How Do You Handle Living Here?

[Spitfire]

Just have to remember that you couldn't be in a more different country that the one you left. Yes, it can be problematic staying here with all the contemp that you come across, but remember the things that made you decide to leave your home country in the first place. Try not to get to involved in things with people that would not be able comprehend your point of view. A lot of Asia is like this, concentrate on the positive things you like and to hell with the rest. Free your mind, you ass will follow.

[Korkenzieher]

Spitfire,

I'm curious about the comment 'remember the things that made you decide to leave your home country'. It sounds like there is an assumption that people leave (whichever country, but I think the UK was implied) because of negatives (perhaps the weather, who knows) rather than because of positives (job opportunities, relationships etc.).

I would like first off to say that I think, very generally, that expats fall into one of those two camps.

For myself, I was offered an opportunity that was just too good to turn down (in Vienna). I never particularly considered that I was leaving the UK, let alone for good, just that I was going (on an adventure...) to Austria for a while. Over the years, I have found that I have received more offers in mainland Europe, than the UK, and haven't really returned in any significant sense since 1992.

The UK is obviously still in my heart, but it is a different place than the one I left, and I am a different person to the one who left. My view of the world is broader, and I like to think also deeper. More to the point, I did not leave the UK to come to Thailand, I left Germany (after 13 years, about half of my adult life and almost all my post-university life, even though right now I am in the UK tidying up loose ends). So in the final analysis, returning 'home' for me, at the moment, would be to Germany, not the UK.

So, and anyone feel free to answer, which is it? did you run-away or soar-away.

[Spitfire]

Fair point, just generalising, everyone has their reasons and positions. I agree that it has changed a lot in the last 10 years. Many people are leaving for whatever reason.

[Korkenzieher]

I have to admit, as I sit here in Yorkshire, that almost everybody I speak to wants to leave. Most cannot understand why I would consider coming back (although I am not, the idea isn't that bad - I like the area I'm in (my only Sister lives here), and if I wanted to come back to the UK, I'd have no issue with being here). Just for the record, the reason I don't consider the UK as an option at the moment is that there is just too much out there still to do. It has a feel of 'been there, done that; Next!' for me.

It became apparent to me years ago on the Costas that a lot of 'expats' left to get away from something - they were trying to leave problems behind (It was on the Costa Blanca - my German-American ex's family have a villa there, so it was a common destination for us). The whole attitude surprised me at the time, because I was living in Frankfurt, where most of the expats are very much in the rat-race for the long haul, and generally winning it! But the more I went to popular retirement and re-settlement places, the more it seemed that the most common reason for being there was disillusionment (which probably isn't a word, or if it is, it's American ...) with some aspect or other of the UK. I didn't get the same feeling then from the Germans, but I think it has increased over the last decade or so. I would say that the sad thing is that it was clear that most of those people 'running away' succeed only in bringing their issues with them, to a slightly better climate.

[Jockey]

where to live ? where to die ?

[Korkenzieher]

'fraid it is increasingly the latter of the two . I am a mere 46, but one becomes aware, that there are only so many more leaps into the unknown that are going to be possible.

Wahaaay. I qualified for a chilli... (small things amuse simple minds!)

[margaretcarnes]

Oh dear Edwin - I thought Danes were pretty laid back as well! You're sadly out of date about England - we accept everyone with open arms do we? Danes yes, of course we do, after all most of us are descended from you! But theres a huge groundswell of feeling here now about England making too much provision for other nationalities, like having to give up school religious assemblies for fear of upsetting the ethnic minorities for example. Like having to have government offices signs in 20 odd languages. Like having to be so flippin politically correct, while watching immigrants milk our state welfare system that WE have paid for.
I admire the Thais for sticking to their guns and protecting their national identity - and land. But as for them not wanting to learn, I don't agree. The kids I knew were polite, curious, and keen to learn from farangs. Maybe the education system itself could give them more, but thats a government issue and I don't think it's reflected by the Thai on the street.
BTW I'm heading for Jutland in 2 weeks and look forward to a few days of your wonderful pastries and hospitality

[Randy Cornhole]

Basically I see it like like this - either you can live with the way of life over here and ALL it entails, or you can't and you go home... Thats the bottom line.
If you have doubts then you shoudn't be here, as you are obviously not ready....
I don't mean to sound harsh but it seems that simple to me...

