vote for and then the rest will follow suit.
This means that it’s not so difficult to get the whole region voting as one.
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Post by Guess »

Two important points have come out of this discussion so far that need more focus and those are the improving of education and the improvement of infrastructure.

The argument about cash for vote versus debt payments and land offerings is valid but the second option is a far cry from the first. Most democratic parties around the world base their electoral platforms on promises of services and subsistences that equate to a cash sum. This is legal and normal. Paying cash directly for a vote is unethical and not normal although it has already been stated that this form of corruption is endemic in Asia.

The promises made by the Democrats, (and BTW just because I am one of the 'rabid anti TRT' farangs' that you refer to does not mean that I agree with everything that the Democrats propose), are all based around agriculture which I believe is short sighted. Just look at the ridiculous situation created by the European Community which could only be solved by paying people NOT to grow crops. Additionally just providing people with the ability to farm and introducing new varieties does not in itself lead to prosperity. The one thing that Isan is not short of is food. The produce has to be marketed and preferably exported. This benefits Isan and Thailand as a whole.

A much better idea IMO is to educate people with the subjects needed for the future with a view of turning Isan into a Hi tech industrial center. The Hi tech industries require many semi skilled workers which Isan could provide easily if a decent and relevant education was available.

The Chinese electronic rubbish industry is developing rapidly and now even major names are manufacturing in China and producing better quality products. If the Thai government does not recognize this they will lose their position in the world market. The signs are there already with many major foreign investors having second thoughts and projects being put on hold.

The new Thai government needs to address this area and put Thailand back in its position as a preferred supplier nation. At the moment Thailand is being overtaken by Vietnam and losing ground on its richer neighbors. Even Indonesia is considered as an alternative.
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Post by STEVE G »

I appreciate what you are saying Guess, but any change to hi-tech industries would have to be on a very long time-frame.
For this type of thing you need large capital with a small and highly educated workforce, but only small amounts of land and natural resources. This is pretty much the inverse of the situation you have in Issan at the moment.
For any change away from an agricultural based economy in the near term the area would be more suited to labour intensive manufacturing industries such as perhaps textiles or food processing.
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Post by BaaBaa. »

STEVE G wrote:For this type of thing you need large capital with a small and highly educated workforce
You both know far more than me on this subject but are we talking production lines here?

Mobile phone components etc?

Highly educated?

Genuine question.
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Post by STEVE G »

That’s a fair point BaaBaa, I was perhaps thinking of hi-tech more along the lines of a Thai Silicon Valley with the development and production of digital technology and software.
Certainly you could concentrate on purely the production side of electronics, like mobile-phones, and even more so if it was just assembly with the higher tech. components coming from elsewhere.
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Post by BaaBaa. »

It would seem the way forward to me, the Isaan people are nothing but hardworking, but I suppose its also the case for the chinese, who already have the business.
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Post by STEVE G »

Mind you, the in-laws have already started on tapioca and they have future plans for sugar-cane, but on the technology front I think realistically speaking it’ll be a while before they’re giving Bill Gates any sleepless nights!
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Post by lomuamart »

But, Issan people have been changing their crops for years.
One of the last times I was up country 5 years ago, there were loads of fields full of other things. They were other than rice.
My ex explained the whole thing. They've been doing it for ages.
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