VISA INFO - URGENT!

[klikster]

Also, the entry requirements to this wonderful country here are prone to change at a moment's notice, so it can be difficult to keep up with things.

Can you perhaps document some of these "moment's notice" changes of entry requirements? As long as I can remember, most "first world" citizens have been able to get a stamp on arrival .. like the one I got in '89. I believe it is the same today?

And anything beyond 30 days has required a visa. Same then .. same now.

As far as difficulty "keeping up with things", a visit to a consulate usually makes the requirements clear.

[lomuamart]

Well, here's a couple for starters.
Down in Penang last month and everyone I spoke to who were getting Tourist Visas needed a confirmed flight out of Thailand. As far as I'm aware, it's only Penang who are insisting on that at the moment.
Aranya Pratet/Poi Pet - you need proof of onward journey to get back in on a 30 day visa exempt stamp. Most people are just buying a 200 or 300 Baht bus journey somewhere. Again, I believe it's only Aranya doing this at the moment.
You're only allowed to stay in Thailand for 90 days in any 6 month period if you're on visa exempt stamps - mind you this has been in force since October 1st 2006.
Strictly speaking, you need to show 10,000 Baht cash if you're coming in on a visa exempt stamp. 20,000 Baht cash if on a Tourist or Non Immigrant visa. However, I've never heard of a westerner being pulled for this. Burmese and Cambodians have been asked for proof of funds and turned back if they havn't got them.
Pattaya Immigration have been asking for a confirmed flight out of Thailand when people go to extend their Tourist Visa for 30 days. If they don't have one, the extension's only for 7 days.
Admittedly, other instances revolve around annual extensions to Non Immigrant visas, particularly the "marriage/family income" requirements. The list of paperwork can seem endless. Whereas, you, your wife, marriage certificate, wife's ID card and proof of income/savings were adequate before, Immigration now want to see photos of the happy couple outside their house and inside it as well. BKK are apparantly asking for 4 separate photos now. HH seem to want to see money transferred every month from abroad into a Thai bank account. No good that someone might use the ATM to access their foreign money. BKK do not require this. I've spoken to them.
Oh, and Penang again. I only got a single entry Non Imm visa when I was there last month. So did everyone else who was picking up their passports that day. The agents assured us that people had been successful with multiple entry Non O's the day before. Penang will also only issue single entry Tourist Visas. Vientianne are giving double entries.
So, it's all well and good going to a consulate and asking their requirements for any particular visa, but you have to remember that what they've told you one day may not be applicable the next - literally. It's "up to them". They can and do interpret the Immigrations laws however they see fit. Personally, I reckon that quite a bit of the tightening of interpretation is because of overwork. When the laws changed on October 1st 2006, especially with regard to the 30 day visa exemp stamps, many long-termers here (who were not married to a Thai and weren't over 50 and therefore able to get a retirement extension) started to get Tourist Visas. They had no option if they wanted to remain in the Kingdom. Well, Penang didn't like that. Hundreds of people there every day. Answer - we'll give someone 3 consequtive single-entry visas and on that last occasion put a lovely red stamp in the passport telling that person not to apply again in Penang. They would refuse the request.
Now, most of the above is not written into Immigration law. At least I've never managed to find it. However, these things are happening to applicants.
I guess this is what I meant about having to keep up with things. It's so easy to go to such and such consulate expecting to get a,b or c and end up getting x,y or z. I had a good time in Penang, as I've reported, but the whole trip set me back some 15,000 Baht just to be allowed back in to be with my wife for 90 days. I'm sure that she feels that money could have been better spent here in Thailand, rather then in Malaysia and I'd agree with her. Roll on August when I'm 50 and hopefully get a retirement extension. No more messing around with visas then. Mind you, the requirements will probably have changed by then, so I'll have to try and keep my finger on the pulse

[lomuamart]

I'll be renewing my yearly stay next month and will be reporting back.
I'm here on the 400,000 baht grandfathered right.
Some people are of the opinion that this now doesn't exist.
We'll see!
Onlyme.

If you've had an extension based on the 400k savings prior to October 1st 2006 (and I guess you have), then you should be OK and get grandfathered. New applicants, after Oct 1st 2006) can only use the minimum 40k a month family income.
I have seen reports of people going to their local Imm office using the grandfathering rule and being told that it'll be accepted that year, but not the next. I don't know how reliable these reports are.
Good luck and let us know how you got on.
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2n ... p606EN.pdf
Section 7.17 is the one applicable to you.

[Foxxey1968]

Thanks to Lomu for trying to help following my post. To Nereus- My parents are seasoned travellers who have been to the Far East and beyond many times over the last 40 years. However, they have never been fortunate enough to stay more than 3 weeks before. Their understanding was that they could stay up to 60 days. They didnt just get on a flight and hope for the best. As for the comment re the "Visa Run". I think its pretty obvious they have to cross the border. like my mum would say-" If you can't say anything constructive, don't say anything at all".