[edwinadanish]

Dear All

I appreciate the advice and it is true.... I need to chill out a times when the local ways ruffle my feathers but...

Do I sense that the message here is that to live in Thailand, one has to forget:

Morals
Beliefs
Instincts
Experiencees

and simply say the mantra:

"this is the ay it is here and there is nothing I can do about it so I won't even try"

I cannot accept that most of those advocating apathy now have been like that all their lives. I respect everyone's right to their beliefs - both the locals and those commenting here but it is not about that at all.

It is about standing up and saying what you believe in. We all know this is a nice country but can't we make it even nicer? Are we not allowed to have an opinion? Are we not allowed to offer constructive advice?

I was brought up to believe that if you care you say something. If you say nothing you either have no opinion at all, don't care, are scared to speak or are dead!

I realise that my issues and observations pale into insignificance compared to some of the things happening in the world right now but jsut looka ropund at all the pople who still have blood in thier veins - Burmese and Tibetan to name just two - and they have the courage and commitment to spoeak out for what they want.

Those who voice their opinions peacefully for constructive change have my utmost respect......

The article I posted from the Bangkok Post about the kidnapped lawyer was jst that - someone trying to change things by speaking out...

The biggest censor in the world is China and it is being forced by public pressure to change (as is Burma) yet Thailand is increasing its censorship laws.... Who cares? We're ok - we're just happy to be alive in this beautiful country. There's something to be said for that if you can do it - I can't just quite yet!

Thank you for the reassurance from someone that there are some who want to learn in this country - I obviously have met the wrong people. I met many graduates as well as non-graduates and never saw any motivation but I am glad to hear there are some....

The misundersanding is that I was not clear before. I can handle things here at a superficial level but my soul and conscisnce tell me it is wrong when I see a baby being held hgh on a motorbike by rpoud parents waiting to fall off and die... I have never said anything to the parents I see doing this so maybe I am becoming Thai. Should I be proud of this?!

[Francois]

Dear All

[Cut]

Should I be proud of this?!

Edwina,

Something in your writings are hurting me.

The Thais never asked you to come. If you come to Thailand, you have to cope with their way of life.

I have a very strange feeling about you. It seems you are like a missionary (an evangelist ?), somewhere a bit fundamentalist. You have your own opinion and you would like to impose it and change their way of life

Try first to understand them. Do not forget that you are coming here, with your strong purchasing power whilst an average monthly income is generally speaking less than 100 euros. In other words, they will buy a motorbike because they cannot afford to buy a car for their family. The price for a Helmet is around 500 THB. If it is nothing for us, this is a huge amount of money for them.

[lindosfan1]

Well said Francois I came here and have accepted the Thai way of life (sometimes through gritted teeth but I would not dream of trying to alter that way of life

[crazy88]

Edwina

The baby has to get on the motorbike early in life .By the time he is six he will have to drive his brothers and sisters to school with grandma on the back,sitting sidesaddle, chewing betelnut and holding the family chickens .

By the time he is 12 he will have to do all of this one-handed at high speed so he can talk on his mobile .one of the sisters usually has a poodle on her lap by this stage plus her own mobile glued to her ear . Not an easy task ferrying that lot about .Good job he started early because alcohol is going to be a factor in a couple of years .





Try not to let it all get to you .

Happy Songkran

Crazy 88

[dtaai-maai]

Edwina

The baby has to get on the motorbike early in life .By the time he is six he will have to drive his brothers and sisters to school with grandma on the back,sitting sidesaddle, chewing betelnut and holding the family chickens .

By the time he is 12 he will have to do all of this one-handed at high speed so he can talk on his mobile .one of the sisters usually has a poodle on her lap by this stage plus her own mobile glued to her ear . Not an easy task ferrying that lot about .Good job he started early because alcohol is going to be a factor in a couple of years .





Try not to let it all get to you .