[klikster]

Well, here's a couple for starters.
Down in Penang last month and everyone I spoke to who were getting Tourist Visas needed a confirmed flight out of Thailand. As far as I'm aware, it's only Penang who are insisting on that at the moment.
Aranya Pratet/Poi Pet - you need proof of onward journey to get back in on a 30 day visa exempt stamp. Most people are just buying a 200 or 300 Baht bus journey somewhere. Again, I believe it's only Aranya doing this at the moment.
You're only allowed to stay in Thailand for 90 days in any 6 month period if you're on visa exempt stamps - mind you this has been in force since October 1st 2006.
Strictly speaking, you need to show 10,000 Baht cash if you're coming in on a visa exempt stamp. 20,000 Baht cash if on a Tourist or Non Immigrant visa. However, I've never heard of a westerner being pulled for this. Burmese and Cambodians have been asked for proof of funds and turned back if they havn't got them.
Pattaya Immigration have been asking for a confirmed flight out of Thailand when people go to extend their Tourist Visa for 30 days. If they don't have one, the extension's only for 7 days.

There is a big difference between "Entry Requirements" and enforcement, which is what you seem to be talking about

Admittedly, other instances revolve around annual extensions to Non Immigrant visas, particularly the "marriage/family income" requirements. The list of paperwork can seem endless. Whereas, you, your wife, marriage certificate, wife's ID card and proof of income/savings were adequate before, Immigration now want to see photos of the happy couple outside their house and inside it as well. BKK are apparantly asking for 4 separate photos now. HH seem to want to see money transferred every month from abroad into a Thai bank account. No good that someone might use the ATM to access their foreign money. BKK do not require this. I've spoken to them.

Enforcement issue?

Oh, and Penang again. I only got a single entry Non Imm visa when I was there last month. So did everyone else who was picking up their passports that day. The agents assured us that people had been successful with multiple entry Non O's the day before. Penang will also only issue single entry Tourist Visas. Vientianne are giving double entries.

This is a change in "Entry Requirements"?

So, it's all well and good going to a consulate and asking their requirements for any particular visa, but you have to remember that what they've told you one day may not be applicable the next - literally. It's "up to them". They can and do interpret the Immigrations laws however they see fit.

Which has nothing to do with "Entry Requirement"

Now, most of the above is not written into Immigration law.

BINGO!

Rant, rather than facts, duly noted.

[lomuamart]

Surprised you saw the post as a rant, Klister. It wasn't intended as such. All the examples given are factual.
We're maybe talking at cross purposes, as you've intimated. Your first post seems to refer to those visiting for short holidays, or even longer ones of a few months on Tourist Visas. Here, I'd agree with you that there's been little change to entry requirements, other than an overhaul of Imm law on Oct 1st 2006.
However, for those staying long term here and doing either 30 day or Tourist visa border runs to neighbouring countries, there have been changes. OK, if not in the letter of the law, then certainly in the interpretation of it. For large numbers of people, consular requirements to obtain a visa and therefore entry to The Kingdom have changed and do tend to alter from time-to-time. I've given examples above.
If someone's done 3x30 day visa exempt runs and then goes to Penang to get a Tourist Visa, they're not going to get one unless they show a confirmed flight out of Thailand. Ok, once they've got the visa, it's just a matter of showing it at the border to get the initial 60 days, but if they hadn't had a flight out, the visa wouldn't have been issued. Therefore no entry to Thailand and there will be none for approximately 3 months until that person can come in on another 30 day stamp.
Those crossing back in at Aranya need to show an onward journey or they don't get entry. In my book, these are changes to entry/visa requirements that are being applied at specific consulates and border posts.
Again, admittedly the other stuff I posted does refer to making yourself legal once here in Thailand on the correct visa, rather than getting the initial entry.

[rosievictoria]

I thank you lomuamart for all your information.
Last year you were a great help when I had lots of Visa questions.
This is nothing to do with UK visas but you might like to file it away in your "keeping up with things".
I usually apply a month or so for my 90 day visa to Thailand.
They have changed the goal posts here in Australia and now you must apply and be stamped 90 days before you are to arrive in Thailand.
I will arrive on 13th June 2008 and must present all paperwork,money etc on 14th March 2008 at the Royal Thai Consulate in Melbourne.
Also you have to sign that if the visa is not granted there will be no refund of the $90.
As this is a different application form than the one I filled in last year it states on the back that ALL visa applications must be submitted no later than 3 months before travelling.
your knowledge and good works is very appreciated.
rosievictoria

[lomuamart]

rosievictoria,
That's madness. A person from Aus who wants a Non Imm or Tourist visa (at least if they're applying at Melbourne) need to do so 90 days in advance? People who are working and decide, because of their work, they'll take a holiday for a couple of months, or those who are retired and just fancy getting away "next week" for a while can't do so now.
I've never known any Thai Embassy or consulate ever take more than 48 hours to process a visa application. I'm sure there are some pretty inefficient places around the world, but Melbourne dosn't strike me as being one of those.
Obviously, I'm sure you're correct and I will file that gem of information away for others, should they ask the question on the forum.
Thanks.