Happy Songkran

Crazy 88

Fair enough post, crazy, a lot of truth and a good chuckle, but I think Francois hit the nail on the head - I can't say Edwina's posts are causing me pain, but I get the impression that living in Thailand might be causing her pain, and they are making me wonder if she's in the right place. Some of the earlier replies made me think, "Take it easy, guys, give the lady a break," but now I'm not so sure. We've all chosen Thailand as a place to live, most of us (not including me, by the way) having been regular visitors for some time before. So we have some idea, at least, of what we are letting ourselves in for. Good and bad. And the simple fact is that there are plenty of both. Sometimes Thailand is a hugely frustrating place to live. It's certainly full of surprises.

There are many things in Thailand that raise my eyebrows, quite a few that irritate me, some that make me pretty angry. The simple fact is that I can do nothing about most of them, any more than I could reprimand a teenager (who I didn't know) swearing in public in the UK. The one thing we can't do is tell people that Our Way is the Right Way. By all means, let's have a good moan among ourselves and let off some steam, but let's not kid ourselves that we're going to change anything.

I'm 51 years old, I'm not retired, and I'm far from wealthy. I've lived in a few different countries during my lifetime and visited many more. I've had many ups and a few downs. Here and now I'm happier than I've ever been, and this is where I see my future. That might change if the cons start to outweigh the pros, but it really is a very personal choice - up to you.

[Wanderlust]

Dear All

I appreciate the advice and it is true.... I need to chill out a times when the local ways ruffle my feathers but...

Do I sense that the message here is that to live in Thailand, one has to forget:

Morals
Beliefs
Instincts
Experiencees

and simply say the mantra:

"this is the ay it is here and there is nothing I can do about it so I won't even try"

I cannot accept that most of those advocating apathy now have been like that all their lives. I respect everyone's right to their beliefs - both the locals and those commenting here but it is not about that at all.

It is about standing up and saying what you believe in. We all know this is a nice country but can't we make it even nicer? Are we not allowed to have an opinion? Are we not allowed to offer constructive advice?

I was brought up to believe that if you care you say something. If you say nothing you either have no opinion at all, don't care, are scared to speak or are dead!

(snip)

The misundersanding is that I was not clear before. I can handle things here at a superficial level but my soul and conscisnce tell me it is wrong when I see a baby being held hgh on a motorbike by rpoud parents waiting to fall off and die... I have never said anything to the parents I see doing this so maybe I am becoming Thai. Should I be proud of this?!

edwinadanish,
Others have already given their thoughts and good advice, and I think all of us have had the same feelings of horror when we see certain things here, such as your example of a baby on a motorcycle, but you are forgetting one very fundamental thing with regards to Thailand and the behaviour of many of it's people, and that is their unshakeable belief in their version of Buddhism - they make merit by doing various good deeds like giving food to the monks, they go to the temple and carry out various rituals, and they will for sure get their vehicle blessed by the requisite number of monks; on top of that is the fatalistic element which many Thais have, that they will die when it is their time, and there is no point in trying to dodge it - in some ways this is what I most like about Thailand and what can be the most frustrating thing in the world at the same time - they don't (in general) plan for the future, only for today; this means they very rarely have the troubles of the world on their mind, so smiling comes easily, but more often than not they get caught out tomorrow! I believe this is what all the 'bad' things you comment on stems from, and once you understand that, it is a lot easier to deal with many things here.

P.S. Everyone please note that this is a generalisation which does not apply to every Thai, but certainly to many, particularly the poorer, less educated Thais.

[buksida]

Do I sense that the message here is that to live in Thailand, one has to forget:

Morals
Beliefs
Instincts
Experiencees

I agreed with a lot of your points in the first post but this one I have to question.

Morals : Thai people have deep morals for their families, something us in the west can learn from because we've come to rely on our governments to take care of us when we get old. Doesn't happen here.

Beliefs : How many Buddhists have you met that don't believe in anything?

Instincts : Its called survival which is why they often do things that we view as "crazy" or "stupid" by our own western standards.

Experiences : That one we can just group into the "life" category, we all have them and they're all different. Maybe you should consider your time in this country as an "experience" learn from it and move on ... or stay on and learn more!

..... did I really just say all that