[Nereus]

I thank you lomuamart for all your information.
Last year you were a great help when I had lots of Visa questions.
This is nothing to do with UK visas but you might like to file it away in your "keeping up with things".
I usually apply a month or so for my 90 day visa to Thailand.
They have changed the goal posts here in Australia and now you must apply and be stamped 90 days before you are to arrive in Thailand.
I will arrive on 13th June 2008 and must present all paperwork,money etc on 14th March 2008 at the Royal Thai Consulate in Melbourne.
Also you have to sign that if the visa is not granted there will be no refund of the $90.
As this is a different application form than the one I filled in last year it states on the back that ALL visa applications must be submitted no later than 3 months before travelling.
your knowledge and good works is very appreciated.
rosievictoria

I understand that which you have written, but, as far as I know, there is no "money" requirement with a tourist visa. Last year you wrote about applying for an "OA" visa, are you sure that they are not just asking with this type of visa?
Lomu, if correct, it just reinforces the other points that you have made previously.

[lomuamart]

I was thinking that as well, Nereus, but couldn't remember which visa rosievictoria was applying for.
If it was the OA, then it's quite possible that a police clearance report would take some time to process. Medical shouldn't be a problem, time wise.
Still, when those police and medical certificates are done, surely it shouldn't take more than a couple of days to process the visa (as long as all the other paperwork is in order)? Maybe the Melbourne consulate is advising people to start getting their paperwork in order 90 days before applying for OA?
Are you you sure you've got that right, rosievictoria? Particularly with regard to tourist visas and even Non Immigrant O's.
OA's, whether single or multiple entry do require much more time to get, but only to get the paperwork together in your home country - I think!!

[Nereus]

Don`t know about Melbourne, but when I got a police clearance in Perth it took 10 minutes at the local Police Station, although it may have changed now.
Looks like it may be just another case of the indivdual Consulate making up their own rules again?

[klikster]

Surprised you saw the post as a rant, Klister. It wasn't intended as such. All the examples given are factual.

I think what I objected to most was the "at a moment's notice" portion of your post which would actually seems to me to be a rant.

It's pretty common to hear folks who have visa experience that are somewhat inconvenient to make comments like yours. And just because your experience in Penang were factual (actually, some of the information you conveyed seem to have been hearsay), does not mean that "entry requirements" were changed at all and certainly not "at a moment's notice".

Entry requirements are one thing, and the issuance or denial of visas are something entirely different. As I understand, no consulate is required to issue a visa, nor is any immigration official at a Thai port of entry required to allow entry even if the applicant is holding a valid visa.

Thailand's entry requirements for all types of visas have changed ever so gradually, not "at a moment's notice". You seem to have run afoul of a new policy concening tourist visas and the enforcement of rules that had not been previosly enforced, that's all.

[lomuamart]

You're right there, klister.
I've been mixing up entry requirements with the documentation needed to get in.
Having been here for 10 years, it's been fun to experience being sent back from the Malaysian border at Sungai Kolok, having 1,2 stamped on passport on 30 day entry stamps and being politely told by Ranong that I've got one more and that's it. Going to Penang with a wealth of information and still only getting 90 days.
But you're quite correct these are visa matters, not entry requirements. However - no visa, no entry (that is increasingly the case around this region). I tend to look at it that way.
However, I havn't needed a Tourist visa for years. I've been happily married to my Thai wife for a while now. A Non Immigrant O is what I can apply for and that is what I got. (Not multi-entry, but c'est la vie).
I've never had a really bad experience at Immigration anywhere here. And over the years, I've been to Ranong, Sadao, Mae Sai and Arayna Pratet.
That's all, other than the owners of my hotel in Georgetown last month asked on two occasions whether I would talk to young travelers about their Tourist visas. All I could say was that the 3/4 people I'd spoken to before had confirmed that they needed a flight out of Thailand to get that visa.
Again, I accept that there have been no major changes to entry requirements since Oct 1st 2006, but getting the right visa in neighbouring countries to get back in have, and always will, change.

[STEVE G]

It sounds like they are enforcing the return ticket rule at land border crossings just to hassle people doing visa runs. I come in through BKK on a tourist visa exemption every two months and I can only remember once having to show a return ticket. Because I always have one I put it on the counter for them, but most of the time it just gets ignored.

[lomuamart]

STEVE G,
Have you ever been here for a total of 90 days in any six month period when you're using the 30 day visa exempt stamps?